JFT. Personally, I’ll throw in a post or two to ATMB if I think a mod made a bad call. If there’s an important principle under discussion, or a major policy change is being contemplated I might make compose a carefully thought out post and defend it a few times.
But if all that’s under discussion is a run-of-the-mill mod decision, I can’t imagine caring deeply about it.
No one expects them not to make mistakes, ever.
But we do expect them to own up to them when pointed out, rather than struggling to maintain an illusion of infallibility that wasn’t all that convincing in the first place.
Seriously, what’s wrong with “Oops, you’re right. Warning rescinded.”
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:23, topic:593744”]
We don’t issue warnings and mod notes because we don’t like people. We don’t issue them to rile people up. We don’t issue them because we’re power-hungry (c’mon - any mook can set up a message board and be a mod. Our “power” is nothing to flaunt).
[/quote]
This is why *you *do things, Gary. You are not every mod on this board. And to handwave away the idea that anyone would enjoy being a mod here because of the power it gives them because “any mook can set up a message board” is completely disingenuous. Being the owner of a one-person community is not the same as being a mod in one with over 10,000 active members.
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:25, topic:593744”]
How about if we just move on? It’s just message board warnings. It’s not like the person who reviews your next job application will be basing his decision on them.
[/QUOTE]
If it doesn’t matter, then why are you moderating here? If it’s important enough for you to volunteer your time to help administrate, then it’s important enough for other people to get upset about being potentially banned from for no good reason.
They knew what they were getting into when they signed up. I’ve moderated a larger community that this one, and while I was there we actually had a big group of whiners start a campaign to get a chunk of us kicked out 'cause they thought we were too mean. We didn’t warn them, we didn’t ban them–we laughed at them and ignored them, and when they came at us with accusations, we had the rules of the community ready to back us up (and *not *just the “'cause I said so” one).
Being a volunteer doesn’t give you a free pass to do a shitty job. When you agree to take on the role, that means making *abso-fucking-lutely certain *that you understand the rules of the community, so that your decisions are the right ones, and not just based on your personal preferences.
ETA: And as **CG **observes, it means that when someone points out that some action you took wasn’t in line with any previously existing rule, it means it’s your job to either apologize and retract the action, or to clarify and establish the new rule.
Why? As Shot From Guns said, we have over 10,000 active members here. I would be willing to bet that well over 9,000 of them have never received a mod note or warning. There are probably fewer than 100 people who have posted ATMB threads complaining about moderator actions. There are probably fewer than 25 that have participated in multiple complaint threads.
As a moderator, I have no issue at all with someone starting an ATMB thread to question one of my decisions. However, when somebody jumps into every single ATMB mod thread to complain, it gets old very, very quickly.
I am absolutely not being disingenuous. You vastly overestimate the power that mods here have.
You have a valid point here, SFG. It is a community, and it can mean a lot to some of us. But some of these threads can go on for dozens of posts after the goal of the thread is achieved (a warning reversed, a mod apology, whatever).
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:64, topic:593744”]
Why? As Shot From Guns said, we have over 10,000 active members here.
[/QUOTE]
Lighten up, Francis. I’m pretty sure it was a joke.
ETA:
In case you don’t get it:
You said: “Then there’s that tiny fraction of users that will take umbrage at virtually anything said by virtually any staff member.”
Then he said, “I am incredibly offended by those statistics.”
As a preface to an apology, I’d say this has a particularly belligerent tone to it. if he really doesn’t want a further discussion, the first recommendation I’d make would be to apologize when he means to apologize, and not to antagonize the person he’s apologizing to.
And then I said, “Whoops! I missed that whooshing sound over my head.”
Sorry 'bout that.
You might not know this but Dex is not only out of town but where he is sitting right now is directly in the path of Irene. I seriously doubt he will be returning to this thread anytime soon – he has lots of other things to contend with right now. I hope you don’t hold that against him.
Not at all. I’m sitting in Irene’s path, too, and looking forward to the storm. I don’t want a response from Dex, just pointing out how his tone didn’t suit the peaceful aims that **Gary **was calling for.
or
LOOK! OVER THERE!
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:67, topic:593744”]
And then I said, “Whoops! I missed that whooshing sound over my head.”
Sorry 'bout that.
[/QUOTE]
Apologies on my part too.
Tensions seemed to be getting high, so I thought I’d add a little levity with a joke. I certainly didn’t mean to add any fuel to the fire.
I was debating on whether to add a smiley-face emoticon or not when I wrote my post. In the end I decided to go for the subtle approach, and left it off. Which I guess, didn’t work!
Anyway, thanks to mhendo for noticing this.
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:64, topic:593744”]
As a moderator, I have no issue at all with someone starting an ATMB thread to question one of my decisions. However, when somebody jumps into every single ATMB mod thread to complain, it gets old very, very quickly.
[/quote]
There are multiple mods here who have a track record of making rash decisions that are in line with their own personal preferences versus the rules of the board and have to be browbeaten into reversing them. Every. Single. Time. (Which also gets old very, very quickly.) Those sorts of people also tend to be the least likely to being open to revisiting their past decisions, possibly because they know they were out of line and don’t like to admit it. You are not every mod.
I also feel like there’s a bit of a strawman about the hypothetical user who “jumps into every single ATMB mod thread to complain.” I don’t know of anyone who does that, just as I don’t know of any mod who makes all bad decisions.
Then you’re just plain naive;* and I’m not overestimating. I’ve been a moderator in a community larger than this one, an op in very large IRC channels, etc., and I know *exactly *the sorts of people those roles can attract, because I have direct experience with them. Even small amounts of power have the potential to be abused, whether unintentionally or by design.
Moderators here have the power to uphold the laws of the community. Some people use that as an opportunity to instead attempt to mold the community into what they want it to be, regardless of whether or not those preferences match the actual rules they have the power to enforce. The only method regular users have to challenge that kind of abuse of power is to bring it up in a forum like this one.
*I mean this not as an insult, but to state what I see as the fact that you have a view of reality that is overly optimistic, colored by a lack of experience with the less-than-admirable motivations some people can have.
Sometimes the point isn’t just about the specific incident, but about a greater pattern: the same mod making the same mistakes, a general attitude toward the regular members of the board, a tone that would garner a warning or a ban for anyone who wasn’t a mod, etc.
As **prr **also points out, “You can dish it out , but you can’t take it” doesn’t sound much like an apology to me. If someone “apologizes” to me with an insult, I’m damn well going to call them on it.
Those who might be looking for comment from Dex …
Dex is not available … he is not only away from the boards but he is currently on the Northeast coast. We don’t know when he’ll be back.
Yup, so you said. Hopefully he gets his power back soon if it’s out!
ETA: In a general “it sucks not to have power” sense, not a “so he can reply to this thread” sense, of course.
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:23, topic:593744”]
May I step in for a moment?
[/QUOTE]
[Tony Soprano]
Don’t pretend like we got a choice.
[/Tony Soprano]
Sorry. I always wanted to use that line.
Is this thing on?
And that reminds me… where is Dex? 
OK. I think I’ve added enough to this discussion.
Don’t make me come back and tell you what I really think, either. Go post in some other thread.
The greater pattern here being that you’re going to get involved and complain whether the problem is fixed or not; whether the problem involves you or not; whether you’ve even dealt with the mod in question or not?
I’m sorry if that sounds snarky, Shot From Guns, but it’s become clear to me that you’re simply looking for every opportunity to attack the mods, and you’re going to put the worst possible spin on everything that happens. Call me naive all you want, but I see the mod selection process here and you don’t. This isn’t a collection of power-hungry assholes - it’s a collection of pretty good people who sometimes get fed up with the abuse.
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:76, topic:593744”]
… it’s a collection of pretty good people …
[/QUOTE]
Some are, some aren’t.
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:76, topic:593744”]
This isn’t a collection of power-hungry assholes - it’s a collection of pretty good people who sometimes get fed up with the abuse.
[/QUOTE]
I can only imagine how you guys feel when you are on the receiving end of that abuse - hell, I couldn’t take it.
I’m not defending Shots and I think there are many great mods here (and have said as much previously) but I would point out that regardless of how good a person might be, that doesn’t mean they make a good moderator.
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:76, topic:593744”]
The greater pattern here being that you’re going to get involved and complain whether the problem is fixed or not; whether the problem involves you or not; whether you’ve even dealt with the mod in question or not?
[/QUOTE]
It seems to me that this really has to with certain mods, and 1 in particular. But if a person really likes this board, and really thinks that a particular mod is bad at it and shouldn’t be a mod, and really thinks that the board would be better off without that person modding, then why wouldn’t they get involved every time they see that person make another modding mistake?
I don’t know, Panda. If you read this thread and the other ATMB threads about mod actions, it doesn’t appear to be just about one mod. Not even “certain mods.” We all get our turn in the piñata. Last week was Dex. The week before was Czarcasm. I think Twix was the week before that. I’ll probably be next if I don’t shut up now 