You don’t fool me a bit, Legomancer. I see what you’re doing.
You’re building your wall up, brick by interlocking brick, until someday soon you’ll be able to say,
“Get back, you fools! This is the Star Wars Discussion Message Board!”
Oh, yes. I’m on to you and your plans.
Ok, lemme get this straight, Mayflower.
If I think that SW is the most foul drek on the face of the planet, a major annoyance while I must see SW fans laying around every single theater in my county, for days on end, obsessing about the newest piece of trash that Lucas has released, and I let you know this, I’m attempting to appear superior and judging you as having “inferior” tastes?
I don’t think so. I’d say it was just someone letting their opinion be known. I just think Lucas’s head is so far up his ass, and his movies complete garbage(made the mistake of watching AI, too). If you like SW, then so be it, I won’t stop you. But when in a thread/conversation in real life, when my opinion and yours clash, don’t go getting all high-and-mighty with me and questioning my tastes in movies(as always happens with the SW crowd), just because I see little to no value in SW.
I see nothing wrong with people liking SW, I just don’t/can’t/won’t appreciate it myself.
Sam
Great. That’s fine. If you don’t like it, whatever. I happen to disagree, but whatever. What people are complaining about is people jumping onto a thread about Star Wars to tell us how stupid it is. And did Lucas make AI? I’m pretty sure it was a Speilberg film.
Look! I have uncovered Legomancer’s secret plans. He chased me and my Miata halfway across town before he swallowed the car up with his garbage truck, but fortunately I stuck the plans in a fire hydrant with instructions to go talk to that dude who plays the pan flute outside of Farragut North. Just look at this:
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See? I told you those SW guys were dangerous.
It ain’t about opinions, GaWd, but when and where to express them. Do you have some overwhelming need to express this “I don’t like Star Wars” opinion every time a Star Wars thread comes up? Will your heart stop and your brain develop an aneurysm if you don’t put those damned Warsies in their place? Will the entire universe come to an end if your Blessed Words Of Anti-Lucasness aren’t shared with the Devout Followers Of The Force?
It’s called “raining on their parade”, and it’s rude.
I’ve got to agree with SPOOFE on that. Last weekend I saw a thread having to do with two recent pop-music flavors of the month. I wanted to have a little fun at the expense of said flavors, but I (am proud to say on my own behalf) resisted the temptation to go into that thread and pee in all their cornflakes. Instead, I started my own thread, titled it in such a way that no one would be confused what it’s point was, and had some fun.
Don’t forget to have fun, GaWd. It’s much more important than being right.
Who said anything about being right or wrong or indifferent to? I responded specifically to mayflower’s post. I don’t play the drive-by poster and fuck with SW people, hell, I don’t even have the drive to do it. But Mayflower seems to think that an opinion, whether in passing, or to shit on someone’s parade is about being “superior” to the other person. I don’t.
And good call, Diku, on the AI flub.
Sam
I think the problem is, GaWd, that in a thread specifically about people who for no reason just want to come in and rain on someone’s parade, you did the exact same thing again - for no reason whatsoever, you told us all that you “think Lucas’s head is so far up his ass, and his movies complete garbage”.
Unbelievable!
But please clarify:
and
SPOOFE: It’s called “raining on their parade”, and it’s rude.
I confess that I am one of those clowns, I suppose. So help this dolt out:
(1) If the thread is in the pit, I can say that I enjoyed Star Wars (ep IV, V), but think that it is hilariously over-rated. (BTW, I hope to see ep II, although I won’t be first in line.)
(2) If the thread is at Cafe Society, and it is about over-rated films OR how sucky Star Wars is, then I can do the same.
(2b) Wait a second, what’s your problem? If it weren’t for swing viewers like myself, Ep II would be wall-to-wall JarJar!! 
(3) If the Cafe thread is oh-boy oh-boy I can’t wait until Star Wars II comes out, I should keep my opinions to myself.
(4) If there was a factual question in GQ about it, extraneous opinions are extraneous. (Ok, that one I knew).
OK, what about
(5) Q: What is your favorite Star Wars Film?
Here, I can say, um #V, I guess. But I should be really polite about it. Maybe I can say, “Though I don’t think that the series is the epitome of Western Accomplishment, I think V is best.” Hm. Should I tone it down some?
(6) Q: Who is your favorite Star Wars character?
[sub]Must… resist… posting… argggg[/sub]
(7) What about if it’s a Star Trek or comic thread, and a Star Wars comparison becomes relevant?
(8) I haven’t looked at the Spidey vs. Jedi thread, but what might be the etiquette there? Am I allowed to note in passing that these are rather juvenile pleasures? I guess not.
I would especially like to hear general comments on this issue of SDMB etiquette. As the board is dedicated to fighting ignorance as opposed to fighting the dark side, I’m not sure how this all fits together.
It would seem that Lego and SPOOFE might want to curb the ignorance-fighting a tad in Cafe Society. But I might be wrong. Seems like that’s an issue that could be discussed.
I’m also not sure if it’s ok to just enjoy anything in pop culture. But I’m even more confused on that issue than I am on this one.
Just say “I like Empire best.” Unless any one is actually saying that Star Wars is the best movie ever, you don’t need to mention that it isn’t. Most people are aware that Star Wars is not the pinnacle of cinema. They aren’t talking about the pinnacle of cinema, they’re talking about Star Wars.
Analogy: The answer to “What is your favorite kind of car?” is not “helicopter.” I’m aware cars can’t fly. I’m not talking about flying vehicles.
The comparison between Star Trek and Star Wars is relevant. The comparison between Star Wars and Citizen Kane is not until some other person does. That person is a doofus. Don’t be the doofus who starts down that path of inappropriate comparisons, whether it is for or against Star Wars. Once the comparing has begun between Star Wars & Citizen Kane, you are justified in laying the smack down.
You’re allowed to do whatever you want. But it’s rude to just walk into a discussion and tell people they’re being juvenile. People discussing Spidey vs. Jedi are most likely aware that it’s a silly discussion. Unless someone is taking things too seriously, you don’t need to tell them.
Basically, unless someone is claiming Star Wars is the best movie ever, don’t assume they need to be told it isn’t. “I like Star Wars” is not the same as “Star Wars is the best movie ever.”
–John
Boy, I wished that the Boards had some sort of “Super Ultra Mega Rolleyes” smiley. :rolleyes: just doesn’t cut it.
There’s a difference between “fighting ignorance” and just being a jackass. In the recent “Worf vs. Chewbacca” thread, there was some smug jackass who came in and berated everyone for even considering the issue. “It’s fiction!” this paragon of wisdom said. “It’s not fighting ignorance!” he continued.
You wanna say that Star Wars sucks? That’s just hunky dory. But do it in the “Do you think Star Wars sucks?” threads instead of “I like Star Wars” threads. Same goes for Star Trek, movies, television shows, food, games, types of computers, electronics, politics, or anything else imaginable. It’s just plain rude, and makes you look petty.
Ok, Spoofe, but I think there is a tradeoff involved.
The fact is, I don’t want to say that Star Wars sucks. I might want to say that it’s a “Space Western” rather than a “Space Opera”. But that last comment, as you so aptly put it, will probably rain on somebody’s parade.
So I guess I’m not suppose to make that distinction in a “Star Wars Rocks” thread. Ok. But most Cafe Society threads are not of the purely rah-rah variety. So I was wondering what sort of threads such a comment, stance or distinction might fit in. For example.
And I listed a number of hypothetical threads and tried to sort out the proper behavior in each.
I don’t think I’ve been a total and complete jackass in past Star Wars threads. Nonetheless, a few of the examples in the OP seemed to be directed at me. (eg Star Wars is a kiddie film (Lucas agrees), The Force is not deep.) So I am wondering what the proper SDMB etiquette is. I’ve grasped the basics, I hope, but I’m not sure I’m ready for the final exam.
I’m with you.
I think Jar Jar’s really an interesting character–and I don’t find him 1/10 as annoying as C-3PO in the original trilogy.
And, obviously, that’s hardly as bad as simply proclaiming “It sucks!” In my opinion, there isn’t a significant difference between “Space Western” and “Space Opera”… the former is just a subset of the latter (again, in my opinion).
But, again, you wouldn’t even mention that if you’re talking about why people love Boba Fett or whether or not a Star Destroyer could beat the Enterprise (answer: It can :D).
Why even bother bringing up something completely irrelevant - indeed, even derailing - to a fun discussion? The answer, I think, is simply to piss people off, or at least to annoy them.
Again I find myself wishing for the Super Rolleyes smiley. How did you get from “Don’t be rude” to “Don’t post your opinion”? Certainly you recognize the difference in tact between “The thing you like sucks” and “I think this should be classified as such-and-such”.
Try this for a thought experiment… replace the term “Star Wars” for, oh, anything. Let’s use “liberalism”. If I were to walk into a thread talking about liberal politics and said “Liberals suck”, what do you think people’s reactions would - and should - be?
Same as always: Don’t be a jerk. In other words, don’t berate someone else’s hobby just to raise ire. If you feel the need to do so, go open another thread and bash all you want. Hell, I’d probably join you, as I’m STILL steamed over Jake Lloyd’s pathetic performance.
No, not really, go read it again after reading Mayflower’s response.
He said that someone chiming in with an opinion contrary to his on this subject was making himself “superior” by looking down upon one’s tastes. Sorry if I think it’s complete and utter bullshit.
Now, I may not run around and fuck with people in their SW threads, but I DO have an opinion on the matter, and it’s the furthest thing from making myself feel superior. It’s just a frigging opinion.
Sam
I know the feeling.
I’m a big Star Wars fan, a Moulin Rouge fan, an Aerosmith fan, and a Mac user.
Uninvited criticism of my tatse in entertainment gets old pretty fast.
Doesn’t work for me. Sure, I agree it’s easy to avoid being blatantly offensive. A better example might be, “Ted Kennedy is hilariously over-rated”. Or: “Liberal political commercials could only persuade a complete idiot.” I actually wouldn’t mind either in a GD thread, as they are not contentless.
But the Cafe is different. You, me, lots of people have developed a certain affection for certain works of art, maybe even works of pap (speaking in a general sense). Lego (I think) believes that some of my observations in Star Wars threads were inappropriate. He may be right. But if that is the case, then he seems to be saying that I should restrain myself more than I do in (for example) GD.
Ok, I say. Gimme the details.
Yeah, but could the Death Star beat the Borg cube? (And what about the Miasma thingy in TOS?):)[sub]Actually, this may be at least part of my problem. How can you discuss this without an aside about how silly this is? Can’t… control… must… wisecrackk…[/sub]
Alas, that’s yet another part of this dolt’s problem. I actually found 3 out of 4 comments by The Intruder to the Worf/Chewie thread to be entertaining. (It was the time allocation bit that I didn’t understand. Why aren’t you fighting ignorance? And, and… you could be feeding the hungry right now.) Perhaps one guideline might be to take extra care to avoid disruptive hijacks in Cafe threads.
Well said. But I had thought that I had kept my Star Wars comments lighthearted. But given our attachment to our art-hobbies, I’m beginning to suspect that tact may have to crowd out dialogue somewhat. Or maybe I’m just veering into paranoia. Or something.
Yue Han: Thanks for the feedback.
jjtm: Yeah, maybe the guideline is to avoid needling people for their guilty pleasures (in my case) or simply taste in music/movies/microcode/whatever.
To be fair, Flowbark, I’m not referring to any comments of yours in particular. I’m generally referring to people who will take any opportunity to deride something they don’t like, even if it’s inappropriate.
Another example of this behavior would be Abe’s comments in the most recent K-PAX thread… the OP was asking for an explanation about the end, and all Abe could do was berate the movie and espouse the virtues of another. This, in my opinion, is just low-class… if you feel so strongly about something like that, then go open a new thread (or go find a thread in which those comments would be on-topic).
This is not to say, of course, that hijacks should always be avoided. The casual saying of “I didn’t like such-and-such” is not what I’m against (far from it). It’s when a person gets vehement or antagonistic with their comments that I think they cross the line.
Okay, all I’m talking about is this. If you want to talk about how much you dislike something, do it in the appropriate thread. Start one of your own if you feel like it. But don’t go into the “Do you think Qui-Gon was an example of a failed Jedi?” thread just to get your yay-ya’s out about how much Star Wars sucks.
For example - it’s clear (I think to most people) that if someone started a thread called “Looking for good HTML editing software for Mac” it would be inappropriate to go in there specifically to dog on Macs. Right? Or in a thread called, say, “Thoughts on last night’s West Wing” would you go in and say, “I don’t know how anyone can watch that show. It’s complete suck from start to finish.”
I can’t stand the movie ‘Batman’. If someone wants to ask which of the Batman movies is the best, I have no answer, because I think they’re all crap. And sometimes it’s hard to resist going in and saying so. But I try to resist. Similarly, I would try to abstain from the “Batman the movie appreciation thread”. If I felt I simply couldn’t contain my ire for Batman and those who like it any more, I might head for a convenient overrated movies thread or start one about how much I think Batman sucks.
It’s just about courtesy.
That’s point the first. Point the second is that perhaps I’m overly sensitive, being a SW fan, but many of the comments I’ve seen lately seem to be prompted by thoughts of, “Ooh look at those SW fans going on about that stupid new movie. I need to really let some air out of their balloon.” Many times it seems that not only does the person not like SW, but is upset that others do. This is just my personal feeling and, since I’m not equipped with the ability to look at a post and instantly know the thoughts that generated it, it could very well be wrong. If I’m not wrong, then point the second is, do you have to be a jerk? I know we all do this from time to time. And I know from my own reactions and behavior, which I haven’t always been able to curb, that it’s very tempting (and in some ways fun) to do just that - see something someone else likes that you don’t and purposely go into their thread and post against it, just to stir shit and crap on the parade. Ha! That’ll teach them to like Batman! If I do this, I’m an asshole, and hopefully someone will equally call me on it.
Now obviously if the thread is already inclusive of criticism (“Is Star Wars overrated?” “What are your opinions on Star Wars?” “Does Star Wars mean anything to you?”) then by all means express your hatred for Star Wars and its fans down to seventeen decimal places.
As a side note, when expressing your dismay, there’s really no need to also slam George Lucas’ writing and directing abilities, nor his casting abilities. While you may find his talent in these areas wanting, rest assured that the majority of fans do too. Unlike, say, with Babylon 5, there’s very little love for George among SW fans. You want to complain about the glut of merchandise? Again, most fans won’t argue with you. You want to talk about how The Force is not a deep concept? I think you’ll have a tough time finding a fan who will argue that it is.
All I’m saying is, don’t be a dick. There’s no need to go into a thread where fans are politely discussing whatever they’re fans of and crap on them because they have the nerve to like something you don’t.
I just wanted to say one thing:
HAN SOLO SHOT GREEDO FIRST!!
So there.
Ok, I’ll go now.
Sorry.