Yet Aother Evangelical Christian Leader Bites The ... Dust

Or weenie, as it were.
What is it with these guys? Bakker, Swaggert, now the Reverend Ted Haggard, all consumed by passions of the flesh. Brother Haggard, however, has raised the bar quite a bit. At he same time he was publically supporting a state ban on gay marriages, he (allegedly) was paying a male escort once a month for gay sex and snorting crystal for that last little bit of la-dee-da, don’t you know. For three years.

The Right Reverend Haggard, while denying the charges, has stepped down from his position as president of the National Assiciation of Evangelicals, a position that puts him in heady (ahem) company indeed.

Yowsa! Conference calls with the White House. Hope those lines don’t get crossed. “Hi Mike. This is Art. I really really like it when you … what’s that? Uh Uh Uh yessir, Mr. President. We got those gays right where we want’em. Out on the streets and safely away from our Sacred Hetero Nucular Family. Praise be.”

How soon, one queries, will the his brethren scrabble and scramble and sprint to disassociate themselves form Teddie Boy? Pretty damn soon, actually.

Yes, the typo is in the original, Ms Falwell. Art is on the line. Something about some voice mails?

While this may seem quite poetic if it is true, lets reserve judgement. Wether you like his politics, religion or tactics, lets not tar and feather him on the word of a male prostitute.

He may have political views that differ from yours, lets not enjoy his suffering too much because of that.

I am looking forward to the day when we can disagree without the need to destroy, or enjoy the desruction of, one another. One side tries to damage the other’s message/messenger, then the other side retaliates. The climate is just so nasty.

And yes, the evangelicals could start this new day just as easily as you or I. And you would think that they would.

This guy has a wife and kids. True or not - these allegations will have severe impact on his family.

It is true that his stand on gay marriage could negatively impact gay families. So seeing his family destroyed by this truth or rumor may seem like justice, but I just call it another destroyed family. And if the gay rights movement would revel in the demise of one family, I have a hard time being enthusiastic about supporting theirs.

The guy is a grade A jerk. I think people deserve this unabashed display of schadenfreude. You should not give Contrapuntal such a hard time over this or “Ha ha!”


I think newcrasher is just asking why everyone’s so willing to take the word of a gigolo over this guy. Sure, to most people on this board they are about equal, but just keep in mind who’s making the accusation here.

I am becoming more and more convinced that, the louder a person publically rants against some “immoral” behavior or activity and tries to get it shut down, the more likely they are to engage in something very similar in private. I don’t get it, but it seems to be true.

We are. Evangelical hate-mongers just rank lower on the moral scale than a gigolo and so are much less trustworthy.

NPR this morning reported that while he has publically denied all of these charges, an email they have from his church says that he has admitted “to some of them.”

I tend to think there is more truth than lander to this story. Why would a man in his position immediately step down if there wasn’t a provable offense?

Why do you think people who work in the sex industry are more likely to be liars?

The reserving judgment part is fair, I object more to this:

Sometimes you just need to let anonymous people have a little bit of joy at the expense of assholes without a sermon about doing the right thing and taking the high road. This looks like an easy case of letting Contrapuntal have his joy if he wants.

Yeah, but he didn’t ask the dude to marry him!

Here’s what CNN is saying:



The voice mails are interesting, but I have no idea what the $100 bills are supposed to prove. Did he pay the guy in those Catholic School Milk Money envelopes or something?

I suppose I don’t. It’s just that so many people are so anxious to see someone like this fall that they believe it right away without considering if the other person is lying.

Ross Parsley, the now-acting senior pastor at New Life Church, is the source for this and he is a fairly stand-up guy, especially considering the company he keeps. I am inclined to suspect that there is some effort to be gentle with the congregation, and release anough little intimations of guilt that they can come around to accepting Haggard’s culpability before the whole story comes out. There have reportedly been rumors of Haggard’s homosexual activity in the Denver gay community for quite a while.


Transcripts of the voice mails are here. The article also claims “a nationally known voice recognition expert” believes the voice is that of Haggard.

Well, I’m keeping Ted Haggard & especially his family & church in my prayers, but man, this doesn’t look good.

Gotta admit that I did not look forward to getting onto the SDMB after I heard the news (on Bill Bennett’s “Morning in America” radio show), but it would have been cowardly not to- I am glad to see the mostly-moderate comments. I also have to commend that gay rights spokesperson I heard on the news report who said that he hoped this would not be use to vilify Ted Haggard but to extend respect & compassion to all people. Eek! The High Road!

The messengers may fail & falter but the Word stands Eternal.

Why is the word of a male prostitute suspect? Does he have more or less of a reason to lie; more or less of a reputation to protect? If the allegations are true, who is the liar here? What has the male escort have to gain by these accusations, other than revelation of the truth?

he also has the ear of the president and the leadership of an organization 30 million strong. Not exactly apples and apples with me,eh? As for enjoying it, hypocrisy revealed is often a great big hoot.

What are we disagreeing about? Who is doing the destroying? What message is it that Haggard is delivering? Are you really describing this a s a “shoot the messenger” scenario? Are you sure you know what that means?

This comment woukld perhaps be better directed at the Reverend Haggard.

Ya think? Not letting gays marry could have a negative impact on their families? As in **not allowing them to exist **in our country, at least as we understand family today? I’d say that might be a negative impact.

Well, I don’t know what the gay rights movement would revel in, as I am neither gay nor in the movement. But if you are seriously holding up one “destroyed” family versus hundreds of thousands, you are missing the point. This man is the spiritual leader for millions of people. In all probability, he is a flaming hypocrite of maximum proportions. Folks like this deserve everything that is comng to them.

You know I guess my point is that revelling in someone’s misery is not productive. It is cotton candy for the soul. Pretty and tasty, but of no substance and not good for you. Too much spun sugar will make you fat and diabetic.

Evangelical hippocrites? Sure. But how do we effectively counter them? How do we wrest our culture from the grips of these hatemongers who claim to lead the spiritual core of the country?

I take a page from Gandhi. When he was helping the Indians in South Africa resist the (ostensibly Christian) British, he said he was going to “out-Jesus” them. Mahatma was a fan of the man from Bethlehem. He met British agressions and injustice with the love of Jesus.

You know what would take the wind out of these evangelicals who get politically active about gay rights? Out-Jesus them. Expose their act for what it is…hippocritical partisan politics…gay-bashing…their own personal failure to love their neighbors…

What if the head of a large gay-rights group released the following statement?

"The Gigantenormo Gay People and Friends Group is made of all kinds of Americans. Many of us are people of faith. Many of us are not.

Mr. Haggard is a leader of a group of people professing to follow Jesus. In our reading of the Jesus’ teachings, we do not find any reference to homosexuality, but we do see Jesus talk of loving and forgiving our neighbors, and of not passing judgement. In the spirit of the Jesus that Mr. Haggard and his followers claim to follow, we offer to him what we have never received from him. Love. Forgiveness. Understanding.

We ask the media to cease pursuing information about Mr. Haggard’s personal sexual activities. We ask people to be respectful and supportive of his family in this trying time.

The members of GGPFG are people just like you. We are integral parts of your communities. Our hope is that this incident can foster discussion and understandings that can bring us closer together, and that it not be allowed to become a wedge to drive us further apart."

What if?

The civil dialogue has to start somewhere.

Why not here?

The prostitute’s got voice mails. I’d take the word of a prostitute over one of these slimy god botherers any day. At least the prostitute is honest about fucking people for money.

I’m reminded of the fact that Dante placed hypocrites in the Eighth Circle of Hell, deeper even than murderers. Any glee I feel at this man’s downfall has less to do with his political views than with the fact that he’s been living a life based on lies and had the audacity to claim that he spoke for God while doing so.

True, but people like Mr. Haggard spread the word that an old friend of mine who has been with his partner for well over a decade now is somehow inherently less moral and less deserving of the privileges of marriage than straight people simply by dint of being gay. Friar Ted, I believe you recall His4Ever’s arguments on the subject. I admit I hadn’t heard of Mr. Haggard before today, but if he did preach against homosexuality or try to claim Christians are better people than non-Christians, then it may be that, as he has sowed, so he is reaping. As for me, I’ll stick with James 2.

Oh, and by the way, “Reverend” Haggard has admitted to doing something. From the article **Contrapuntal ** linked in OP, emphasis mine.