But by my reckoning about one quarter of all complaints about mods relate to something Czarcasm did. There’s only one other who comes close for the sheer quantity of complaints. And while most complaints against mods are discussed and dismissed, a high proportion of complaints against Czarcasm are proved to be valid.
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:76, topic:593744”]
The greater pattern here being that you’re going to get involved and complain whether the problem is fixed or not; whether the problem involves you or not; whether you’ve even dealt with the mod in question or not?
I’m sorry if that sounds snarky, Shot From Guns, but it’s become clear to me that you’re simply looking for every opportunity to attack the mods,…
[/QUOTE]
Nahh, she’s just looking for any excuse to brag about being a mod at a bigger board than you are… The mod version of e-peen contests. 
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:76, topic:593744”]
I’m sorry if that sounds snarky, Shot From Guns, but it’s become clear to me that you’re simply looking for every opportunity to attack the mods, and you’re going to put the worst possible spin on everything that happens.
[/QUOTE]
Do me a favor and search ATMB. You will see more than one thread where I defend mod actions. I’m just going to be *more *vocal when I think someone is out of line–because I figure you guys can generally speak for yourselves when you’ve got the actual rules to back you up.
My goal here, as I’ve explained time and again, is a consistent set of rules, so that I can ensure I’m in compliance with them. If a moderator announces a decision that falls outside of the existing rules (locking a thread, giving a warning, banning someone), there are two possible outcomes:
1.) The action has set a new precedent, a new rule has been created, and everyone has to follow that rule going forward.
2.) The action was in error, the mod should retract it and apologize, and the mod should endeavor to avoid making the same error going forward.
Being part of a community where sanctions are handed out capriciously on the whims of the moderators is frustrating and aggravating. If people can’t understand what’s expected of them, or how to stay on the right side of the rules, they’re not going to want to spend time here.
Bin-go.
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:80, topic:593744”]
We all get our turn in the piñata. Last week was Dex. The week before was Czarcasm. I think Twix was the week before that.
[/QUOTE]
Uh, no, it’s the same people chronically, over and over. **Czarcasm **and **twickster **have been good posters, and I’m sure they’re good people, but they both *chronically *make terrible decisions as mods. They allow their personal feelings and preferences to get in the way of their moderating frequently enough that they’ve gotten reputations for it, and they’ve never shown any signs of realizing why enforcing their preferences rather than the rules is a bad thing for the community.
Then you have mods like Spectre, who aren’t always clear on the rules and make mistakes, but who **also **are pretty humble about the whole thing, and they’re always happy to look back over a ruling and consider that maybe they weren’t moderating in line with the existing guidelines.
I’ll stop bringing it up as soon as people stop patting me on the head and telling me that a little girl like me couldn’t *possibly *understand what it’s like.
In the interest of fairness, I’d appreciate it if you’d examine my moderating over the last six months and see if you still want to call me the second-worstt mod currently serving.
Hell, no, the second worst is [name deleted on legal advice], obviously.
With respect, the accuracy of your reckoning may be influenced somewhat by the giant hard-on you carry for Czarcasm.
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:76, topic:593744”]
This isn’t a collection of power-hungry assholes - it’s a collection of pretty good people who sometimes get fed up with the abuse.
[/QUOTE]
This is a pretty disingenuous comment. For the most part, as far as i can tell, no-one is complaining about mods not being “good people”; they are complain about mods not being good moderators.
As i’ve made clear on a number of occasions recently, i don’t draw any particular connection between someone’s abilities as a moderator and his or her general status as a “good person.” Getting even more specific, i’ve noted that i have no real personal bone to pick with Czarcasm; he seems like a pretty decent guy, and we often argue on the same side of the many political debates that go on around here. I just happen to think he’s made too many poor decisions as a moderator.
I thought long-ago moderator manhattan was a raging douchebag in many respects, but i also thought he was really good at moderating GQ.
But isn’t this something as a “chicken or egg” question?
Let’s assume, for the sake of argument, that Peter Morris does, in fact, have what you refer to as a “giant hard-on” for Czarcasm. What would have caused that in the first place?
I mean, i’m assuming it’s unlikely that they knew each other personally before they became SDMB members, so i also assume that Czarcasm didn’t abuse Peter Morris at school, or steal his lunch money, or fuck his wife. And if there was no pre-existing enmity, then maybe Peter Morris’s “hard-on” for Carcasm arises out of the very issue that we’re discussing here, i.e., Czarcasm’s performance as a mod.
You seem to be taking his criticism and asserting that it’s worthless or invalid because of his dislike for Czarcasm, but this seems to me to be something of a syllogism, and assumes the very thing it should be trying to assess, which is Czarcasm’s performance as a moderator.
Another problem here, as i noted in this thread, is that it’s easy to dismiss individual complaints against mods, because each one might not, in itself, be the end of the world. The problem is that, for some people at least, these complaints come precisely out of a situation where they feel that certain mods have developed a pattern of poor moderating over time. Each particular instance might not be a huge deal, but collectively they might demonstrate a lack of skill at this particular task.
When i mentioned in the other thread that it would be nice is moderator actions were evaluated in context, as part of a pattern of behavior (exactly the same way that member actions are evaluated when making decisions about discipline), Marley23 conceded that this was a reasonable request, saying:
The problem is that, if none of the membership ever sees those private discussions, or even hears about them and the conclusions reached, it’s understandable that some members might feel that their concerns are being ignored altogether.
When they ban someone around here, and post links to five or six warnings or mod notes as support for their decision, it shows that a pattern of behavior can lead to your downfall, even if each individual incident is not a huge deal, in and of itself. And i think that’s a good thing. But there seems to be no equivalent in evaluating complaints about mod action, or at least no equivalent that we ever see.
This is the second time in this thread I’ve been accused of being disingenuous. I am saying this, not as a mod, but as a person: quit trying to bait me. Your argument is specious and you’re intentionally trying to make this personal. Don’t. Just back the hell off.
You’re suggesting that part of being a moderator here should involve a public airing of our shortcoming by our co-workers and bosses? I wouldn’t accept that from a job that paid, let alone something I volunteer to do in my spare time.
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:88, topic:593744”]
This is the second time in this thread I’ve been accused of being disingenuous. I am saying this, not as a mod, but as a person: quit trying to bait me. Your argument is specious and you’re intentionally trying to make this personal. Don’t. Just back the hell off.
[/QUOTE]
Nope.
Don’t whine when i call your argument “disingenuous,” and then in the same breath call my argument “specious.” Why is it that, when you are argumentative and stand up for yourself, it’s reasonable, but when others are doing it, it’s “intentionally trying to make this personal.”
Get over yourself.
nm
Don’t do the job then. There are plenty of jobs in the world where, if you fuck up, the people that you work with find out about it.
I suspect that most adults living in districts with substandard volunteer fire departments express their concerns politely. Assuming they are not rude individuals.
Of course there will always be complainers who can’t be satisfied by anything.
I’m sure you’re right. Even individuals who are not generally rude, however, might find their patience tested if houses kept burning down.
nm
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:80, topic:593744”]
I don’t know, Panda. If you read this thread and the other ATMB threads about mod actions, it doesn’t appear to be just about one mod. Not even “certain mods.” We all get our turn in the piñata.
[/QUOTE]
Horseshit. I’m sure it’s easier for you to believe that posters just hate all mods, but you’re simply wrong.
I don’t ever remember a single angry complaint in the last year or so about Ellen Cherry, FluidDruid, GFactor (actually, I think he maybe had one), Xash, samclem, Rico, Gukumatz, RickJay, Cajun Man, Idle Thoughts (granted he’s still new) etc. More than 3/4s of the mods have had no “turns in the pinata”* recently
Marley and Twickster have changed their moderation style dramatically in the last year or so and—golly! the complaints about them have dropped way, way, way off.
It’s only two or three mods** who seem to generate like 85+% of all complaints. Isn’t it just baaaarely possible, that maybe, just maaaybe, that it’s not all the posters complaining just for fun, but it might be a very few incompetent mods that are the problem?
*:rolleyes:
**and Ed. Because every time Ed gets involved in the day-to-day working of the board, he makes things horribly worse
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:88, topic:593744”]
This is the second time in this thread I’ve been accused of being disingenuous. I am saying this, not as a mod, but as a person: quit trying to bait me. Your argument is specious and you’re intentionally trying to make this personal. Don’t. Just back the hell off.
[/QUOTE]
I see no need whatever for this reaction. mhendo’s comments were no different from those directed at any other post a hundred times a day on the SDMB.
If you are going to take comments on your posts personally, not only should you not be a mod, you don’t need to be on the SDMB at all.
The notion that asking you to defend your actions as a mod is “baiting” you goes a long way towards explaining a lot of the issues with moderation on the SDMB.
You’re the one intentionally making this personal, if anyone is.
It’s like a lot of this stuff about how mods are good people. I’m sure they are. So what? If you are going to interpret “you made a bad call as a mod” to mean “you are a bad person”, then you aren’t going to be able to discuss your actions rationally.
Consider how you would respond if a poster complained that other posters were intentionally baiting him by disagreeing with his posts, or making strawmen out of what he posted. Would you commiserate with him that this was all a series of personal attacks, and that he had every right in the world to go un-challenged? I would rather suspect it would more along the lines of “if ten people tell you you’re drunk, go and lie down”. Or else suck-it-up, get-down-off-the-cross, it’s-only-a-message-board.
Regards,
Shodan
This suggestion could just as well be offered to poster and mod alike.
Idle Thoughts has dreadful taste in food!
I’m not playing your game, mhendo. I’m out of this thread.
Dear Shodan -
Calling my argument “disingenuous” is personal and insulting. That would be fine - mild, even - in the Pit, but I came into ATMB to try and calm things down. I am not “defending my actions.” This isn’t about me. I just happened to be the latest mod that a few people decided to poke recreationally to get a reaction.
You and others have said that threads like this have a purpose: to change a moderator decision. That happened long ago. The cop wrote a ticket; you (a generic “you,” not you personally) challenged the ticket; he rescinded it; and now you’re demanding that he publicly apologize, make you a sandwich, and paint a scarlet “B” on his chest.
What you’ve accomplished is to make mods like me not even want to read ATMB. I have better things to do with my time. I’m out.