When I was a topless dancer, we had to wear makeup, our thong and top had to match, and we had to wear high heels no shorter than 3 inches.
BWHA HA HA!
That’s what I’d do right into someone’s face if they pulled that line on me! (Shades of the “I’m fat so you hate me?” thread dancing in my brain)
I’d then go on to tell them how they could slowly work their way up from being a talking dung heap to being something resembling a real human. By the time I was done with their sorry ass I doubt they’d ever speak to me again.
Bonus all around, I think!
Re: women who cannot fathom that there are other women out there who can manage to go out in public sans makeup…
This is true. There are people who need to validate their compulsive need to do something, and they get really shook up to encounter those of us who don’t give a damn.
I had an experience several years ago that sort of relates to this issue:
I have been overweight (to varying degrees) almost all my life, and have always felt FAT FAT FAT. I was size 24 for quite a while, and was always saddled with the intense feeling of “I won’t be complete until I’m thin thin thin!” Then I tired of this bad feeling, got tired of wasting my life feeling like crap.
For health reasons, I got down to a size 14, which, compared to size 24, IS thin thin thin. Or close enough for me. I felt so great, and, I really didn’t look all that bad either. I expressed my satisfaction with my current size (daring to say that I didn’t care if I never lost any more weight - I was so grateful to be a size 14, after all!) The response from most of my friends (who were mostly smaller than size 14, and still felt they were “too fat”) was disapproval. I suspect they were thinking “How DARE she be happy? How DARE she say she’s going to stop feeling fat and hideous!!! She’s fatter than we are!!!”
yosemitebabe – I KISS you!
The thought that some have a, “how DARE you?!” attitude just kicks me into high gear!
Oh, please! How dare I feel good for all that I’ve done?! Oh, how dare I see where I’ve been and see where I am now and feel good?!
BWHA HA HA!
This to me is like the MS argument where he wanted to know how to tell who had lost weight so that he wasn’t wasting his verbal assaults on those who didn’t “deserve” it! Ha ha ha! Like ANYONE deserves that shit!
Let me put it this way: Wear what you like! Make up, clothing, jewelry, anything that you enjoy and you feel makes you happy! I LOVE it! I’ll tell you that right now I can’t think in my own mind that I want all women to be like me… I don’t. But I DO want each woman and man for that matter, to wear and do what they are comfortable with.
If dresses just aren’t you, don’t wear them. If make-up isn’t your bag, please don’t bother because someone tells you too! Be yourself! Do what you feel is okay with you… and give other’s the same right!
All of us in our own singular way are beautiful, wonderful, attractive people!
On the other hand, Dinsdale, I’ve never seen a bunch of straight women get together and go out at night to beat up a lesbian.
I thought I’d posted this yesterday, but apparently my network decided to crap out on me. Anyway.
Prettiness (which is the physical aspect of beauty) is a relative term. Some people like one thing, others a completely different one.
I say that because, in the case of lee, this is clearly true. While her husband sees her and is doubtessly infatuated with her beyond cure, her coworker can’t see part some aspect of her which she thinks would look better if, basically, it were different.
So, lee, if you haven’t already done so, forget about your coworker. Some people are unable to get past the physical aspect of someone to find out who they really are. The people who can are the fortunate ones.
Zette, I swear on all things beautiful (pardon me while I swear on you for a bit), if you ever color your hair or think you need to put on makeup I will come over there. You will not like it (well, maybe you will . . . I haven’t decided what I’d do yet).
Lucie, if you could send one of those nieces my way, preferably non-madeup (that’s my preference), I’d be grateful.
Yosemitebabe: I, for one, much prefer a size 14 to a size 2. You just can’t hug 'em! Not without being afraid of squooshing them. This is why I like people who have a bit of padding:)
BillyBoy said: "No, but seriously, why get angry about someone else’s advice? If you are comfortable with how you look, then who gives a damn what your coworkers have to say? They ain’t worth the energy."
I think the point some of them (us) are trying to make is that people insist they (we) would look better if we did something they like. Tastes differ, clearly. People in high school thought I was one of the nastiest things they’d ever encountered. I’ve run into opposing views here. lee’s husband is obviously incurably in love with her, whereas her coworker has different tastes. I think it’s when someone says it in a way that intimates its factuality that we get irked. For example, people who tell me I would look better with shorter hair: “Why is that?” “I think guys with short hair look better.” “Then that’s your opinion:)”
Thus why I say, when I think someone is physically or otherwise attractive, I say so. “I think” X thing about you. Not “You are” X thing.
Yeah, like my nieces don’t have men (and women) lined up waiting for them to get free. And they all go in jeans, t-shirts and no makeup, except when professional required. As soon as I get my scanner working, I’m going to post the picture of the youngest and tell everyone it’s me.
Weight has always been a big issue for me as well. I come from a fat family with awful eating habits, and so I’ve been on a diet for about the past 25 years. I will never be fasionably thin, always managing to be a couple sizes over the constantly changing ideal. Girls in western countries cannot reach the age of 6 without being aware that they fail to measure up. In high scool in the anorexic late '70’s I was a size seven, and considered fat because no-one who mattered was over a size three. I don’t think anyone needs to point out that someone “needs” to lose 10, 20 or 150 lbs. Do they really think we are unaware that society considers us fatally flawed because we don’t match some commercially determined ideal?
In related news, I saw a really frigging scary show on cosmetic surgery. What the hell are women thinking when they choose to get botulism injected into their face to paralyze muscles that create wrinkles? Or get fat suctioned out their hips? I’m not talking about reconstructive surgery here, or even a bit of rhinoplasty. I’m talking about repeated, painful, expensive, intrusive procedures that you can die during so you can look a few years younger for 4-6 months?
I’d bet a years pay (for most of you that’s about a weeks pay :-p) that Lucie is a very beautiful woman that doesn’t need to “fix herself up” with a ton of makeup and trinkets. From what I’ve seen she has a great personality, a sweet feminine aura and a good attitude and outlook. Fuck anyone that wants to change you , Lucie (well not literally, but you know what I mean). For the record, and for all you dark haired women that have bleached your hair, you look so stupid with that blonde hair and those dark eyebrows. But I’m sure the blonde hair does get you attention. ANd I suppose that’s the desired affect. If you like shallow people. Men can be pretty shallow when it comes to blonde hair for some reason. I love a natural blonde. But red hair and brown hair and black hair are just as beautiful. If you’re a slob then that’s different and it says a lot about your personality. I do know for a fact that blonde hair gets you attention. A friend of mine has brown hair and she has always tried to break into television braodcasting. As in a newscaster or something of that sort. No luck until she bleached her hair, and the BAM! things started to change. She has gotten a lot of oppurtunities since then. What a shallow world we live in. And to think so many people think they are soooo deep. Things that fucking make ya go “Hmmmmm”.
That’s a very good point. It’s always nice to be able to see both sides of the fence.
Magdalene, I smell a business opportunity. If only you’d seen what MisterTot wore yesterday…sigh.
Back to the OP, I get that kind of crap from my Mother all the time. In fact, I’m not sure she’s ever said one nice thing about my appearance. Well, at least not a nice thing without ten buts trailing behind. She’s of the opinion that my long, pretty much unstyled but neatly brushed hair makes me look like a farm girl. And what’s wrong with being a farm girl, anyways?
And I’ve actually had a man tell me “You’d look hotter if you were a blonde”. Hello?!?! I’m Korean, we just don’t look right blonde. Plus, I’ve always found that the whole “blonde=devastingly attractive without fail” thinking just plain weird. Of course, I couldn’t come up with a witty comeback at the time, when I think of one, I’ll be sure and call him. 
I was told repeatedly, “A lady is nothing if she is not beautiful, and a lady will take all pains needed to be beautiful.”
The only pain I can see you having, lee, from being beautiful . . . well, actually I can see a couple. Women looking in jealousy, men looking in jealousy, people who don’t see you as beautiful, and people who peddle fanny may cosmetics and give up on you b/c you don’t need it.
And yes, folks, I know she’s taken. Here is someone who could have a better opinion of herself.
lucie, I coulda gathered about your nieces. Can’t blame me for trying.
I just had a mental image of a bunch of bleach-blonde, Tammy Faye make-up wearing bimbos in high heels hanging out by the lesbian bar, waiting for a seriously butch ‘dyke’ to come out so they can beat her up. Ha Ha Ha.
The only “if you…” I ever get is from my husband. He wishes I’d lose a little weight (in his defence, I have gained more than a few lbs since we got married.) Not because he thinks I’m ugly (quite the opposite,) but because the clothes for fat chicks pretty much suck.
As for other people, when you have purple hair, or a shaved head plus tats and facial piercings, they know you’re a lost cause and tend to leave you alone. I did get the “why do you do that to yourself, you’re such a pretty girl” sometimes, though. I never gave a shit, I thought I looked pretty damned good.
Now that I look normal, no one even notices me. 
Well, it’s not written that men have to wear make-up but they do have their own dress code. It’s “understood” that men don’t have to wear make-up and skirts and no one complains. We are also required to wear a skirt or dress on Fridays. The men are required to wear dress-up pants and shirt and tie on that day. Appearance is everything in my line of work, hence the rules. When you are hired you are told that those are the rules, so if you don’t like it then you don’t have to work there (I mean “you” as in “in general”, not you specifically, Zette:)).
Saturdays are casual days, but that only means you have permission to wear jeans. We still have to follow rules as in what kind of shirt we can wear and the hair and make-up still applies. We can wear shorts, but our legs have to be tan. The first thing you learn in beauty school is: appearance is everything. If you came into a salon and the person who is going to do you looks like a slob, would you want them to do you? People have told me that they went into a salon, looked around then left because they didn’t like the appearance of the stylists (appearance as in, looked sloppy, not that they didn’t like their looks) and by the same token one of the reasons they chose our salon was that we looked like we care about our appearance.
Not only do we have to have our hair done, it has to be stylish (not necessarily curled. I don’t curl my hair). I don’t mind the rules, I am what you’d call a “girly-girl”. I’ve always liked dressing up (I don’t even own a pair of jeans…well, I do have a pair of denim shorts).
But don’t think I’m the type to look down at people who don’t worry about hair and make-up. Heck, I’m on vacation and I haven’t worn any make-up the whole time. I give advice about hair and make-up, but only when asked because that’s my job. If people don’t ask I don’t offer. I’d hate it if someone came up to me and told me how to change my appearance.
Yikes! That was long! Sorry!
My sister in law, Lori, worked with one of these women.
Co-worker: We have got to do SOMETHING with those eyebrows of yours!
Lori: I know of SOMETHING you can do with that shitty attitude!
End of problem.
I prefer the 50-75% black wardrobe, with a few whites and greys, and some bright red when I need some colour. (It’s a no-brainer! Any two or three items can mix and match with everything, and most of it can be washed in one load without separating it)But in high school, I dated a guy who said that I’d look so much better in bright colours. Whatever, I thought.
A few days later, I was walking by a Le Chateau (for you non-Canadian types, it’s a mall chain that sells cheap, trendy, colourful clothes that will fall apart at about the same time that the trend is over.) and they had all these orange clothes in the window. Aha! You want colour? I’ll show you colour, buddy! So I went in, and for about 30 bucks got:
-An orange t-shirt.
-An orange skirt
-Orange “Keds”-type runners
I looked like I was ready to signal in planes at the airport. Or like a human traffic cone. Oddly enough, after seeing me in this get up he really seemed to like the understated, minimal black wardrobe. Hmmmm.
I can’t deal with people who offer me unsolicited advice about how I’d look better. It bugs me to no end.
I have a few people that I ask for advice about, because I do try to look decent occasionally, but not being a fashion maven, I really don’t know anymore what’s hip. When it comes to clothing, I stick to stuff that a) fits me, and b) doesn’t make me look like a total dweeb. I take my mom’s advice about not mixing plaids & prints. That’s about it.
I ask my Mary Kay lady and my hair stylist for advice on makeup & hair. That’s what I pay them for. They are good at what they do. I like them. Especially my hair stylist. He’s not afraid to discuss things like age and my personal situation when it comes to hair care & styles, stuff I actually need to know, but didn’t have time to consider when I came in screaming about how I hate my hair.
If I ask you for advice, give it. If I don’t, then keep it to yourself.
I love make-up. Sometimes, even if I’m not going out somewhere, I’ll put it on, just because I have fun with it, and it’s a way to occupy myself. On the other hand, if I’m feeling lazy in the mornings, I will wake up, shower, brush my hair, and that’s it. No make-up, blow-drying or even contacts.
I’ve never been told to wear make-up, or do this or that to myself, but I did have an interesting conversation with my ex-boyfriend a few weeks ago that went something like this:
Him: You might be insulted by this, but I can pinpoint why you’re not beautiful.
Me: blinking Why?
Him: Because you don’t think you are.
Opinions on this? Can a person be beautiful without much self-confidence?
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Beauty is a relative concept. What is beautiful to one person is butt-ugly to another.
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My definition of beauty includes some measure of self-confidence: not so much that a person doesn’t think s/he deserves everything and more, but that s/he has a good opinion of him/herself. So, I’ve known people who, while they were physically very attractive, and they had lovely personalities, they didn’t have much confidence in anything they did. This tends to manifest itself in ways such that the person doesn’t carry him or herself well, which can be a turn-off for some.
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Ergo, a person cannot be truly beautiful to me without some measure of self-confidence, or abiltiy to believe that they are beautiful to another person.
The person to whom you responded is my oldest daughter. You saw her picture. Interesting about our perceptions.
The pictures on her site and the one I’d seen previously are different . . . nice to see some changes (angie, if you want to know what I’m talking about, feel fre to email).
Spider Woman: what, no “Welcome my daughter!” thread? What gives? I wanted to tell her not to ask about felch, squick and going in the Pit . . . but apparently she’s just done the latter of those.