You do not "adopt" puppies from PET STORES!

The BBQ Pit
21

Puppy mills, as a general thing, have lots and lots of animals in a really small space. The dogs are crated almost all the time, and the crates are often too small for the dogs to do much more than turn around in. The dogs are often dirty, thin, and poorly muscled, as well as poorly socialized. Poor nutrition, poor sanitation, and poor vaccination protocols all combine to contribute to illness.

If you want to avoid puppy mills or backyard breeders (nearly as bad in a lot of cases, although they tend to have fewer animals), there are some really simple steps to take. Don’t buy from pet stores or through ads in the paper. Get referrals from other breed enthusiasts (the local rescue group for your preferred breed is usually a great place to ask around), and go to the breeder’s site. Look around, and ask questions. Ask to see all the animals, not just the puppies. If any of the animals seem to be living under conditions that aren’t what you’d want for your dog, or they refuse to show you some of the kennels, look elsewhere for your puppy. Ask to see their puppies’ veterinary exam and vaccination records. If the breeder says, “Oh, I vaccinate all my pups myself,” move along. Vaccines sold directly to breeders (through farm stores or catalogs) are often stored improperly, which makes them utterly useless, and there is no substitute for a vet exam to make sure your pup is healthy.

22

Hi,

I’m sorry, I figured that has been in the media enough that most people by now would recognize the term “puppy mill”. Basically, its a breeder that produces dogs for profit. They may specialize in one breed but are most likely to have several different breeds. I don’t think the term has as much to do about the conditions as it does about the intent. Some puppy producers are quite professional, with veterinary staff, clean surroundings, etc- but they are still mass producing dogs with no consideration to the quality of the animal (in other words, not breeding to improve the breed or even preserve status quo- only breeding this dog to this dog because they both are purebreds and possess the papers that state so). Regardless of the conditions of the place, you still have dogs- social creatures- isolated and contained and exploited solely to produce profit. Even at best, they do not get to have a loving family or a stimulating life full of play or rewarding work. They are bred as often as they can and often linebreeding occurs extensively (I see the papers when they come in). Some mills try to have healthy dogs and will cull the unhealthy animals- however many do not do this and will breed indiscriminately any purebred resulting in loads of genetic defects. Many of these defects are not apparent until 2-4 years of age (epilepsy, hip dysplasia for example) Puppies are sold to brokers, sometimes batch style at auction, who then put the pups on the puppy bus/trucks to distribute. The majority of these mills are in the MidWest…so 8 week puppies (thats the required minimum age- although we see many suspiciously young pups around Xmas time) are loaded onto trucks and sent to petstores around the country. The stress of the journey makes these puppies susceptible to many viruses- most commonly Kennel cough but parvo & coronavirus are quite common- they arrive at the puppy store incubating or already showing disease and spread it around when they get there. They may also have a very nasty parasite- spreadable to people btw- or two. If the pup was healthy, the process of leaving the original mill to getting into the new owners arms is at least unpleasant- at worst its hell. If the pup was already unhealthy, small or one of the toy breeds- it could very easily die on the trip or soon after. One thing pet stores love to do is brag on the “vet checks” the pups have- but a vet check only confirms the pup is living and not apparently dying at the moment the vet sees it. If it is up, semi-alert and eating with no obvious or severe symptoms it will pass the vet check. The vet check can’t tell that the pup is incubating parvo, or has a liver shunt (will make it ill later) or another genetic defect. Since most of the pups at that point do have kennel cough, a runny nose will be noted and attributed to that. But distemper in its early stages can look like a common respiratory virus, diarrhea can be stress or just the beginning of parvo.

Even if this process wasn’t so brutal- the ethics are also a problem. Breeders should only provide puppies to approved homes- homes that are committed to raising the pup right, providing socialization and training, and having responsible intentions for the pup (ie, don’t breed it unless its a quality animal). However, pet store pups are an impulse buy- and many breeds in the pet store are a disaster for impulse buyers. Probably the two most popular breeds we have sold in this area are beagles and jack russell terriers. Great breeds but beagles bark constantly (thats what they are supposed to do)- and the most common beagle buyer lives in an apt (in my area). Needless to say, many get given up due to barking. JRTs are a working terrier breed and are highly energetic, destructive and can be disasters with kids if not handled right. But its a small, smooth coated dog- very attractive to apt. dwellers and families who don’t want to deal with massive shedding- but again you have a high strung animal that can be destructive when bored, can become aggressive and unadoptable after the family has given up on it. So even if every thing was all right with providing puppies to pet stores and selling puppies in pet stores- ethically there is no one there to take responsibility for guiding new owners into correct breed choices or to be there for the pup when its new home turns out to be a dud.

Those are just a few of the problems I have with the process… I’m a livestock owner and not an animal rights person at all but I believe strongly in being fair to these animals and proper animal welfare.

23

No - I know what a puppy mill is.

How do you tell if the dogs at a certain pet store are from a puppy mill is my question.

24

alice_in_wonderland, here’s my take on it (and hopefully someone more knowledgable will chime in, too).

You can’t necessarily tell a puppy is from a mill by looking. If there’s a pedigree available, knowledgable people would be able to tell from the lines. I think that AKC pedigress now show OFA number (I could be wrong, though) - OFA is the the U.S. organization that certifies dogs as being free of hip dysplasia, and responsible breeders that breed dogs with a history of this problem will screen their dogs before breeding them. So for some breeds, this is any easy thing to look for. Assuming of course the pedigree actually belongs to the puppy you’re looking at (which is a pretty big assumption).

As far as I’m concerned, though, it ultimately doesn’t matter because no responsible breeder will sell their puppies through a pet shop, because any responsible breeder will want to screen the potential puppy owners. Pet shops legally have to sell to whoever has the money to buy. So by definition, any puppy being sold at a pet store is from an irresponsible breeder, either a large puppy mill or a backyard breeder (which range from mini-mills to unknowledgable people who bred Fluffy to Spike who lives up the block and happens to be the same breed). Some are certainly healthier than others, and some have better dispositions than others, and some will ultimately make good pets. But buying from a pet store is supporting irresponsible breeding.

25

CKC, in the US, is sometimes the Continental Kennel Club, a proud organisation that hands out “pedigrees” out of thin air. Buyer beware. Puppy mills can get their CKC “registration” and sell puppies as “purebred”. The CANADIAN KENNEL CLUB (CKC) is a different entity.

Porcupine is quite right. No responsible breeder goes through a third person to sell their puppies - especially not petshops. All petshop stock is from puppy mills, or from “backyard breeders” who are out to make a quick buck… and/or simply don’t know what they’re doing.

In order to be “Purebred”, dogs must be the offspring of registered parents (AKC, CKC, UKC, ASCA, etc.). In Canada, we had a HUGE issue with Quebec, where there are no laws against puppy mills, and where some mill owners had stolen/obtained Canadian Kennel Club (CKC) papers and faked registrations for puppies. It was a sad incident.

As for the health of purebred animals, if they come from health cleared parents whose hips, hearts, thyroid, elbows and eyes have been screened, they sure as hell are healthier (and sounder of mind) than what I’ve seen come out of puppy mills/petstores…

Smokinjbc made one of the best posts I’ve ever read on the subjet. Thanks much! :slight_smile: Puppymills aren’t the only thing to worry about - brokers, people who buy these breeding dogs at auctions - are often involved in the process. I knew one young girl (whose mother bred/showed tollers) who worked in a pet store who had to return chopped off ears to brokers to prove that puppies had to be put down (for health reasons) so the store could get their money back.

Horrible things, all around.
For more info on health clearances:

http://www.offa.org (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals - they also do thyroid/hearts)

http://www.vet.purdue.edu/~yshen/cerf.html (Canine Eye Registry)

Both my current dogs were placed with me for training as service dogs for a special program - and even though the breeders donated the pups, they still grilled ME for hours on end before they made their final decision. We keep in close contact all the time. I’m proud they chose me and my work to place their pups… and I’ve been really glad to have them to give me all sorts of breed-specific advice!

26

Smokinjbc, that made me cry. I wanna go home right now and hug our Sheltie, Ben (who was a “pet quality,” grown-out, freakishly-huge-for-the-breed sweetie from a fantastic breeder who breeds for health and temperament above all else, now seven years old and the light of our lives and yes we do tell him so at least a hundred times a day).

I actually wish breeding pets for profit were illegal. I’ve never met a responsible breeder who turned a profit more than one year in a row anyway. I’d include at least dogs, cats, and bunnies in that. It’s not like we’re short on supply.

:frowning: :frowning: :frowning:

27

Just noticed that the OFA now keeps track of ALL health clearances, including CERF.

That is very cool.

28

Yeah, that’s a good point Elenfair I once registered a shep x lab with the Continenta Kennel Club just to see if they would. Apparently if you have $20, your dog can be purebred.

29

I don’t think there are any pet stores around here which still sell puppies or kittens. The puppy mill exposes drove the Docktor Pet Center chain out of business. :smiley:

30

Nitpick, but I don’t think they are legally obligated to do any such thing. I doubt they ever would turn away anyone with cold hard cash (or a plastic near equivalent), but they certainly wouldn’t be legally obligated to sell them an animal anymore than you or I would if we were selling a puppy.

31

According to this site (What is a Puppy Mill) 98% of dogs sold in pet stores in the US are from puppy mills.

32

Alice, I’ll agree with porcupine:

The answer to your question is that you must assume that puppies and kittens in a pet store are from mills; you should never buy puppies or kittens from a pet store, period.

First of all, that market needs to be made unprofitable: if nobody buys them, they won’t sell them.

Secondly, if you’re buying a purebreed (which I’m against but I’ve been on too many soapboxes today), you should meet the breeder and see the parents, and the condition they live in: don’t buy from a middleperson. If you’re not in the market for a purebreed, go and rescue a dog that’s in REAL need of a home, from a shelter. As long as the shelters are full, NOBODY has ANY business buying puppies or kittens from pet stores.

33

As filmore and I believe some others have already pointed out, though, you can sometimes adopt shelter animals through a pet store. Our local pet store frequently has kittens from the shelter (often in litters of three or four - I’ve never asked, but they may well have been born at the shelter), and they’re all healthy, well-treated, and well on their way to being totally socialized. I think a lot of it boils down to having a pet store that’s well run, someplace that you can trust. If the fishtanks are full of algae and the birds are picking out their feathers because they have no toys, don’t buy a thing from them. Find a better place.

34

So don’t buy dogs or cats from a pet store. What about birds? I would never buy a bird who didn’t seem healthy and happy, but beyond that, is there some kind of evil background breeding going on with cockatiels, too?

35

Wow, until I realized you were talking about Border Collies I thought you were talking about a black lab named Lucky. My mom is a foster home for the Vegas Valley Humane Society and they rescued this black lab puppy whose hip was crushed. Poor bugger was so thin they couldn’t operate on him right away, so they gave him to my mom to fatten up first. He’s had his operation and is doing great now.

Anyway, saw you were in Vegas so I momentarily thought it was the same dog. But obviously he’s not a border collie.

36

I recently went through the whole puppy-buying process, and was told by one of the breeders that pet stores are often now billing themselves as “breeder representatives” since most people know about puppy mills now. Don’t trust 'em.

37

re: cockatiels. Different market scale; more money in dogs and cats.

38

USDA? The US Department of Agriculture? They are responsible for regulating pet breeders? The same people who grade meat? That doesn’t fill me with confidence.

39

It’s also considered an “exotic” and needs a permit from the Department of Wildlife, Fisheries and Parks."

A pet store in our area actually breeds some of its own exotic birds and has the nursery set up inside a room with glass windows on two sides so you can watch the buggers growing up.

40

I have 2 dogs and they were both rescued from the Humane Society. I have always firmly believed in sparing a dogs life over choosing a fancier dog from a pet store.

Our Pet Smart has “Judy” who rescues pets and then brings them in for adoption. I think this is admirable as her buckets for donations never seems adequatly filled but she keeps plugging away at it.