You Decide You Have to Leave Your Country. Where Do You Go and Why?

Canada, UK or Germany.

If I had to go to a non-English-speaking country (say, because all of the English-speaking countries are already full of fleeing Americans), I think I’d fit best in Germany. I feel like the climate is closest to Cleveland, and the people and the vibe. My partner’s family is German, so he’d feel most comfortable there. I definitely look German too.

I watch a lot of Canadian and UK media. A lot. I wouldn’t stick out like a cultural sore thumb there. I could hang with their pub trivia. I could help solve murders in the village, no sweat.

Not to knock SA or pile on (I have cousins there), but there’s also the power issue to consider:

[from 2024]

[from 2020]

For the average middle-class White person? Just fine.

Old news.

There is Belize and Costa Rica to consider.
Costa Rica better health care I’m told and well run.
Belize all English speaking.

OP I do think you should try for the Western Cape - it is wonderful and your money goes a long way.

That said Portugal I’m told is pretty cost effective.

First choice Greece, second Portugal. Apparently they have a program where they will give you a visa if you are willing to buy abandoned homes and fix them up. Not sure on the details.

Out of all the countries I’ve visited, I would agree that I like New Zealand the best, then Australia. Germany and the other EU countries just felt.. Cramped to me. The width of the roads, the standard home size, etc., just felt like it was closing in on me.

I liked the areas in NZ, and it felt opened and relaxed.

I would maybe consider Ireland, but I haven’t visited it, nor Sweden or Switzerland. But they have actual winters there, so they are pretty much off the list.

They don’t have horrible summers, so they are on my list. Except i think Sweden and Switzerland are very hard to immigrate to.

It really is a matter of opinion.

I feel safe. I have had two attempted muggings in the suburb where I live, which is middle class.

I visit the township.with the highest murder rate in the country (animal rescue volunteer) with little fear, as our tiny charity is quite widely known, and we are doing cool shit for poor people, we are not there to cause shit.

Also mob justice is a VERY real thing in South Africa, so it is really quite dangerous to be a criminal in public.

I mean, I joke that I could - and did - walk as a young unarmed white guy in Central Durban, a wasteland of inner city ghetto - but extremely good food - and just yell (in isiZulu) “thief” if threatened and I would be totally protected. Zulus have not forgotten how they are warriors.

I felt less safe in Brazilian favelas, but that is mostly because I did not really understand the culture and therefore certain warning signs that I can see in Zim and RSA.

Like others have said, I’m awful at learning languages. English speaking countries would be at the top. I would do my best to learn a language but I suspect I would sound like an idiot even after years.

Since this is all fantasy and not a serious discussion on emigration my first choice would be Bermuda. I love that place. It’s a fantasy because there is basically zero immigration is allowed.

I visited Ireland years ago and loved it during my brief visit. Same for England. Never been to Australia but I think I would fit in. I was stationed in Germany for 2 years and out of the non-English speaking countries that’s my first choice.

No matter where I go I would have air conditioning. I don’t care if I use it 3 days out of the year.

This is where the perception of safety is totally relative! I’ve lived my entire life with zero attempted muggings.

When I lived in Silverton temporarily, the owner of my B&B would explain, in a casual manner, how he was shot in his own garage by thieves, thus convincing him to move into a gated community. (The same community where a famous athlete’s wife was killed, incidentally. By the famous athlete.)

You have to define “your country.” I’m a US citizen with permanent residency in both Japan and Taiwan. My wife is a Taiwanese also with permanent residency in Japan.

If we went someplace else, I’d like to go to the Netherlands. My wife’s friend lives there with her family and it seems pretty good. I’ve been there once but only for a tradeshow.

That is all assuming visas and work wouldn’t be a problem.

I’d go to Germany most likely. I know the language and have some familiarity with its history and culture. Germany is also centrally located with respect to nearby countries I would want to visit while living there.

If I had the means, I suppose I’d pick a Scandinavian country. I think I could gel with that jam. I have at least one old acquaintance in Sweden (hi, @Soda, if you’re lurking), and I’ve always read that Denmark consistently scores tops in Happiest Places to Live polls, so maybe there.

On the other hand, Canada is right there. My grandmother had Canadian citizenship (I think), I might be able to make that work for me.

I couldn’t decide where to put this… so this seems like a good place.

There’s an excellent interview with Isabel Allende in the NYTimes today. (Not a gift link, as I’m blowing through my gift link allotment of 10 pretty fast this month.) Allende is a novelist who fled her home country of Chile after the military coup that deposed her father’s cousin, democratically-elected Salvador Allende. In the interview she talks about her life and writing, but here she describes her experience of the coup and knowing it was time to go. I found it chilling, moving, and (sadly) timely:

I have inserted paragraph breaks that were not in the original layout for easier reading.


Interviewer: You had to go to Venezuela, because there was a military coup [in Chile]. What was the moment you knew, “It’s time for me to go”?

Allende: It took months and months. The brutality started in 24 hours — the Congress was dismissed indefinitely, there was censorship for everything, all civil rights were suspended, there was no habeas corpus, which means that a person can be arrested and they don’t have to give you any explanation and there is no hearing, there is no court, there’s no accusation of any kind, you just go to jail or disappear.

Although things happened very quickly in Chile, we got to know the consequences slowly, because they don’t affect you personally immediately. Of course, there were people who were persecuted and affected immediately, but most of the population wasn’t. So you think: Well, I can live with this. Well, it can’t be that bad. So you are in denial for a long time, because you don’t want things to change so much. And then one day it hits you personally.

For me, it was several things. At the beginning, I was hiding people in my house, because we didn’t know the consequences. We had no idea that if that person was arrested and forced to say where they had been, I would be arrested. Maybe my children would be tortured in front of me. But you learn that later.

By the time I was directly threatened, I said, OK, I’m leaving. And my idea was that I was going to leave for a couple of months and then come back. So I went alone to Venezuela. And then a month later, my husband realized that I shouldn’t go back. And so he left. He just closed the door, locked the entrance door of the house with everything it contained and left to reunite with me in Venezuela. We never saw that house again, and everything it contained was lost, which doesn’t matter at all, because I don’t remember what was in there.

But I do remember the moment when I crossed the Andes in the plane. I cried in the plane, because I knew somehow instinctively that this was a threshold, that everything had changed.


A bit close to home? Did that make you shudder? It did me.

Am I allowed to travel from my new home? If so, I’ll spend my warm (above freezing) weather time in the Highlands of Cape Breton Island. Close enough to the water to be on my boat in 20 minutes. When it gets cold… I don’t know. I’ve never been but Marquesas Islands looks nice on sailing vlogs (I’m looking at you Old Sea Dog).

Given that I’ve spent a pretty decent amount of effort over the past several years learning Spanish, I think I might have to choose to head over to Spain. I’ve still got a ways to go with the language, particularly when it comes to speaking and listening, but I’d like to think that total immersion would accelerate the process dramatically. And if I simply had to treat myselt to a little taste of the mother tongue, England really isn’t all that far away.

More precisely, it’s due to US government tax laws, which require US citizens to file US tax returns even if they’re permanently living outside the country, which places reporting obligations on the bank. Canadian banks, as well, often would prefer not to deal with US ex-pats living in Canada, for the same reason.

There are many things I love about France, but they do tend to be culturally insular, and very protective of their language and culture. You find the same thing in the province of Quebec.

Heh. My American ex-wife, obviously an ex-pat, never made more than was specified in the Canada-US tax treaty, so she never bothered to file with the IRS. If they audited her, they would find that she owed nothing every year anyway.

Me? As a Canadian, if I had to leave, I’d head for Perth, Australia. Not that Australia would accept me at my age, and I cannot bring a wad of money, but as long as we’re playing “what ifs?”, I’d opt for Perth.

Why? It’s a beautiful city. Great public transport. Lots to see and do, and an international airport serving a lot of Asia. The state library subscribes to Canadian news, so I can keep up with happenings at home. The Margaret River wine district is a couple of hours south, and those wines are exquisite. Nice, friendly people. What’s not to like?

Cashed up bogans.

No desirable skills?
https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing

I emigrated at age 70 but had an Australian partner. It is expensive even to apply.

There is a ton of Aus/Canada exchange back and forth.

Might be worth talking to a specialist as you would need one.
joshua@immigrationgurus.com.au
First discussion is free. Tell Josh MacDoc sent you. :wink:

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Skilled Visa Australia | Skilled Independent Visa | Skilled Migration Perth.