C’mon gang, give me a break. I don’t know anybody’s qualifications on the board. For myself, I’m not qualified to comment on either Christianity or SDI, but that doesn’t stop me from jabbering on about both.
FoG’s been inundated with about 15,000 requests in this thread (not surprising, we’re talking about a billboard-sized target.) 
While there’s nothing wrong with pointing out gaping holes in facts and logic, I humbly request that we at least veil the personal attacks a little.
Ben … I am mentally kicking myself, because Ben was marginally polite in this last post. You did it on purpose didn’t ya? Okay, I will answer your questions:
I asked you about this at the tail end of another thread (either the original movie one or the other one about Christians getting persecuted), but you must have missed it.
First, your assumption is incorrect. I did not deliver a “false prophesy”, nor did I attribute it to God. For those who don’t know what he means, last summer when I was here I thought I might have heard a word from the Lord as an encouragment to someone, but I was incorrect. I had thought it was God, but I was obviously wrong. Why do you say I ‘attributed it to God’? It became pretty obvious it wasn’t God, and I said so!
It is for this reason (the fact that we humans can ‘miss God’ easily) that I never authoritatively say “God said …”. If I think God wants to speak through me, I am always quite tentative. I usually say something like, “This is what I think the Lord is saying” or “I believe God wants to encourage you with …”. Most if not all of my friends would prophesy in the same way.
My biggest mistake, as I said at the time, was I did it ‘out of context’ of good Biblical teaching. Prophesy always has to be surrounded with sound Biblical teaching so that it’s kept in perspective. But more on that another time …
Second, as for you ‘pointing out the relevant scripture that ‘proves’ it came from satan’, I don’t recall you saying this, but feel free to bring it up again. At any rate, you are inaccurate to presume that. It could easily just be me, not God or satan. In fact, in all the times I’ve prophesied, I can say honestly that any time I’ve missed it has been me and not satan. There’s an easy yardstick to use: satan’s goal is always to steal, kill, and destroy. If it has a NEGATIVE effect on someone, you might have been used by the enemy. Virtually every miss I’ve ever seen, however, has simply been neutral … ie, no positive or negative effect. Most words that are from the Lord bring tremendous encouragement and relief and challenge, like the Bible says they should.
Now, I do recall one time in college giving one word of counsel that, while true, was given at a point that was not God’s timing … and I think the enemy did use me in that situation. Not a pleasant thought. But I can’t recall a time I prophesied that I felt that the enemy was somehow using me.
Second question:
??? Uhhh … honestly this entertains me. I don’t recall this being a burning question anywhere. I certainly believe he’s a real Christian! I respect him tremendously, although I don’t 100% agree with everything he does (but then, who can you agree 100% with). What ‘behavior’ are you talking about?
As I mentioned, I did partly respond to the so-called ‘false prophesy’ one at the tail end of another thread, but I think it just got missed.
I was ignoring the first one (I don’t even recall seeing the 2nd one) because of the tone in which it was asked. This wasn’t a huge improvement but I figured I’d go ahead and help you get it out of your system ;). Hope it helped.
vanilla said:
If you ever see only one, I hope you get to see “The Hiding Place” from the mid-70s. It’s a true story of some Jews who escaped the Holocaust, and two women who didn’t and had to live through it and keep their faith intact.
tracer said:
LOL! Have you ever seen Veggie Tales? Some friends introduced me to it recently. It’s for kids but adults can enjoy them too. They’re hilarious! Then there’s Focus on the Family’s radio drama Adventures in Odyssey too, which is excellent.
Pariah gave an interesting summation of Jesus of Montreal. It sounds interesting! Thanks for the summary. As for your comments about hiring good actors, I couldn’t agree more … but budgets have to get a lot bigger before that can happen. Believe me, on the LB Message Board we had Harrison Ford as Rayford Steele, etc. But no Christian film studio has that kind of money right now. Maybe someday…
andros said:
I couldn’t agree more. In fact, I will openly admit that the vast majority of Christian-made films are lacking in every way imaginable. But hopefully, the tide is turning, much like it did for CCM in the late 70s and early 80s. I am hoping that Christian moviemaking will finally become high quality in this decade.
Monty wants to play 20 questions, or at least 8 in this case, so here we go:
Not probably in the way you are thinking of it. I never went to seminary if that’s what you mean. I’ve studied Theology during my entire Christian walk, but just through personal Bible study, good teachings and books, etc.
All moot points due to my answer in #1 ;). The closest thing, I suppose, to what you are talking about was a 10 week training school I went to in the summer of 1990 called “Intensive Christian Training”. It was not, however, a theology school. The entire focus of the 10 weeks of intensive study was how to develop, maintain, and strengthen a healthy relationship with God.
A really popular denomination: “Non” :D. Seriously, I belong to Liberty Church, which is a nondenominational Chrismatic church. Liberty is part of Liberty Fellowship, which basically provides the pastors of the various churches with accountability on moral, money, and doctrine issues, as well as assistance and oversight when needed. Most non denominational Charismatic churches belong to one of several similar fellowships. A very popular one is Vineyard Fellowship which has churches all across the country.
Pastors, as well as Prophets, Evangelists, Apostles, Elders, Deacons, etc.
Nope, I’ve never been in full-time ministry.
I have the only qualification necessary: a personal relationship with Jesus Christ! I find this last question interesting. There is a huge misconception out there that pastors and church leaders are the ones who should do the real work, the real spiritual stuff. This is exactly the opposite of what the Bible teaches, even though many people (including many Christians) believe it. The Bible teaches that it is the church’s job to TRAIN all the rest of us to go out and share God’s truth with the world! It’s not only not confined to full time ministers, it’s not even intended to primarily be full time ministers! It’s all us average Joe’s who have the real mission in life!
Thanks for the interesting questions :).
Philosophocles said:
Ah, you’ve struck a nerve. This is the very reason why I’ve never 100% bought the pre-trib rapture theory. Well, that along with the fact that there are good scriptural arguments for both.
flowbark said:
Thanks for the support :). As I’ve said at times, I have no problem with people strongly disagreeing with me, but lets keep the debate civil at the very least.
Monty–
You realize, of course, that most of your questions are addressed in the authority Christ gives to his disciples, found in the Gospels.
I understand, however, that ‘The Bible’ as a source for accrediting the seeming layman is not easily accepted here.
However, if you are willing, it might behoove the curious non-believer to observe the passages/assertations revealed in the texts provided within the body of the Bible to better understand the imperative to ‘share one’s faith’, which in many circumstances include ‘teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness’–and these tenets granted by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the ‘counselor who will lead [the believer] into all truth.’
…if you’re genuinely interested in why these Christians, regardless of their mores in education or social graces, feel they have the blessing of God to proclaim the Gospel to even the most violent opposition.
I have a feeling you already know why the Christian does so, and are merely looking for clarification from Friend of God for the same, due to the seemingly haphazard style in which he’s presented himself.
Lemme know if I’m way off, here.
Take care.
Friend,
That Does sound like a good movie.
I usually only want to see comedies; I guess its hard to find a “christina” comedy!
But I’ve been watchin Veggie Tales for years, love it!
Larry says hi!
I used to belong to a Foursquare church that was part of Vineyard.
But, truly, I think its up to God about Pat Robertson; I’ve seen some pretty hateful and stupid things he’s said(like all feminists are lesbian witches).
Oops.
Christina comedy? I guess that would be Miss Aguilera as Mary, mother of Jesus…
(Personal aside)
Friend, are you in Birmingham or Fairhope? No need to answer if you’d prefer otherwise.
andros asked:
Bham, Al. Are you from Alabama too?
FriendofGod wrote:
No. I hate vegetables. ('s truth!)
Nope, North Carolina. But I have a friend who might be moving to Bham soon.
DON’T GIVE THEM ANY IDEAS!
Reminds me of the movie And God Spoke where these producers are trying to make a film of the entire Bible on a shoestring budget.
Has some funny bits, like where the guy (I’ll call him Dave) who is playing Jesus is this serious method actor, and the director is trying to get his attention:
Director: Hey, Dave, can you come over here a minute.
(no response)
Director: Dave! Come here!
(nothing)
Director: Dave!! Dammit. DAVE!!
(Dave contiues ignoring him.)
Director (throwing up his hands) Jesus!
Dave: Yes?
Nope. Just eight. BTW, thanks for actually keeping the answers, such as they are, in the same thread.
I’ll take that as a “No.” As it is, I’m willing to bet real money that you have not studied Theology, but rather have studied your faith’s catechism. They are not the same thing.
Then it doesn’t have any bearing on the Theology question, right? I’d say that, given your description in the last sentence, it has everything to do with being part of your faith’s catechism.
Charismatic non-denominational? That sounds a lot like an Assemblies of God or other Pentacostal outfit, but I’ll take the time and effort to research it.
If Ben’s assertion is correct, and I’ve no reason to doubt him so far, I sure hope they do a better job of it than he says you did.
So your outfit feels that there are certain ecclesiastical offices which require certain qualifications before embarking on their missions, whatever those missions are? And you’re not one of them?
Are you sure it’s Jesus? After all, again assuming Ben was correct {and you partially affirmed his assertion above, btw}, you’ve been mistaken on that, for at least a little while.
Actually, my outfit also feels everyone should do “the real spiritual stuff,” as do many other outfits. But we certainly don’t condone misinformation.
You realize that being an example is a good start. Please start being good. {Hey, I couldn’t pass up that one!}
Well, my outfit doesn’t pay their priesthood members. I guess that makes all of us “average Joes” there.
No problem.
**
“Marginally” polite?
**
Cite, please?
**
Yes, you did deliver a false prophesy. You delivered a prophesy, and it was false. You admitted it was a prophesy. You admitted it was false. Why do you not admit it was a false prophesy?
By your own admission, you attributed it to God. “I had thought it was God, but I was obviously wrong.” You may have retracted your error- but you nonetheless attributed it to God.
Here are the relevant parts of the conversation, from this thread:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=33749&pagenumber=1
Let me point out that I am bolding parts from the message I am replying to, and not bolding old quotes.
Here is FoG’s original “prophecy.”
pldennison responded rather negatively to this, to say the least, and FoG replied:
Here is matt’s reply:
FoG’s response to pldennison, after finding out that he got it wrong:
That’s right, folks- even if FoG gets it wrong, it’s a “slap in the face” to God for criticising FoG for making false prophecies.
FoG, you delivered a false prophecy. Think of it this way: pldennison has more power of discernment than you do. He knew the prophecy did not come from God, and you- the false prophet in question- did not. I think that if God exists, pldennison was way, way more tuned in to him than you were, and you should have a little more respect for God’s choice of friends.
FoG also states:
Uh, no, FoG, sometimes you don’t “flat out miss it.” Isaiah didn’t “flat out miss it,” ever, because unlike you, he’s a real prophet. Real prophets do not miss. Ever.
**
You mean like Isaiah? “Uh, guys- I think God has a little something for you. Is a Messiah going to come, or something? That’s the vibes I’m getting.” Face it, FoG: if there’s an ounce of truth to your religion, then God can speak through true prophets without any screw-ups.
**
I apologize for quoting such lengthy sections, but I think we need to see FoG’s statements in full in order to see what’s going on. If we look at what the Bible has to say about false prophets like FoG:
Deut 18:20-22
'“But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?”
If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him."’
I also seem to remember verses which are even more strongly worded. Could someone help me out?
FoG, it seems to me that you “spoke presumptuously.” You seem to blow it off as no big deal if you got it wrong- but in the time of Deuteronomy, you, yes, you personally, would have been put to death for what you did here. And do you really think your false prophecy was “neutral” in its effect, when it served to further convince many people that your religion is fit only for nincompoops? Like Jesus said, it would be better if a millstone had been tied around your neck.
FoG, can you provide me with any scriptural support for this?
If some of your prophecies are true and some are false, how do we know which we can trust? If I made prophecies, some of them would come true just by chance, and a lot would come true if I were skillful at cold reading. What % of the prophecies must come true before I am considered a true prophet of God? It seems to me that one logical answer would be 100%.
**
I mentioned it three times in this thread:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=60286&pagenumber=2
I presented the post in question, in its entirety, twice. Here it is a third time:
While we’re at it, you still haven’t provided a single example of anti-Christian persecution in America which compares to the examples we gave of anti-Wiccan and anti-atheist bias. Would you care to address that?
(If the moderators think it would be more appropriate, they can move this post to the pit, so as not to hijack this thread.)
-Ben
FoG: Do you recall this interchange in the What Would It Take to Prove God’s Existence to You? thread you started?
It appears to me that you don’t care if you’re perceived as rude but you’re certainly willing to accuse others of rudeness. Anyway, exactly how do you know those folks aren’t just doing the friendly thing by trying to make your life here better?
For more edification please punch in “mormon” in the keyword field and “pldennison” in the poster field of this site’s search engine. You will see that he and I ended up in a very interesting conversation about religion after a bit. I wish you’d learn some of PL’s manners.
And I’d like to recommend another movie for FoG to see: What Dreams May Come (though I heard the book was better). In the story, a doctor (Robin Williams) goes to Heaven after being hit by a car. After getting the feel of the place, he discovers that his wife was so distraught over his death, she has committed suicide and gone to Hell. He decides to go to Hell to get her out because Heaven would be Hell without her by his side, that it would be better to be in Hell with her than in Heaven without her. (A novel with a similar story that has yet to be filmed is Robert Heinlein’s Job: A Comedy of Justice, the word comedy used as opposite of tragedy, meaning “a story with a happy ending.”)
Jesus said you should reject anyone who tries to lead you from Him, even a loved one. I simply do not understand how someone could be happy in Heaven knowing a loved one, a spouse or parent or sibling or great friend, was suffering in the fiery Pits. Do you get amnesia in Heaven and simply forget they ever existed?
It was that verse, Jesus commanding me to abandon my family if necessary, a family that loved me but not all of them believed (my father did not believe and I’m not sure what my brothers believe), that was the straw that broke the back of my faith and I have been an athiest ever since. (The thought that a murderer could go to Heaven while his victim could go to Hell didn’t help either.)
Your religion encourages you to reject those who love you if they do not believe as you do. It’s selfishness writ large. It’s a shame you don’t see that.
Monty’s response to the questions:
We don’t have a catechism. I’ve not seen one of those in decades! No, I’ve certainly studied dozens of issues in the Bible, some by myself, many with the assistance of excellent teachings. Most of my friends have as well. Believe it or not, in-depth study of the Bible is a routine part of many believers’ lives.
To explain further … “Charismatic” is not a denomination. It is a descriptive term. There are in existence today:
Charimatic Baptist Churches
Charismatic Catholic Churches
Charismatic Episcopalian Churches
etc, etc, etc
In addition to the above there are just “Charismatic” churches that don’t belong to a denomination, but that usually belong to a fellowship of like-minded churches for the purpose of accountability and covering. That’s the kind of church I belong to.
Assemblies of God and Pentacostal are denominations that were formed long before “Charismatic” churches started springing up in the early to mid 60s. They do, in fact, have similar beliefs to Charismatics.
I’ve never even attempted to get in full time ministry.
I don’t get your point here … You asked what qualifies me in my mission to spread God’s word, and I said it was my relationship with Jesus. How does my error in prophesy relate to this point?
Okay, on to Ben.
Ben, first, before I address any of your quotes, let me just say this overall: you strike me as someone who has made up his mind ahead of time what you will think no matter what I say. You seem hellbent on attacking me personally, and you will use and twist whatever tools you run across (including my own mistakes) to accomplish your goal. And you seem to be having tremendous fun doing it.
Having said that, unless you drop your judgmental crusade, this will be my final comment on the subject. Feel free to rant and rave all day. To be honest, I could care less. You do not deserve any respect with the way you have raised these issues, and I will not give you any.
Read it again, Sherlock (emphasis mine):
I pretty much bluntly said from the get go I wasn’t 100% sure. Obviously, since it was inaccurate, how can you or I or anyone call it a prophesy at all? It obviously wasn’t from the Lord. I thought I might have heard from the Lord, and I was wrong. It’s that simple. I realize this doesn’t match up with your desired scandal scenario, but that’s all it was Ben.
Yeah, but did you bother to quote it? To this day, I still stand by what I said to him that you quoted later! You neglected to mention that he said what he did before it became clear that I had missed God. I did make one mistake in my response to him: I had momentarily thought he was the one who’d made the request for an encouraging word in the first place (it was actually matt, who reacted much more reasonably to my error). Nonetheless, his contempt for the very idea that God could speak was pretty forceful and I don’t regret calling him on it one bit. Here’s a sample:
It was pretty bitter bile, not to mention inaccurate. He made drastic assumptions (especially that I was trying to ‘prove a point’) and made it seem like it was ‘easy prophesy’ (ie, that surely EVERYONE was having confusion at work). It’s still pretty funny to me that the fact that what I said was wrong proved pldennison wrong as well!
Back to Ben’s comments in this thread:
Again … the problem here was the comment was made before he knew one way or the other if it was right or wrong. It’s two separate issues. This is not too hard Ben. Look at which posts come first. He was essentially saying there’s no way it could be from God because that applies to ALL of us! Again, it’s quite entertaining that it didn’t apply to matt, proving both of us wrong.
In response to this I go back to what I said in the original thread and what I’ve repeated here: my biggest mistake was I shouldn’t have even tried it without it being in the context of clear biblical teaching on prophesy.
Ben, I will give you credit on one point: your misconception about prophesy is very common, even among Christians. But just because it sounds right doesn’t mean it is.
I am not going to do an in-depth Bible study on this point, but the role of the prophet in the OT is totally different from the role of the prophet in the NT. You can study it yourself if you really want to get into it. It’s really a pretty fascinating study.
Here is the 50 cent version: in the OT, prophets were the ONLY way to hear God. As you cited, they had to be 100% accurate because what they said was literally practically the equivalent of scripture – God’s word to man. So there was no margin for error.
In the NT, Jesus actually lives inside each of us, and each individual believer is responsible for hearing God for their own personal life for direction. The role of the prophet is dramatically reduced in the NT. Here are a few of the relevant scriptures (emphasis mine):
In a nutshell, an NT prophet is not the sole source, or even the primary source, of the voice of God, as opposed to an OT prophet. I am responsible for hearing God for myself. The way I’ve seen prophesy work, it usually is a confirming and encouraging word about something God has already told you to do. I’ve seen a few of the ‘heads up’ type prophesies as well, where it’s not something God had already said, but at a later date the issue comes up and then you go back and realize it was mentioned in a prophesy you got a year ago!
At any rate, each Christian is responsible to not take a prophet’s word as equal to the word of God, or even as equal to ‘what God is saying to me’. A prophet in the NT can miss God completely and still be a valid prophet, as opposed to the OT, because his/her role is drastically reduced. The individual is responsible to see if it jibes both with scripture and with what God is saying to them.
Having said that, obviously an NT prophet has to be accurate the vast majority of the time if they hope to have an effective ministry! I’ve seen some that are fairly marginal, and I’ve seen a couple that are accurate over 95% of the time!
One of my all time favorite prophet stories is from the early 80s when a prophet came to our church and prophesied one person at a time to each person in one of the bible studies in our church (about 30 or so people). He was accurate with each one, except for two people. These two people are sisters and were very good friends of mine at the time. The guy got them swapped! He described one of them to a T … only it was the other sister he was describing! And then vice versa. Everyone cracked up because they knew the guy had just gotten his wires crossed! It was pretty funny. I’ve seen other similar things as well. But again, having said that, you obviously need to be accurate the vast majority of the time regardless of what I said earlier.
That’s some of what I meant by ‘I shouldn’t have tried to prophesy without clear sciptural teaching surrounding it’.
Note: I am not a prophet at all, nor have I ever claimed to be one, so how can I be a false one?
Regarding the Pat Robertson quotes … giving your penchant for quoting out of context, I’d have to hear the entire context of his quote about South Africa to even begin to comment. I have no idea what his overall point was and if I agree or disagree. Even if I disagree, why would that not make him a Christian?
As for the other quote: I agree with him 100%. Even if it weren’t true, if Pat Robertson were elected President, it would be his business who he wanted for key positions. If he wants all Christians and thinks that’s best for the country, that’s what he should do! I happen to think that those with Judeo Christian values would lead the country in the right direction. Obviously many people on this board would disagree and maybe even find that offensive. Interestingly, many nonbelievers think the exact opposite: that ‘religious people’ have no place in the political process and should not even run for office.
You know what? It finally hit me about a week ago that I could care less if anyone believes Christians are harassed in America today! There are many more important issues I am concerned with. So yes, I believe Christians are harassed in the USA today, and no, I am not going to try to prove to you it’s true, nor do I care if you do or don’t believe it’s true.
Okay Ben … there you go. I doubt this got anything out of your system but that’s my final word. Have fun with it.
{fixed code. --Gaudere}
[Edited by Gaudere on 03-17-2001 at 11:28 AM]
Grr … who is it that always says ‘Preview is my friend’? Sorry about the messed up italics. Here are the scriptures I quoted near the end, with my emphasis (since it couldnt be seen in my original post with everything in italic):
jab1 said:
Wow, I really appreciate the honesty in your post. If I may, I’d love to give you food for thought: I am assuming you are referring to this rather famous passage:
Yet, four chapters earlier, a man asked Jesus what he must do to inherit eternal life, and the man replied (emphasis mine):
So Jesus says here (and elsewhere) that the way to eternal life is love God with everything in you and love everyone around you as you love yourself! Yet in chapter 14 He says you have to hate those closest to you to follow Him! Doesn’t seem to jibe does it? The latter passage matches up with other things Jesus said and other messages in the Bible. What could He have meant, then, by the earlier passage?
This is my take on it. When you think of hate, you think of a large chasm between two people. If two people hate each other, there is a great distance between them.
In the context of Jesus’ overall message, I take the earlier passage to mean this: that your love and devotion and commitment to God are so total and complete, that the DISTANCE between your love for Him and your love for your family is as LONG as the distance between two people who hate each other.
This is verbalized in many ways between married couples I’ve seen. Every Godly married couple I’ve seen would not have married their spouse if the person had loved them MORE than they loved God! I am that way myself. I will not marry a woman that loves me more than they love God! And that’s a foundation for a very healthy marriage, because if you love God THAT much more than anyone else, His love will become a part of you, and you will love your wife and kids and everyone else all the more!
But let’s take an extreme and far fetched example. Suppose after 30 years of marriage my wife turns her back on God and comes to me and says, “You have to choose: it’s either me or Him”. Without hestitation I would choose God, even though it would break my heart. My devotion to Him is so great, that it’s as if there’s a chasm between my devotion to Him and to anyone else … a chasm as large as if I hated someone.
Anyway, I hope that gives you something to chew on.
“Physician, heal thyself.”
I’m not talking about the Roman Catholic Catechism, FoG. For your further edification, here’s the Merriam-Webster Dictionary definition for you:
So, you see, a course of instruction is a catechism. The word is not solely used for Roman Catholic instruction.
Not to be rude, but from your postings here, I’d say those teachers have been quite lacking.
And yet, I study the Scriptures in depth, and come to different conclusions than you do. Perhaps it’s not the Scriptures at fault but the individual? Note that this could mean I’m mistaken, it could mean you’re mistaken, and it could mean that we’re both mistaken. What amazes me is that you refuse to accept that you could possibly be mistaken when you assign to God statements, by your own admission later, he didn’t make.
I know that charasmatic is an adjective. I was merely pointing out what your description of your denomination sounds like to me.
Your timeline is far off.
Where did I ask “full-time?”
Because that shows that you, yourself, do not know who the spirit moving you is. That was obviously Ben’s point and it obviously is my point. Since you admittedly don’t know who the spirit moving you is, you can not be sure that you are carrying out the Lord’s work because you don’t know, by your own admission, who’s telling you to do that work.
You claimed that God told you something; therefore, you laid claim to prophesy.
Here’s what the Prophetic People News* (Issue 3-96 of August 1996 {The University of Queensland, Australia}) has to say on the subject (bolding and underlining brought to you by Monty):
You claimed to know God’s mind, and thus you were claiming distinguishing characteristic #9 along with the bolded sentence below #10. That means you claimed to be a prophet. I trust I don’t have to explain why I emphasized the other portions.
Cite? I know very many non-religious folks who don’t mind religious folks running for office. What those folks object to is those religious folks who state they’ll legislate their religion. That does not mean the non-religious folks object to religious folks en toto. {Please advise if you need a refresher course in Venn Diagrams and Set Theory. I’ll be more than pleased to oblige.}
Here’s the crux of the issue, though: you claimed that Christians in America are systematically harrassed. Going by Characteristic #1 quoted above, either (a) it’s a foundational truth, or (b) you violated the commandment against bearing false witness. BTW: the correct remark is: “I couldn’t care less.” The reason Ben doesn’t believe your assertion is true is that it’s demonstrably false. And your record as a prophet is 0 for 1. Christians in the United States of America are not systematically harrassed. If anything, many of them are dong the harrassing of other faiths (that’s been pointed out to you on this board–I don’t imagine I need to post the links; however, if you ask, I shall)!
*For the uninitiated, I promised FoG I’d do some research into Liberty Fellowship and found this link and also found out that there’s about 200 or so folks in the denomination, if you only count the ecclesiastical authorities (as FoG did in his earlier answer to me).