Yet another reason never to fly United Airlines. (longish)

Allow me to regale you with a tale of incompetence, nincompoopery*, and ass-hattery.

Back in May my wife, 9 week old daughter, and myself were scheduled to fly from Denver to Philadelphia to see my younger brother graduate from law school. We had booked our flight several months in advance, knowing we would have an infant we got a direct flight, no stops, no caring for a 9 week old in strange airports. We were scheduled to leave Wednesday at about noon. Around 9 we called to check our flight, “what do you mean canceled? What does canceled for crew problems mean”. Yes indeed dear friends our direct flight was canceled, despite having a later flight, we were booked on a flight through Chicago, great we have a 3 hour layover in O’Hare. Lovely. instead of arriving in Philly with plenty of time to get our car and find our hotel before dark we won’t arrive until after 10 pm.

The staff in Denver were very nice and helpful, especially since my ticket could not be checked in without a supervisor, my wife’s was fine but mine was screwed up. We arrived in Chicago and started our 3 hour layover. Caring for a 9 week old in a strange airport is kind of hard, but we managed. An hour or so into our layover we checked our flight and there was an additional 2 hour delay, now we are here for 5 hours. We grab dinner from the overpriced airport vendors and since O’Hare is way too small for the volume of passengers we sit on the floor outside a shoe shine shop to eat. Fortunately the people in Denver had allowed us to gate check our stroller as well as car seat (remember this detail for later). So the little blackhand was nice and comfy in her stroller even if we were on the floor.

Shortly after we finished eating an announcement comes over the PA, our flight was now delayed another hour. Five minutes after that announcement we got another one, our flight is now canceled. We make our way to the customer service desk, but since we were on the opposite side if the terminal at least 100 people are ahead of us, probably closer to 200. While in line we call United’s 800 number, they were completely useless directing us to wait in the customer service line. While Mrs. blackhand waited in the line I walked up to the desk to see what was taking so long, for a line of at least 250 people, they had 3 agents (there was desk space for 8), while I was watching one of the three left, never to return. So now we have 100-200 angry people ahead of us, 2 agents trying to help them and the line keeps growing.

After almost 2 hours in line we get up to the desk, by now there are only about 50-75 people behind us and an additional 5 agents show up, great work guys. We are told that our flight was canceled due to weather, what weather. The five flights scheduled to leave after ours were made it just fine, 2 of those flights left before our delayed flight time. The agents at the desk said the earliest we could get to Philadelphia was Friday morning. Since my brother’s graduation was Thursday and our return tickets were for Saturday there was not much point. We couldn’t even fly into surrounding airports in time to make the graduation. So we decided to call the trip off entirely and book tickets back to Denver. The earliest flight we could get on was at 11 the next morning connecting through Kansas City.

So now we are stuck in Chicago with no where to stay all because united had “crew problems”. What does “crew problems” mean? Was the pilot still drunk from a night at the strip club, was the co-pilot sick with ptomaine poisoning? Had the attendants gone on strike for this flight only? No one would tell us. Back to the point…

So now we are stuck in Chicago with nowhere to stay, we ask for a hotel voucher. Nope, we cannot have a hotel voucher sine our flight was canceled due to weather. I argued that the only reason we were even in Chicago was because of “crew problems” not weather. That’s when the agent said that ok, maybe it was United’s fault, but she had already given away all their hotel vouchers. Wait, she already gave them all away. to who, they don’t give vouchers for weather related cancellations… After arguing for a few more minutes we just needed to sleep so we started calling all sorts of hotels looking for a room. We finally booked one at a Hyatt, but after waiting over an hour for their shuttle (“It’ll be there in 10 minutes”). After canceling that room we started walking up and down the row of waiting shuttles asking if they have any rooms available. Finally a Comfort Inn driver says they do have one room available, at this point I don’t care where it is as long as we can get some sleep. It is approaching 11 and we are exhausted. The hotel costs a lot more than I like, but at least we have a bed. Of course we have no luggage and we packed our toothbrushes, but we have a bed. As an aside we normally carry on our toothbrushes and a spare pair of underwear, but since this was supposed to be a direct flight in the middle of the day we packed them to have extra room for baby gear.

The next morning comes all too soon. We leave the hotel at 6, they were nice enough to put out their breakfast a few minutes early for us so we could grab a bite to eat. We get t the airport the requisite 90 minutes early. We check in and head through security, the TSA people were very nice when Mrs. Blackhand left her full water bottle in the carry on, they dumped it out for her rather than confiscating the whole bottle. At this point we have my carry on bag, Mrs. Blackhand’s carry on, and a personal bag. As well a a stroller and car seat that we needed to gate check. We went to our gate and asked for the tags to gate check them. The yahoo at the gate gives us one for the car seat, but refuses to give us one for the stroller. He said we could only check it all the way through to Denver. Since we had gate checked them both to Chicago on the way there we knew he was full of shit. So we walked away and went to the customer service desk, where the agent called out to the gate and chewed the guy there a new asshole saying that we could gate check whatever we want. We went back to the gate and asked for the gate check tags again and were once again told that no we could not gate check the stroller, we would have to check it all the way. I, understandably, came unglued on the moron. After asking him in single syllable words if he had just talked to the agent at the customer service desk, if he had understood what she said, and if maybe getting his manager out there would change things. As soon as I invoked his manager he almost threw me the gate check tags and took off the other way.

The rest of the trip was uneventful, if long and tiring. We got home and called United. All told they offered us vouchers for $225 each, since our flights cost almost $300 that irked me. We followed their process to get reimbursed for our hotel room, and sent off an email to their customer service desk. Now 6 weeks later I get a letter from them saying basically, “we’re sorry your trip sucked, but weather is not something we can fix. As far as your hotel costs you are SOL.” I gave them the opportunity to remedy my problems, since they gave me a big middle finger I am doing the only thing I can and letting everyone know how they treat their customers.

So if at all possible I ask you to vote with your money and avoid United.

You can also make a complaint to the Aviation Consumer Protection Division of the DOT at www.airconsumer.ost.dot.gov. Probably won’t get you anything, but at least there will be a public recording of your complaint.

“No one would tell us” is probably the single biggest gripe people have about airline travel.

Communications are an extremely low priority for airlines. Solve that one, your customers will feel less like cattle, and both profits and conditions for your personnel likely will improve considerably.
On the other hand, if in fact your pilot and crew were in fact dead drunk, you might be best off stonewalling everybody.

You lost me there

OK now it sounds familiar

That’s just insane. United sucks–it used to be a halfway decent airline, but it’s been like this for years. I can’t believe they’re still in business.

You should post this on Consumerist. They love stuff like this, and there are other people who’ve had the same kind of experiences. They usually come up with people higher up you can contact to get more compensation.

You know this is always going to be a problem with any big customer oriented company. They can give great service for decades, but one fuck-up, and “never fly United” :rolleyes: . Dudes- no matter where you fly, stay, shop or bank, they *will *fuck up someday. It is how often, how bad and what they do to make it right.

Can’t speak to how often - though, anecdotally, my ex and I spent our wedding night in 1992 camped out in O’Hare thanks to “weather problems”, but the OP is certainly pretty bad, and they didn’t do anything to make it right.

Rolleyes right back at you.

I fly about 4 flights/week as part of my job now. I wish I could say this was an unusual experience but it’s not.
I fly American and not United but I am unconvinced it’s just United. It’s TSA. It’s the idiots who design airports. It’s the overcrowded skies. It’s the cutthroat Airline business. It’s the minimally-paid service workers. It’s Chicago and Philly–two of the most irritating hubs. Especially Philly. It’s kids flying–oops…stepping on your toes, and I used to have some before they grew up and became my friends :slight_smile: .

You did everything right and still got screwed. If I were looking for redress I’d try to get a newspaper interested in the story as an example of how bad it is out there. A little negative PR can perk up the right ears at United.

You should have asked to be transfered to USair or Frontier’s direct DEN to PHL. Come on over to Frontier, We’ll get you there… Plus there is a Doper working there as a Customer Service Higher up. Flash the super secret hand shake. You’ll get taken care of…

“All told they offered us vouchers for $225 each,” or almost a full refund. Not good enough, sure, but hwaaaay better than “nothing”.

As a guy with about three quarters of a million miles in the air, allow me to translate some things for you
Crew problems = Crews are only allowed to work for so long. if the crew that was supposed to fly your flight was delayed earlier that day, and by the end of your flight would have worked too many hours, they cannot work your flight. This is an FAA reg. I know it sucks, but it is real tough to get you where you are going with no pilot.

Weather = It may look just fine outside the terminal window. It may not be weather where you are. It may be a problem with weather at the airport your plane is arriving from, or it may be a problem with weather en route. FYI in summer Thunderstorms in the Midwest cause no end of problems for people flying non-stop from coast to coast. Ask me how I know this. In the winter a storm in San Francisco will fuck up all the west coast flights, like a Seattle to LA non-stop. The reason for this is the plane probably had a stop in SF earlier and during bad weather SFO goes down to one runway causing no end to delays.

I have two suggestions for you.

  1. Take a deep cleansing breath and repeat the frequent flier mantra.
    It is much better to be down here wishing I was up there, than it would be to be up there wishing I was down here.
  2. If you fly with a laptop, carry a copy of Trains Planes and Automobiles.

The no-gate check guy was an asshole, no doubt.

The delayed planes = crew can’t work overtime thing was my first thought as well. I don’t know why the OP wasn’t told that, except I suspect the person/people who kept saying “crew problems” probably had one too many irate people screaming at them about how they didn’t care, the airline should make them work overtime. Yeeeeah, a tired pilot isn’t a good thing.

And you’re quite right about the weather. My husband and I were taking a late spring/early summer flight on United from O’Hare to Boston Logan a few years back, and we were delayed at the airport for something like 6+ hours due to horrible thunderstorms and what effects it had on the whole flight system. We were in O’Hare watching the blackened sky, water coming down in sheets, and lightning striking the tarmac. Meanwhile I suspect the people on the plane that we were supposed to take with a new crew (all of whom were waiting in the terminal with us, moving from one gate to the next as they kept pushing back the ETA, etc.), which diverted to Detroit instead of coming to O’Hare, were probably swearing and wondering what the big deal was about a little rain in Chicago. They and anyone else affected by the event but not in/around Chicago and where the storm moved eastwards toward were also probably insisting that weather had absolutely nothing to do with their delayed flights, when if they were in O’Hare and thought about what was going on as a result, they would have known it had everything to do with it.

To the OP, I’m sorry you ran into trouble, and it’s unfortunate that some United staff were unhelpful. Sadly, weather delays are part and parcel of flight travel, so that part at least truly was unavoidable.

While we’re complaining about airlines…

I have flown with connecting flights through London with British Airways twice. Twice, they have lost my luggage. Also, despite assuring me that they would have my bags to me within 48 hours, it took 4 days. I was really lucky that both times I was flying home; had I been traveling further, I would have had nothing to wear at all. In their defense, everyone I talked to about it was really, really nice, but that still didn’t get me my stuff faster (the second time, I had been abroad for five months, so that’s a lot of stuff)

Also, I realize this isn’t the airlines’ fault, but I’m really tired of sitting on the tarmac, waiting because there is too much air traffic. Shouldn’t the airports have a better system?

The last time I flew United was the last time; amazingly, I didn’t run into the sort of problems you had, but they had the seats crammed in closer to each other than I have ever seen, to the point it was almost impossible to get in or out of them. And they had the balls to try to upsell us to seats with better (i.e., any) footroom at the gates, for an extra $80. Hello? This isn’t Target. Don’t pull that shit.

I didn’t pick the airline, but now I know better. I was on Southwest for the return flight, and oh my it was an improvement. I don’t mind paying for bare-bones (plus much better customer service) if that’s what I know I’m going to get. United, and farther back American, pissed me off because they pretend like you’re getting enough to be worth paying more for…but you fucking don’t. Screw it. They’re not going to change anytime soon, though, what with the numbers of people flying. Fuck.

Yet another reason never to fly ANY Airlines.

Fixed your title for you…I can match or top your horror story on any airline in the US, except possibly Southwest.

I’ll try not to be too cranky about replying to this, but I’m tired of hearing “too much air traffic”. There is NOT “too much air traffic”. The problem is “too few HUB AIRPORTS”

There are 5,000+ airports in the United States. The airlines pretty much stick to the same 40 of them. See the problem? In my area, just as an example, both Gary Regional and Rockford, Illinois have FINE airports with runways longer than Midway that could EASILY accomodate air travel but they aren’t used for passenger airlines. Gary has been struggling for YEARS to get passenger travel in their airport - at most, they’ll have it for a few months and then the airline pulls out again. And it’s because the big airlines absolutely refuse to fly in and out of there, even though there’s no reason on God’s Green Earth not to do so (other than politics and shit like that).

O’Hare and Midway overcrowded? Need a third airport in the area? THERE ARE ALREADY AIRPORTS IN THE AREA THAT CAN ACCOMODATE PASSENGER TRAVEL, BUT THEY AREN’T USED FOR IT!

(where did this soapbox come from and why am I standing on it?)

Whose fault is this? Partly, it’s politicians - the Illinois side of the equation doesn’t want Gary used, because Gary is in Indiana and oh, no - Indiana will profit from this! (Except Chicago signed a deal whereby they get a cut of airline service out of Gary, in exchange for helping fund the airport… gee, what a great concept, an agreement for the mutual benefit of two parties…). Partly, it’s the airlines - they have a business model based on just a few hubs. Don’t like it? Tough shit. This is the great improvement airline de-regulation brought us, so if you don’t like it thank President Reagan, it was his idea. Don’t blame air traffic control - they’re just trying to deal with the hand they were dealt. ATC never decided to dump everyone into just a couple dozen airports and ignore the rest.

The truth is, there is LOTS of room in the air, and even on the ground - but you can’t land everyone on the same runway at the same time.

That sounds AWFUL. I had a similarly ridiculous experience (minus the baby complication!), but it sounds like you bore up much better than I did.

I was flying home for spring break, and extremely eager to see my boyfriend and family. Eager, like, counting the hours. I miss them tons when I’m at school, and a long-distance relationship is no fun. My flight was supposed to leave from State College at 6 am, I was going to switch in Detroit and then fly to Montreal from there. The scheduled landing time in Montreal was 11 am.

I called ahead to get a shuttle to the airport to my house at 4:40 am. I left my house on 3 hours of sleep, and I’ll admit, I tend to get cranky and emotional when I’m that sleep deprived. The driver mentioned that he had heard a flight was cancelled, and I and the other girl flying to Detroit were, shall we say, concerned. I get there and yes, our flight is cancelled. Apparently the plane we were supposed to fly out on this morning never came in last night. Last night? Yep, and they hadn’t called any of us. Thanks! I waited in the service line for 45 minutes (and the State College airport is TINY, 45 minutes was a ridiculous wait for about 10 people in line ahead of me) to be told that the best they could do was fly me out tomorrow afternoon. I looked like I was about to cry, and the desk lady told me that she could put me in a van to Williamsport (an hour drive away), a plane to Philadelphia, a plane to Ottawa and then a plane to Montreal. As long as it gets me home, I said!

After a whole bunch of shenanigans in the meanwhile (like the fact that the original lady didn’t actually reserve me seats on the future flights), the plane was severely delayed from Philadelphia to Ottawa. I would have been fine to make my flight, except that once we got on the plane, the woman sitting next to me in the emergency exit row was a COMPLETE FUCKING LOON who started up an intense verbal altercation with the flight attendant, who refused to fly with her on the plane, and she refused to get off the plane, despite a burly airport employee attempting to escort her off. She was even verbally abusive to the rest of us passengers sitting around. Finally, after some mediation, she sat down and shut up, and we got out of there… in time for me to miss my flight from Ottawa to Montreal.

Now, it’s a roughly 1:30 - 2 hour drive from Ottawa to Montreal. My parents offered to just drive over and get me, or pay for a bus or train ticket. But my luggage was checked and I was confused. It was about 3 pm at this point, and when I went to the service agent to get a seat on the next flight, I was told I would be waiting until 8 pm. It was then I started bawling. It was super embarassing! When I went back through security, the guard helpfully pointed out that I WAS bringing liquid through - all over my cheeks. Thankfully, I managed to get on a flight flying standby, and landed at around 6 pm, only seven hours late.

OH, wait - back to the OP:

What does it mean? Well, occassionaly it means the pilot(s) are sick, or drunk, or arrested but USUALLY it means the crew was delayed somewhere else along the way and can’t fly your flight because the number of hours a day a pilot can fly is limited by regulation and they don’t have enough on the clock to complete your flight. I realize that sometimes this sucks ass, but seriously, do you want an over-tired pilot flying the landing? No, you probably don’t. I understand you get pissed off, but better for you to be inconvinced than in an accident. I also suspect that if that had been the ONLY thing to go wrong you wouldn’t be so upset.

As to why they don’t get more detailed than “crew problems” – well, the employee you’re dealing with at that particular time may, in fact, know no more than that simply phrase. They may not, indeed are likely not, privy to details with a crew and aircraft hundreds, if not thousands, of miles away.

And my condolences for having to do so at O’Hare, which is huge, complex, and a zoo at the best of times. I could interject a quasi-humerous anecdote about the time I walked into a ladies’ room there and found an obviously foreign woman using the sink instead of the toilet for pissing because I think the auto-flush feature was terrifying to her - but I don’t want to take away from your rant. Suffice to say, for anyone who hasn’t been to O’Hare, it can be a trip through hell even for the seasoned veteran. It has to do with the sheer number of people, the number of People Who Are Not From Around Here and thus possessed of strange and inexplicable customs (they think we’re pretty weird, too), and probably just bad karma.

And this is just plain sucky customer service.

The weather these last two weeks has been, shall we say, interesting. The airlines employ meterologists - or at least they used to (they may have been the victims of cost-cutting). If I, who am merely an amateur-level forecaster can predict exciting weather for the day from my home computer these fuckers should be able to determine the say and call extra people BEFORE the shit hits the fan. Although jet travel IS rocket science (of a sort) good customer service is not. They knew there would be delays and in all likelihood cancellations but they refused to take advance steps to deal with it. And that IS the airlines’ fault.

The thunderstorms we were having over the past week or so were very intense but also very localized - a locale might get 2 inches of rain in an hour, and 10 miles away the sun would be shining. However, even though these storms were “small”, they were intense enough that flying through them could have imposed a significant risk even to a large airliner. If there was such a storm between you and your destination it might have look just fine out the window where you were standing on the ground, but not have been fine en route.

Also, because the fucking airlines all want to go to and from the same airports it’s hard to squeeze in an extra flight, and if there are delays some flights might be “squeezed out”. They aren’t going to give up the slots of the airplanes already scheduled to squeak another one in. If they didn’t schedule so many fucking flights in and out of the same place at the same time they might have a schedule with actual flex in it, but they don’t.

Probably because the person you are speaking directly to doesn’t know any more than you do what’s going on.

The airlines have this stupid-ass notion that customers believe ignorance is bliss. I don’t think that’s true. While people might still get pissy if they hear “I’m sorry, but the scheduled crew was delayed, they’ve worked the legally permitted hours already, and they’re tired - we have to delay until we can get a fresh crew” folks would at least appreciate the honesty. Then again, this might also require them to say “Well, we laid off 40% of our work force so our CEO could get a $40 million bonus despite the company still being in bankruptcy so we’re short on qualified pilots” which probably would make the company look bad.

Because the hotel is near an airport and they’ve got you over a barrell…

It was my understanding that if you ask the airline for a “personal effects” kit or whatever the hell they call them that most of the time you can get one. You can also ask at the hotel, where they will be either free or minimal cost. But most people don’t know that, and the airlines don’t advertise it.

I voted with my money and got my own pilot’s license. So fuck the airlines.

Except, of course, it’s even more expensive to do your own flying, and you’re even more limited by the weather.

I fly United whenever I can, but I am in Denver and for some reason the United personnel here are efficient, helpful, and smart. So are the passengers, it seems. In Denver, there are tons of self check in machines and people actually know how to use them, as opposed to staring blankly at them and waiting for them to take your documents and carry your bags.

United here has it’s own terminal, and they even have some decent restaurants. I rarely have problems in Denver. It’s returning home, on the other hand…
O’Hare just sucks, it is too crowded and the gate waiting areas hold about 15 people, so the passengers spill out into the hallway, making it almost impossible to navigate. They also put their departure screens right above the escalators, so people gather in front and cause a crush.

Dulles is even worse. Who in the hell thought buses were a good idea to move passengers in an airport? I’ve seen old ladies take falls worse that what you see on the ski slopes. I’m 6’3" and 230 pounds and I’ve almost fallen when those things take off or turn a corner. I waited for 15 minutes to check in two weeks ago, and I was in the business class lane behind no more than six people. They had one person handling four checkin counters, and she didn’t speak english well. I stopped her from putting someone else’s bag tag on my bag - who knows where it would have gone? Don’t even get me started on the TSA security setup. The cattle chute system they use in Denver makes it look like you’ll be in line forever, but damn it moves fast.

Ding ding! Number one answer.

I don’t fly that much, but even within europe it is usually a pretty crappy experience, only tolerable if there is a nice holiday at the end of it.

If they ever get this up and running, I am certainly going to be using it. By the time I get my carcass to the airport, through the airport, fly, through the airport at the other end, and into the city, it takes nearly five hours to get to Frankfurt now, and it’s completely shit, inconvenient and unreliable.