You just think you do.

Another thread, “dreaming colors” in GQ, reminded me of this, uh, question. I would have put it there but any time it’s come up before it’s quickly turned into a debate. Mostly in rehab, where I was forced to go for using pot. But also about other topics, in other situations.
Anyway, the counselors would ask for reasons to smoke pot, and several answers would come forth. To wit:
[ul]
[li]Sex is better.[/li][li]Food tastes better.[/li][li]Music sounds better.[/li][li]I feel better, Etc.[/li][/ul]
To which they (the counselors) would, without fail, reply “No, you just think those things are better”.
Well, if you think that these things are better, are they not? I mean it’s all subjective stuff, right?
b enjoy some things more when I’m stoned.
I hope I’ve made my point clear. :slight_smile:
Peace,
mangeorge (Woo Hoo, bullets!)

Got the bullets rifgt, but can’t do bold! Got my b’s & i’s backwards.
The sentence should have read;
I enjoy…
My humble apologies.
Peace,
mangeorge

I had a friend who had to go to an eight hour “remedial” class for pot possession. Before he went he dropped acid.

It got better. :shrug:

And your last toke was when?

Rifgt!

mangeorge

I’m not coming from a moralizing standpoint. I used to smoke hash but had a low tolerance for the nausea that accompanied it…so I lost interest.

Your points are valid in terms of activities in which you alone participate or in which you engage other people who are stoned.

However, since I have had many relationships, of all sorts, with pot smokers, I can tell you that my pleasure in their company DECREASES drastically when they are stoned and I am not. This is not a value judgement about their pot smoking. This is merely the effect of the drug which makes them self-absorbed, contributes to their inability to follow a conversation, and generally makes any type of intimate (either friendship or romantic) connection impossible.

Unlike alchoholics, who are aware that their behavior is less than a stellar reflection of who they are when they are drunk, many pot smokers seem to be under the misimpression that pot makes them cleverer, charming, witty, creative, etc. The truth is, if you’re not stoned with them, they’re flat out boring. I think that’s the difference they were trying to point out to you.

However, hang out with other stoned people and there’s no reason to quit…problem solved. :slight_smile:

[hijack]Too much of anything fucks you up.

Too much:

Money
Power
Sex
Masturbation
Weed
Acid
Coke
Drugs in general
Water (hey, it’s happened)
Anything

I’m all for recreational use of drugs for people who want to use them, I myself have not used any though.

But, I simply defy anyone to find me proof that an adult who tokes lets say… twice a month, fucks himself over drastically.[/hijack]

Back to the matter at hand.

The world is truly in the eye of the beholder.
The only problem is, if 99.999% of the population tells you apples taste sweet, but to you they taste like shit, then in your mind they are just organic shit. How you view something is how life is, according to you. This all travels along the same line of “How do you know your life isn’t a dream and everything is a figment of your imagination?” You are just gonna have to trust your mind.

I understand all that, Norea. I’m not blind, nor am I insensitive. Although I do know some women who would disagree with you (endurance). And I’d much rather be straight around a bunch of potheads than a bunch of drunks. Absolutely. Pot effects people in different ways. 'Tis the nature of the beast.
And that was definitely not the point the counselors were trying to make. They were saying that these judgements were not real because of the pot.
But my whole point isn’t about drugs. It’s about perception. If I enjoy something more, regardless of the catalyst, the enjoyment is real. Because the quality that enjoyment is subjective.
If I watch a sunrise, and it makes me happy, and that happiness increases my enjoyment of a cup of coffee, isn’t that real? Of course it is.
Holding a tiny baby makes me happy, and enhances my enjoyment of the company of that babies parents. That’s real.
See what I’m getting at?
Some people (not me :frowning: ) enjoy sex more when they use, uh, appliances. That’s also real.
Many foods taste better with a glass of wine.
But there are those who say that these enjoyments are all in one’s mind. You only think they’re better.
Any pleasure, or displeasure, is in one’s mind. And real.
Am I ranting? Well, :stuck_out_tongue:
Peace,
mangeorge

For some reason the anti drug faction of the world can never allow itself to face one overwhelmingly obvious fact. There is a very simple reason why people take recreational drugs. Because it feels good.

The dumbest thing of all is people who have never done drugs trying to tell that to people who have done drugs. It’s stupid. The people who don’t realize that it is stupid are just so self deluded that you should never try to dissuade them of their opinions. They can be very dangerous if you challenge these assumptions.

Now, don’t mistake me, drugs are a bad deal, every time, all of them. Even pot or aspirin are a bad deal. But the thing that is wrong with pot, or smack, or cocaine, or speed isn’t that they make you miserable. They don’t make you miserable, they make you euphoric. They make you feel good.

They also fuck up your internal chemistry, and unfortunately that affects every aspect of your self. The chemicals you take alter all your personality, your intellect, your character, your health, and your very innermost essence of being. That also includes the ones your psychiatrist wants you to take, and that’s another point the anti drug faction won’t face up to. Drugs are drugs, and opinions on taking them are opinions. Some opinions have the weight of law.

But very little of what you get from drugs cannot be had without drugs, and if you take drugs your ability to accomplish that thing will be diminished. If you take drugs to be happy, you won’t be able to be happy without drugs as easily. So you are specifically reducing the inherent capacity you have for the one thing you most want, by trying to get it easy. Bad deal.

mangeorge: I agree. Your perceptions aren’t worth any less simply because of the mental state you’re in.

Tris: I disagree. Very little of what you get from anything can’t be found somewhere else.

“So you are specifically reducing the inherent capacity you have for the one thing you most want, by trying to get it easy.”
A person will probably appreciate something less if he doesn’t have to work as hard for it, but that’s true about anything - it’s like arguing that restaurants are bad because a steak dinner you buy isn’t as meaningful as one you spend hours cooking.

mangeorge,

I’ve always considered the pleasure and enjoyment to be quite real. Substance-enhanced experiences can even be profound. Euphorogenic compounds (pot, coke, opiods, etc) exert their effects by virue of activating the same brain regions that “true” happiness activates.

However, these experiences need to be kept in perspective. You can easily get too much of a good thing. It’s like vacations; they feel best when you really deserve them. Work your tail off, accomplish the goals you’ve set, and then go off to some tropical paradise for a week to enjoy yourself. But how would 52 weeks a year of 24/7 tropical paradise feel? It has a certain appeal, I admit, but after a while, wouldn’t your enjoyment be something of a facade?

IMHO the rehab staff automatically assumes that their clientele abuse drugs in order to get that perpetual vacation in paradise. It’s their rhetoric. People check themselves in rehab because drug use is affecting their lives in an unmanagebly negative manner. Too many vacations.

Perhaps the best way to judge if a substance-induced experience or experiences truly increase one’s enjoyment of life is to take a long range perspective. Over a lifetime, does substance use enhance one’s enjoyment of one’s own life? I would argue that it can, but that a propensity for positive outcomes will vary person to person and substance to substance.

I don’t know the circumstances of your entry into rehab, but by being there, you were fit to the definition of a substance user with an overall negative outcome. So the question becomes how can one claim that one’s enjoyment of substance use was real, if it helped to create, when viewing one’s life from a broader perspective, an array of pain and problems?

mangeorge

Very intelligent reply.
All I can say is that I think the counselors were attempting to make a point regarding the use of a substance in order to avoid unhappiness by masking it.

As far as I’m concerned, if I ingest any substance in order to avoid dealing with life (even if it makes me happy while I’m under it’s influence) that’s not happiness.

That said, I know a few yuppies who live in absolute denial without substances of any sort and I don’t think there’s an adult on this planet who hasn’t been involved in “rebound” relationship at some point. These things are as much about denial/distraction from reality as the use of a substance.

Hmm…Perhaps a Yuppie Rehab Clinic ™ is in order. :wink:

…oh, and as for

Uhm…doesn’t marijuana effect one’s sense of linear time? :stuck_out_tongue:

Norea cleverly adds;

Yes, But then, so does a glass of wine.
Actually I was speaking from the non-users (the woman’s) POV. But yes, and one’s own sense of pleasure is exactly what I’m talking about.
BTW; I was never a chronic user, so I can’t speak from that circumstance.
Peace,
mangeorge

Actually, it is not the absence of work which compromises your ability to have pleasure, it the chemical saturation of the neural, and the psychological equipment you have for being happy. This is the reason smackers always try to recreate that rush from the first hit, or why speed freaks degenerate into complete senslessness in the absence of their drug.

While the effect is more subtle with pot, liquor, caffine, sugar, or other drugs, it is still there. Drugs for pleasure don’t create anything pleasurable, they just stimulate the response of pleasure. After the direct stimulation, those things which would normally be pleasing are less so.

I love the description of the effects of MJ on the DEA home page:

Well golly, why would anybody want to experience that? Those dumb drug users!