You have a misguided idea of loyalty. True loyalty is trying to prevent people you love from doing stupid shit. What you’re doing is enabling.
Enabling would mean I’m allowing a hurtful behavior. It might sound cruel, but the only one who might get hurt is the dog who, as I’ve explained, I don’t think we’re hurting.
I disagree. If you enable her to do something shitty where no one gets hurt, you’re still enabling, not showing loyalty. If you were loyal to her, you wouldn’t want her to do anything that makes her a worse person than she’d be if she didn’t.
People are only assuming she’d be a bad dog owner. While our situation isn’t ideal, it doesn’t even come close to abuse. She may turn into a good dog owner, or end up having to return it to the shelter. Honestly, I’m not seeing a real big downside to this except the loss of a few bucks. If anything, it’ll teach her some responsibility, help her grow a little. She’d come out of this either as a decent dog owner or wiser from having learned her limitations
Actually, your choices go beyond the list you’ve made, but even in this one (I’m ignoring the rather spiteful idea you mention last) you seem to “try” in a really passive way. Because this is unfair to you (I agree with you on that), unfair to your parents, and unfair to the dog. The only one who is potentially benefiting is your sister (and that’s debatable), and when people do selfish things, they don’t earn our support and loyalty.
If my husband, for example, came home and said he wanted a dog, I would stand up against that. I wouldn’t be doing that because I don’t love him, and I wouldn’t be doing that because I don’t love dogs. I would be doing that because he would be thinking about what he wants and what suits him without thinking about our apartment, our cats, me, and the dog itself. Now, one of the reasons I love him is that he wouldn’t just decide he was getting a dog, no matter what, and one of the strengths of our relationship is that we talk about this stuff. But if push comes to shove, I wouldn’t just say that he can be as selfish as he wants and it won’t affect me or my feelings toward him. The dog would affect me, and his lack of consideration would affect my feelings toward him.
This is where it all falls apart for me in your scenario. You seem to be saying you don’t want a dog. Your father is allergic. Your mom is scared. The dog will have to be outside all the time. You’re busy. Your sister doesn’t spend time at home. Etc., etc., and yet… when you talk about it you just sound apathetic. You’re angry at people here on this board but no matter what shit someone on this board says to you, they are still more respectful of you than your sister is being.
Where is your sister, ethically, in all of this? What’s her guiding principle?
Is your guiding principle that if someone you love does something stupid, you have to put up with it? Do you see that as a healthy principle?
I honestly think that’s where a lot of the frustration you’re seeing from dopers is coming from. They read your apathy as, “Do whatever you want, sis, so long as it doesn’t interrupt WoW!” But you’re talking about your anxiety as well, and I get that. It’s no fun being attacked online, and it’s definitely no fun being the bad guy when someone you love wants something and you’re standing in the way.
But ethically, what we enable is ours (yeah, there may be limits, but I don’t think we’re at them). The more passive you are about the dog, the more the dog really is your responsibility. The world, including or excluding dopers, is not going to absolve you from responsibility for the dog you have chained in your backyard. That’s why what your sister is wanting to do is an imposition on you, and I think you feel that already.
The problem isn’t the specific activity (video games). It’s the devotion to the activity to the exclusion of living a healthy life. The issue with WoW is that you’re basically forced to play all day in order to compete with the top players. To what end? I’ve been sucked in by games plenty of times but whenever I snap out of it and look back at what I have “accomplished,” it comes across as hollow and unsatisfying. Your mileage clearly varies.
If you think that 32 years is your “first crack of adulthood” then this explains quite a lot. I can see someone fresh out of college moving back home until things make sense financially to move out on your own. I have not seen you mention ever having moved out, let alone any desire to ever move out. The ineptitude is your lack of motivation and apparent pride thereof, not the mere fact that you still live with your folks (though, IMO, there are few circumstances where it makes sense to reach 32 and still be home aside from health issues of yourself or your folks).
Looks like you grabbed my crystal ball and have started making predictions! Good work. I guess you know me better than I do, so I shouldn’t need to mention the musical instruments I play, the sports leagues I’m involved with, nor the occasional video game I enjoy in my spare time.
It’s a solution to many things, only one of which is the dog problem. It is not some mystical fantasy.
Putting responsibilities ahead of your personal preference is part of growing up. You clearly have no concept of this.
I’ve already had enough fun with Skyrim, no need to play an online RPG which requires a monthly subscription and sucks hours upon hours of time just to keep up with the pack.
People are assuming it based on what you said. She’s not prepared to take care of herself, let along another entity with feelings and needs. You don’t get a dog thinking that “hey, if it doesn’t work out I’ll just bring it back to the shelter.” That’s like getting married thinking “hey, if it doesn’t work out, I’ll just get divorced.”* She’s 23, not 13. She doesn’t need to indulge her every whim just to see what happens. None of us are entitled to everything we want exactly when we want it just because we want it.
Neither of you seem to have the most remote concept of placing your responsibilities above your whims, and that is the very definition of childishness.
*Yeah, obviously the latter is worse, but not by a whole bunch, since the guy you divorce at least doesn’t have to wait around in a cage for someone else to decide he’s cute.
People are making a lot of assumptions here. How do we know that Yogsosoth’s sister isn’t mature enough to own a dog? Because he said so? This is what the whole thing ultimately hinges on. She’s 23, has graduated from Nursing School, has a job, and pursues a social life. In comparison, Yog, well…
Yog has admitted to outright lying in some of his responses regarding this and shows a marked lack of maturity. Yet some of you people are treating him as if he can make a judgement on his sister’s adulthood. You are letting Yog make the judgement call for you regarding the maturity of another person. Let that sink in a moment.
Consider the source, people.
While considering the unreliability of the source, anyone responsible enough to own a dog would make a priority of getting their own place, rather than getting a dog that their mother is afraid of and their father is allergic to. “More responsible and socially adept than Yog” is about the benchmark I’d set for goldfish ownership.
But how do we know that? I don’t believe a word this guy says. He even admitted to outright lying upthread. I think that his mother’s fear and his father’s allergies are very likely exaggerated. He even backed off of that and said his parents were “OK with it”. What we should be looking at instead is his desire to “counsel” his sister. Consider this comment:
It sounds like little sister may have grown up and stopped listening to big brother. Maybe she’s realized how useless he is. Maybe he started the other thread because on some level he’s upset about that. I don’t know. But I do know that if she has stopped allowing a douchebag manchild to talk her out of accepting responsibilities, that’s probably a good thing.
How do we know what ANYONE here says is true? We don’t. The only way you can be judged here is by your words. That’s why I hate the whole, “oh, so and so is really nice in person!” Maybe so, but I don’t know them in person. I only know how you act here. And you’re going to be judged by that.
With respect, Guin, you’re missing my point. Sure, we can judge Yogsosoth by his words, because they are his words. We can judge him to be a stupid, lying, douchebag manchild (that’s my opinion, at any rate - I’ve tangled with him in the past). However, we can’t judge his sister for the simple reason that she isn’t here. There are no words or acts by her here to judge. We have no idea what kind of person she is. There is no way in hell I am going to form an opinion on her based on words offered by Yogsosoth. I’m pretty damn sure he doesn’t speak for her.
Yog has been one of the weirdest posters on the Dope since I first started recognizing his username/posts about a year ago. I’ve always thought each thing I’ve read by him has been …off. Socially awkward. That’s why I wrote as neutral a post as I could in the other thread (first one after the OP), and figured y’all would take it from there.
I’ve been through a couple bowls of popcorn.
And on preview, Monkey, I usually count on you to be the one to start stirring the shit, even after the fan. I wouldn’t have guessed yours would be the voice of rationality today, but there it is. And I think you’re probably right. Maybe that’s an inkling of why I’ve just stood back the last couple days, though I didn’t really know why.
Thanks, I um, guess. You will find, if you pay attention, that I am always rational, but I will load “combat” pit responses with military grade invective if I am irked. Sometimes I get irked late when others have dropped it or if I think something is still wrong - so maybe that’s what you have seen. Those posts are probably more memorable than if I simply post a cite to prove/disprove a point after all. I also wish my jokes were more memorable, but oh well.
Anyway, I know why I haven’t posted about this 'till tonight. It’s because there isn’t really anything wrong going on. Sure, there is no way in hell yogsosoth should get a dog. But he isn’t - his sister is. He doesn’t really have a moral imperative to care for it as it will be his sister’s dog. Finances aren’t a problem, as she has a job and pays no rent (I assume). The dog won’t even be left alone all day because there are four people living in that house. Her older brother is useless, but fuck it. She’s twenty three, and I don’t see any problem with someone like that, with her position, owning a dog. There is simply nothing to panic about.
Yog’s an idiot, but it’s not going to be his dog. Everybody needs to just chill, stop indulging in hypothetical neglect scenarios, and simply tell the guy he needs to shut the fuck up.
If he’d only agree that neglect is abuse, I’d be satisfied.
That’s fine. I’m just pointing out that we can’t assume yog’s sister (or his entire family for that matter) can’t care for a dog because her brother has… let’s call it “problems”.
<Barney Fife>
He’s a nut.
</BF>
Yanno, I could have just saved myself a lot of typing if I’d just gone right to this.
OTOH, “Everybody needs to just chill” is a damn fine slogan for the Pit. 
Any updates, Yog? Have you talked to your sister yet? Any luck discouraging her?
Consider that for years, my way of preventing her from getting a dog worked. It may not this time, but like I said, I am only willing to change her mind on it, but not to outright prevent it because I don’t feel it is my place to do so nor would it be fair to her.
Again, the parents are ok with it. They may not be jumping for joy, but they have already told her its ok. One doesn’t have to actively want something to not be seriously harmed by it. Besides, I mentioned that I think my dad is faking the allergy, he’s a bit of a hypochondriac and thinks germs are everywhere :rolleyes:
Well let me pool the info I’ve given and maybe give a little more to perhaps convince you why I don’t see it as a big deal. One, my dad’s a bit of a hypochondriac, I don’t really think he’s allergic. He says everything has germs. Plus he’s outside all the time in the backyard working on the plants and flowers, so he’s not that bad. Two, my mom is scared of big dogs, but her getting bit was almost 20 years ago, so I think that length of time, plus the fact that we’re aiming for a small dog, makes her case not as serious. Besides, she’d oppose the dog, as she has in the past, if she really doesn’t want one. Three, my sister doesn’t spend ENOUGH time at home, by her own estimation, so for her to recognize that and want to change brings hope that she actually will change for the dog. If someone else was forcing her to change, I wouldn’t think it would take, but she wants to do it herself, so that is something you should take into consideration. Four, I like dogs, but I prefer other hobbies. But I’m not going to watch a dog starve to death to gold farm, that was a joke done in anger against the idiots who have acted like pet gatekeepers on this board. Five, the outside dog thing is dead, ok? Nobody I know who’s had a dog has had inside dogs. This comes from friends who have grown up with dogs for the last 15-20 years. Not one had an inside dog, therefore I’m completely chalking this outside/inside dog thing to insanity and overprotectiveness. Our dog will be outside and there is nothing wrong with that. And six, the dog will not be outside all the time. We can and have brought our old one in at nights, in inclement weather, and when its barking. It may not be allowed to freely roam in the house, but it can freely roam in the backyard. For all of these reasons, I think our situation is neither abusive nor close to it, so I am displaying an appropriate level of apathy for the situation.
Depends on how stupid. If she was taking drugs, I physically keep her from it. If she was cutting herself, I’d rip the knife from her hands and slap her to snap out of it. But if she was simply eating unhealthy, smoking, or getting a pet she may not be ready for, my level of anger and motivation to action isn’t as high. I’d tell her to keep it away from me and not screw up, but give her enough slack to fail on her own, if she does, so she can learn from it.
Oh please, part of that was in jest. I was hoping people would get that but I guess not. I play a slightly unhealthy level of video games, but its no debilitating.
Eh, no. It is weird for this culture to expect 18 year olds to leave at the first crack of adulthood. I was not making the assertion that moving out is the first crack of adulthood. Some of us regard other things as more important, like holding a steady job, finishing college, paying bills, taking care of many household things. There are more barometers for adulthood than moving out
Sorry, was trolling. When people start making assumptions about me based on what little facts they have, or attacking me inappropriately, my eyes glaze over and I start in on the snarky comments
She’s wanted a dog for a while, this isn’t a whim. And whether or not I thought she may be a good dog owner is besides the point as I made the topic for an entirely other purpose altogether. And there are people who think that a dog’s better off in a shelter than in our house anyway, so let her take it back if it doesn’t work out. She’ll be wiser for it
That’s not true. She will try. I am the one who won’t, and that’s because I don’t want a dog. Why should I change for something that’s forced on me?
Where’d you get the idea of a cage from? We never caged our old dog. If we needed to take her somewhere, she laid down in the backseat with someone watching her. She was never in a cage, we don’t even have one
Yeah! Consider it! shakes fist
I’ve always said they were ok with it. Crazy people came in and assumed they weren’t, but if you go back to the other topic, in the first post, I said they were ok with it. And be fair, I only started trolling people after getting death threats. I think anyone can and SHOULD troll after that, because obviously there are much worse people on the board than some guy who doesn’t want a dog. Go back and yell at miss elizabeth before you accuse me of overtrolling. My level of trolling is perfectly acceptable given the caliber of people I have to deal with and the level of overreaction. In fact, I think I should have trolled more, but unlike some people I have some self-control
Now you’ve done it. We’re gonna get TWO dogs. And I’m going to abuse the hell out of both of them 
Your level of “neglect” is any dog that’s not sleeping with you and living indoors. I will NEVER consider that abuse. This dog will not be an inside dog. As much as I think my dad’s a fake hypochondriac, he doesn’t even like dust, so he’s not going to let the dog inside. And that’s perfectly fine
No updates, we haven’t talked about it. To be honest, after all of the poo flinging idiots on this thread making all kinds of accusations, the only thing I can say in all seriousness is…I don’t know if I want to talk her out of it. I confess that I like dogs less now after all this than before, and to have some dumb monkey or others waltz in here and go wildly off topic and attack me for irrelevant stuff about what they consider a proper lifestyle is really making me see this dog in a worse light. Hey, at least attack me for dog stuff, make another topic if there are different things you want to discuss about my life!