And what course of action, pray tell, do Mesdames Joyce Miller and Arinada Navarro urge upon us?
- Rick
This required a Pit thread?
OK, in the midst of the carnage, we have found two people (among others, I’m sure) who have enough moral fortitude to stick to a pacifist philosophy, even though they, themslves, have suffered loss.
One does not have to agree with them to refrain from getting mad at them. In a way, they have more courage than the hijackers: the hijackers got to believe they were going to heaven with no more Earthly worries; these folks are going to be suffering insults and abuse for weeks or months or longer from people who simply want anyone to be mad at.
Agreed, it shouldn’t be in the Pit. But while we’re here, this is what those two people actually said:
FWIW, I agree with them. I do believe a measured, carefully targeted response is appropriate and I don’t believe that should include the bombing of civilian Afghani’s at all.
Specifically target the training camps again, if you wish (although I think we can assume there’s no one there), with evidence, find and kill Bin Ladin (while trying to ‘extract’ him) but the majority of the Afghan people are victims now of the Taliban as they were of the Soviet invasion before that.
Bombing those people makes us no better than the terrorists.
I’m not mad at anyone - I just felt like posting an example of stupidity.
It’s in the pit because I expect some moron to flame me over it.
Oh and by the way, what “personal loss” was suffered by Joyce Miller? (Besides having been mislead by a confusing ballot)
“It will only kill more people”?
THAT’S THE FUCKING POINT!!
Stupidity knows no tragedy.
They kill our people.
We kill their people.
They kill more of our people.
We kill more of their people.
They kill even more of their people.
We kill even more of their people.
Eventually there’s not going to be any more people left.
Unfortunately, history is replete with examples of people who are only encouraged by what they would perceive as the weakness of doing nothing in response to attack.
Ghandi’s approach worked reasonably well in India; the British were, at a basic level, too decent to continually assault citizens who were not fighting back.
However, if, for example, Hitler’s Germany or Papa Doc’s Haiti had been in charge of India, I am convinced Ghandi would be a mere footnote in an obituary somewhere. Turning the other cheek is not always a useful approach.
- Rick
How is anything you posted an example of stupidity? This is not a flame; it’s a serious question. Ms. Navarro has suffered a horrible loss, and she has the guts to stick to her pacifist philosophy. This isn’t stupidity, it’s consistency.
Only if you assume no limits to the cycle. And only if you assume that all else is equal, which it isn’t.
Doves are just another breed of pigeon. I like pigeons, sometimes they’re the best bird for the job. Right now we need hawks.
Nobody rational wants continued suffering of civilians, whether in the US or elsewhere. We will be a target whether we act or not. But if we act, and destroy or capture large numbers of terrorists, supporters, and equipment, we’ve made the world a safer place.
Under no circumstances should we carpet-bomb any nation, whether terrorists reside within its borders or not. Find those responsible, and remove them from society. Remove them from existence if you must. Dead innocents (or at least dead non-combatants) are a horrible thing, no matter what flag flies over their heads – our forces will be scrupulous in keeping “collateral damage” to a minimum, maybe avoiding it altogether.
Punishing criminals doesn’t stop crime – but it stops those particular criminals from harming anybody ever again. If it makes some other group stop and think, “wow, we’ve gone too far and we’re doomed if we stick our noses out the door ever again,” that’s good too.
I could keep on about this, repeating myself with new words, but there’s no point. Ms. Navarro and Ms. Miller are entitled to their stances, and are as justified in their beliefs as we are who are howling for blood. We may think these women are wrong, but respect their feelings even if we don’t share them.