Excuse me. That was intended to be a small “W” to indicate that the anti-gay rhetoric is the opposite of the Word. That’ll teach me not to preview! :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=newcrasher]
I am looking forward to the day when we can disagree without the need to destroy, or enjoy the desruction of, one another.
[/QUOTE]
I’m looking forward to the day when people aren’t trying to destroy any chance I ever have of having a family. Let’s just start there, shall we.
If this fellow hadn’t been actively trying to keep us as second-class citizens, nobody would have cared that he was banging a dude. There are various prominent politicians in Canada who everyone knows are bi but who don’t get outed. (The nuance is interesting.) They don’t get outed because they’re not trying to tear other queers to shreds.
See, when you hold your wholesome, moral-ass lifestyle up as the model for everyone else to be required to follow, the extent to which you actually follow it becomes a matter of the public interest. And he who is trying to destroy the queer community doesn’t get to rely on the silence of the queer community.
How long untill the anouncement that he is checking in to alcohol rehab?
[QUOTE=newcrasher]
The civil dialogue has to start somewhere.
[/QUOTE]
Cite for the dialog being (so far) uncivil?
It’s the Pit. Against the rules and all. Bit of poor form.
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
Why is the word of a male prostitute suspect? Does he have more or less of a reason to lie; more or less of a reputation to protect? If the allegations are true, who is the liar here? What has the male escort have to gain by these accusations, other than revelation of the truth?.
[/QUOTE]
Good point. I am not sure who is lying, and the prostitute could be telling the truth. Who know? not me.
Assuming he is guilty, you are rigtht again.
One destroyed family is too many. Am I an idealist? Maybe. But I imagine the Haggard children are innocent in this situation. George Bush may be comfortable with innocents being harmed, but collateral damge makes me ill.
Apparently I cannot type for shite!
[QUOTE=newcrasher]
…snip…
The civil dialogue has to start somewhere.
Why not here?
[/QUOTE]
It is the pit after all, this has been very civil overall for the pit. However, I think you meant on the SDMB in general and might have forgot how silly it looked to ask that questions of a bunch of “pit fiends”. 
[QUOTE=askeptic]
How long untill the anouncement that he is checking in to alcohol rehab?
[/QUOTE]
You just know this has to be soon. You know drug addiction leads to “Teh Gay”. This must be why our government has wasted so many dollars on the war on drugs.
Jim
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
Cite for the dialog being (so far) uncivil?
It’s the Pit. Against the rules and all. Bit of poor form.
[/QUOTE]
And how can you have dialogue with people who believe God has told them to lay the smack down on gays? What’s going to happen - are they going to get god to tone it down a bit? Maybe make the Gospel of Ariel The Bender reappear in the Dead Sea area?
There can be no dialogue with fanatics. All you can do is mock and humiliate them in the hope they stop trying to impose their lunatic beliefs on the rest of us. Expose their hypocricies in the hope that it innoculates others against their vicious ideas.
[QUOTE=newcrasher]
One destroyed family is too many. Am I an idealist? Maybe. But I imagine the Haggard children are innocent in this situation. George Bush may be comfortable with innocents being harmed, but collateral damge makes me ill.
[/QUOTE]
I know absolutely nothing about you, so please understand that his question is asked in complete sincerity – Have you ever taken a stand that is pro gay marriage, or pro allowing gay couples to adopt, on the basis that “One destroyed family is too many”? Because I assure you, if indeed Haggard’s family is collateral damage in a culture war, it is one of a great many. Have you spoken for the many, or just the one?
[QUOTE=lisacurl]
The prostitute’s got voice mails.
[/QUOTE]
Which sound like a guy trying to score drugs:
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
It is the pit after all, this has been very civil overall for the pit. However, I think you meant on the SDMB in general and might have forgot how silly it looked to ask that questions of a bunch of “pit fiends”.
You just know this has to be soon. You know drug addiction leads to “Teh Gay”. This must be why our government has wasted so many dollars on the war on drugs.
Jim
[/QUOTE]
It’s the meth that made him gay. Made him beg and plead like a whimpering puppy for the fitness instructor to abuse his little brown rose, and couple with him in a sweaty, stinky man funk, transporting him to a fabulous world of sybaritic delights where he forgot about his duties to Jesus and family. Now… if only he has the strength to find his way back to the light all will be forgiven, because Jesus teaches us to forgive.
[QUOTE=astro]
It’s the meth that made him gay. Made him beg and plead like a whimpering puppy for the fitness instructor to abuse his little brown rose, and couple with him in a sweaty, stinky man funk, transporting him to a fabulous world of sybaritic delights …
[/QUOTE]
Okay, you need to not do that to me at this hour of the morning. fans self
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison]
Why do you think people who work in the sex industry are more likely to be liars?
[/QUOTE]
Especially compared with, say, preachers.
didn’t JC warn us against false prophets? You would think (after Fallwell, Bakker, Swaggert, et. al) that people would use some common sense. Any (claimed) connection of these guys to Christianity is purely accidental. Their lifestyles (rich, flamboyant0 and honesty (or lack thereoff) disqualifies them from being "men of God’…in my view, anyway! :smack:
It does sound more like a drug thing than a sex thing so far. If Haggard and Jones did have sex, I wish Jones kept the blue dress.
[QUOTE=Siege]
True, but people like Mr. Haggard spread the word that an old friend of mine who has been with his partner for well over a decade now is somehow inherently less moral and less deserving of the privileges of marriage than straight people simply by dint of being gay. Friar Ted, I believe you recall His4Ever’s arguments on the subject. I admit I hadn’t heard of Mr. Haggard before today, but if he did preach against homosexuality or try to claim Christians are better people than non-Christians, then it may be that, as he has sowed, so he is reaping. As for me, I’ll stick with James 2.
[/QUOTE]
Siege, we’re gona have to agree to disagree here. And I believe in James 2 as well as Romans 1 and I Corinthians 6.
I can pretty much imagine what His4Ever had to say, tho I don’t specifically recall her exact words. And truthfully, I don’t care to what degree I agreed or disagreed with her. I just stick with Paul. I’m truly sorry Pastor Ted couldn’t.
[QUOTE=Squink]
Which sound like a guy trying to score drugs:
[/QUOTE]
My guess is that’s what he’s admitted to… the drugs. He can have a holy chicken run into rehab until everyone forgets about the homosexuality part of it.
[QUOTE=newcrasher]
He may have political views that differ from yours, lets not enjoy his suffering too much because of that.
[/quote]
I don’t believe in feeling sympathy towards conservatives, because they most certainly don’t feel sympathy towards me, or most people as far as I can tell. I also enjoy the sight of hypocrites like this being caught out.
[QUOTE=newcrasher]
I am looking forward to the day when we can disagree without the need to destroy, or enjoy the desruction of, one another.
[/quote]
As long as much or most of the population are conservative Christians, their side will continue trying to destroy the other; it’s what they do.
[QUOTE=newcrasher]
And yes, the evangelicals could start this new day just as easily as you or I. And you would think that they would.
[/quote]
No, they can’t and won’t; it would go against everything they are. You might as well expect the KKK to mutate into an organization dedicated to spreading racial equality.
[QUOTE=newcrasher]
It is true that his stand on gay marriage could negatively impact gay families.
[/quote]
As pointed out, he and his prevent them from existing, as much as they can. That’s pretty negative.
[QUOTE=newcrasher]
So seeing his family destroyed by this truth or rumor may seem like justice, but I just call it another destroyed family. And if the gay rights movement would revel in the demise of one family, I have a hard time being enthusiastic about supporting theirs.
[/QUOTE]
Either his family agrees with him, or it doesn’t. If it does, it deserves to be destroyed just as he deserves to be destroyed. And yes, I include the children; if they are bigoted children, they need a lesson in how it feels to ruin lives, since they are no doubt already ruining others; as a former victim of bullies, I have no sympathy for the nastier variety of children.
If they don’t agree with him, they are better off without him.
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar]
I think newcrasher is just asking why everyone’s so willing to take the word of a gigolo over this guy. Sure, to most people on this board they are about equal, but just keep in mind who’s making the accusation here.
[/QUOTE]
I’d take almost anyone’s word over this guy; certainly a prostitute.
Besides, even if the accusations are false, it’s still ironic justice, since it’s people like him who have made accusations of homosexuality into something that can ruin lives.
[QUOTE=newcrasher]
Evangelical hippocrites? Sure. But how do we effectively counter them? How do we wrest our culture from the grips of these hatemongers who claim to lead the spiritual core of the country?
[/quote]
They are the core, and we don’t.
[QUOTE=newcrasher]
I take a page from Gandhi. When he was helping the Indians in South Africa resist the (ostensibly Christian) British, he said he was going to “out-Jesus” them. Mahatma was a fan of the man from Bethlehem. He met British agressions and injustice with the love of Jesus.
[/QUOTE]
Not at all the same thing. The British wanted to dominate and exploit India; the conservative Christians want to hurt and destroy their opposition. That’s why things like the Left Behind series and the concept of Hell are popular with them; what they really want is to torture and murder everyone who opposes them. If they had been in place of the British, they would have gunned down Gandhi and all his followers, grinning all the while and shouting “PRAISE JESUS” as they marched over the bodies.
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar]
I think newcrasher is just asking why everyone’s so willing to take the word of a gigolo over this guy. Sure, to most people on this board they are about equal, but just keep in mind who’s making the accusation here.
[/QUOTE]
Equating Evangelical Ministers with gigolos is an insult to upstanding male prostitutes everywhere.