Obviously should be:
Polycarp said:
Yuppers … I’ve seen it and it isn’t pretty :(.
Monty, ah yes Monty … thank you for reminding me why I never responded to your thread before ;). Against my better judgment I think I will reply to part of this thread, but I must say: I have no problem with politely discussing issues and even disagreeing passionately, but sheesh! You really need to drop the blatant attempts at accusing me of lying and slandering the Lord. I sincerely hope that all you’re doing is overreacting.
Having said that … like I said, I will briefly respond to a few of your comments:
You must not’ve been reading for long ;). I’ve said this before, certainly back in the Christianity & Love thread and I believe elsewhere. Sorry Sherlock, it’s not that big of a secret ;).
It amazes me that you’re amazed. Seriously. Continue reading…
Okay, here’s a challenge not just to you but to everyone on this board. Has anyone ever READ the famous passage in which Jesus said “Judge not, lest you be judged”? Has anyone ever studied it? Anyone ever read the context? Anyone ever realize that it’s the single most warped and abused scripture in all the Bible?
“Judge not” does not = “Be ye stupid”.
There is a dramatic difference in judgment and discernment. So Monty, someone comes up to you that you don’t know and says, “My wife’s having a baby and my car won’t start! Would you give me the keys to your car so I can drive her to the hospital?” I somehow think you would not give a complete stranger your car keys before you knew more about the situation. But how dare you! He SAID his wife was pregnent, how can you possible judge him and assume he’s lying? Who are you to judge?
That is the ridiculous type of application this verse has been used for over and over … ironically enough, by people who claim that they don’t believe the Bible is the Word of God. For people who don’t believe in the Bible, they sure loooooovvvvee that scripture!
Here are two scriptures about discernment. The first one, by the way, is Matt 7:6 … the verse right after the famous “don’t judge” passage! (Emphasis mine)
I can just imagine the reaction to Jesus’ statement: “How can you judge and call someone a dog or a pig!?! How dare you judge them that way!”
No, the Bible makes it plain that you are to use discernment. The Bible also makes it plain that there are MANY people (not a few, but MANY) that THINK they will go to heaven, but will not go to heaven. Check this out (emphasis mine):
True. As you can see from the passage above, it’s not how most people think. It’s not “are you particularly bad or are you particularly good”. It’s “do you know God personally”.
tracer said:
For the record, I was surprised when I found this one day as well! I didn’t realize it was in the Bible either. By the way, sorry I made you search for the reference!! I thought I had put it in there, but I obviously forgot.
Well, but consider the times. They didn’t have a persecution complex … they were in the real deal!
LOL! Even God gets sued. Well, to me this comes down to one thing … knowing the character of God. The Bible says if you ask for bread, He doesn’t give you a stone. He’s not into bait-and-switch techniques. He’s not a salesman at all, although I’ll admit (sadly) that Christians throughout the ages have reduced the gospel to a sales pitch. But God isn’t that way. For example, He doesn’t water down the tough parts of the gospel to make it comfortable for people. He tells it like it is. If you want to see what I mean in action, check out Jesus, who was God hanging out on planet earth for 33 years. He was totally unfraid to make waves. Anyway, my point is: Jesus was a straight-talker. He’s not Bill Clinton. He knows what the meaning of ‘is’ is ;).
I read Poly’s statement as addressing
in which he was obviously talking about you, FoG.
My thread? That’s rich! Oh, that’s rich! 'Twas my question, one which was obviously easily answered either “yes” or “no.” That is, easily answered thus by someone of integrity and honesty.
How about answering the entire query? After all, it was only two or three short questions.
Evidently you do, because I’m not the only poster here who’s asked you questions you studiously ignore and then, just for kicks apparently, answer something that had nothing to do with the question actually asked!
Right back atcha.
Attempts? Heck, it’s not an attempt. You lied, I observed it, and I commented on said observation. Again, I’m not the only one to have commented on said observation. You lied–or you don’t recall that you continued to assert that your fave flick was a chart topper when shown that it wasn’t? How about the bit about the Christians in this land being persecuted or being a minority?
Just pointing out the truth, “friend.” After all, “Ye shall know the truth, and it shall set ye free.” {John 8:32}
Nothing like getting straight to the point; and that’s exactly what we’ve seen of you here…nothing like it.
I really haven’t visited that 3 parter too much (or at all–if I did, it obviously wasn’t a memorable experience for me).
Like I said, nothing like getting to the point.
Not only have I read that passage, I’ve read every single passage in the Old & New Testaments, every single passagein the Quran, every single passage in the Book of Mormon, every single passage in the Doctrine & Covenants, every single passage in the Pearl of Great Price, not to mention a few other great holy books of other faiths. Exactly how does this fact equate to a rationale for your penchant of deciding on your own, as opposed to letting the Lord as the Bible puts it, decide on who’s who?
Care to explain yourself, then?
Or better yet, the Christian thing to do would be, “Yo, dude; hop in. I’ll drive; you’re obviously in too much panic.”
I certainly hope you’re not insinuating here that (a) I don’t believe the Bible, or (b) that I haven’t read the thing. If either (a) or (b), you’re sadly mistaken. Our previous “godly friend” (Arg220/Zion) tried that stunt and another poster explained the truth to him very succintly.
How’s about we just apply this to you? After all, the proof on this message board is that you not only fibbed, but held to that fib for a while…then weaseled on fessing up.
Um, Jesus is deity, remember? Contrary to your obvious high esteem of yourself, you are not.
So just maybe you’re not really heading upwards, hey?
There’s a cute bit in the Quran for you:
{Quoted from memory; hard copy of my Quran is in storage still.}
I’ve noticed one thing at which you are suberb–missing the point. My point in quoting that scripture was that although Paul disagreed with what those folks was doing, he still considered them Christians. Anyway, there’s more than one denomination of Christianity who thinks that salvation is based on two things.
Why I’m bothering, I have no idea…
Oh, yes - Christians never wield passages of the Bible out of context as weapons. Nope. Never. Not a one. :rolleyes:
Does the Bible also tell you who will ultimately decide who gets into Heaven and who doesn’t? Unless your name is “God” or “Jesus Christ,” I’d bet a whole pile of money it’s not “FriendofGod,” yet you have indicated you seem to have the inside track on who will and who won’t (or who really “knows Him” and who doesn’t).
“Hypocrite” doesn’t even begin to cover it.
Esprix
sigh Like I said, responding to Monty was against my better judgment and now I am reminded why. Monty, just so there’s no misunderstanding, I will deliberately ignore your future posts unless you choose to change your tone (although I seriously doubt you will care). Your false accusations, harsh tone, and insults are no way to have an honest debate.
Don’t feel bad, Monty, 'cause you’re in good company - he’s been ignoring me for months. 
Esprix
Hmmm. It seems like Monty has a history of calling folks liars.
vanilla wrote:
You mean, folks besides FoG? Anyone in particular?
Anyone seen Jesus of Montreal, a secular film with a Christian theme that swept the Canadian equivalent of the Oscars?
Tracer:
Just liars, in particular. Besides FoG, I can think of two straight off: Bluebird/Smilingjaws, who lied consistently about the LDS; and ARG220/Zion, who really put credibility to the test with the whole leaven is sin thing (not to mention a few of his more inane rants).
The only reason, apparently, I have “a history of calling people liars” is that liars are people. That of course, does not mean to imply that all people are liars; however, all liars are people.
Saying “Monty has a history of calling people liars” is like saying “that umpire has a history of calling three strikes.”
FoG, if I might ask a few questions:
1.) Some time ago you delivered a false prophecy which you attributed to God. I pointed to the relevant Scripture which said that your prophecy came from Satan. Do you admit that your prophecy came from Satan?
2.) You have been asked more than once whether Pat Robertson is a real Christian, and whether you support his behavior. Is he? Do you?
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I haven’t seen any response from you on either of these questions, ever. The more you ignore them, the more you look like you’re just being weaselly and dishonest. Moreover, by ignoring #1, you are arguably dodging a responsibility to warn your fellow Christians against acting as mouthpieces of Satan.
Please answer the questions, FoG.
-Ben
Cloud Ten Pictures: Well, we DID get Clarence Gilyard of Matlock and Walker, Texas Ranger for Left Behind. (He was on CBS This Morning today.) It’s true, we admit, Walker is going off the air in May 'cause Chuck Norris is, well, tired of it. But Gilyard is a current TV star! Get it?! They ain’t all washed-up! Right? Right? whimper
Well, if you want my two cents, I think its up to God if Pat Robertson is a christian.
He sure doesn’t sound like one when he says inane things; truly idiotic things.
Don’t have a site, trust me.
I myself have never seen a "christian " movie.
I’ve seen The Last Temptation of Christ, so I guess I could say I’ve seen a “Christian” movie.
I’ve also seen every episode of Davey and Goliath – I was a kid in the pre-cable-TV era, and there was nothing else on TV on Sunday mornings except televangelists. I figured, hey, if I had to get preached to, I much preferred getting preached to by a claymation kid and his talking dog than a real-life preacher with a Southern accent so thick he pronounced “scriptures” as though it had 4 syllables. 
Film about a bunch of actors hired by a church to produce Easter’s ‘Passion Play’–the play depicting the life of Christ, often focusing on the crucifixion and ressurection.
None of the actors claims to be a card-carrying Christian.
Through the course of the play, THEY ARE ALL SAVED!!!
Just kidding.
Through the course of the play, each player addresses the significance, or lack thereof, of the project they’re undertaking, and how it affects them.
During the course of the film, the actor portraying Christ unwittingly experiences several direct parallels to Christ’s own journey–but subtler than HEY JESUS DID THIS NOW THIS GUY IS TOO!!!
I won’t give away the ending.
If Christian films were approached with this type of attention to direction and performance, relying more on directors and actors dedicated to their craft and less on ‘This guy is a name, who cares if he can act,’ perhaps they wouldn’t cause so many eyes to roll.
B-List names trying to push a script already fighting for suspension of disbelief hamstrings a story even before it hits the screen–(a’la the Mr. T factor).
Instead of spending the money on special effects, spend it on actors who we’d pay money to see read the ingredients off a box of Corn Flakes.
See what happens then.
Pariah wrote:
Replace “Christian” in that sentence with “Hollywood”, and it would be just as valid.
Amen, Pariah.
It seems many people get upset when Christian movies are panned by the critics. All too often, folks fall back on “they’re just out to get Christians.”
Nope, nope, nope. Sorry, Charlie, but there really are some objective criteria for determining the quality of a film. Being Christian does not automatically make it good.
“Christian movies aren’t perfect–just forgiven their hideous production values.”
FoG:
How about answering these questions, preferably in this thread so folks don’t have to chase all over the board to get the answer (if they actually get answered)?
-
Have you studied Theology?
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If so, where?
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If so, and you named where, was that place accredited?
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If so, by whom accredited?
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To which denomination do you belong?
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Does that denomination have ministers, priests, or preachers?
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If so, are you officially one of those ministers, priests, or preachers?
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If not, then, pray tell, what exactly are your qualifications for your current mission?
If you don’t want to answer just because I asked them, perhaps another poster would be so kind as to C&P these questions into their own posting, and that way, you’ve no excuse for avoiding the issue.
There is no mention of a rapture in the book of Revelation. Also, the “Antichrist” as described in the book closely fits the details of the “myth of Nero’s return” that was prevalent in some early Christian communities. This belief held that Nero (who had been known to use Christians as human candles, among other sadistic exploits), whom was believed dead, would reappear, reclaim his authority, and embark upon a campaign to persecute Christians.
The problem with obsessing about the “end times” is that such a mindset lends itself to what Dietrich Bonhoeffer called “cheap grace”…because hey, God’s gonna pluck us out of this messy world when the evil gets just a bit too intense…that’s a comforting thought, but it’s kind of a shallow theology.
Another problem that occurs with literary interpretation, and especially with apocalyptic literature, is that allegorical interpretation ends up totally butchering the text. If you’re convinced that Revelation is supposed to be about one world totalitarian government, you’re going to read every verse through that lens, and bend every cryptic part through allegory to serve your ideological purposes. Allegorical interpretation that pays no attention to historical criticism, form criticism, and source criticism of the text…is really hermeneutical anarchy built on a foundation of conjecture and wishful thinking.
FoG:
How about answering these questions, preferably in this thread so folks don’t have to chase all over the board to get the answer (if they actually get answered)?
-
Have you studied Theology?
-
If so, where?
-
If so, and you named where, was that place accredited?
-
If so, by whom accredited?
-
To which denomination do you belong?
-
Does that denomination have ministers, priests, or preachers?
-
If so, are you officially one of those ministers, priests, or preachers?
-
If not, then, pray tell, what exactly are your qualifications for your current mission?
And…
9. What about Pat Robertson?
- What about false prophecy?
Can anyone else add to this? If we get a few more players, we can work on marketing it as a party game…
-Ben