I’m another atheist, and I think the friend was being a prick. She probably shouldn’t have written “God Bless You”, but to make even a little deal over it is stupid.
Do you think people who say “God bless you” when you sneeze are doing so out of religion? I think for many people the phrase doesn’t carry any religious conotations. Personally, I would find it somewhat odd, but without knowing this particular waitress I would be hesitant to say that it was more than just a pleasantry.
It seems that one of the main problems that people have with fundamentalisn is that there is so much intolerance that goes with it. You friend was intolerant of the waitress’ religion and stooped to her level. Actually, he didn’t know here, so he stooped to the level that he imagined that she was at. I don’t see how any good could come from such actions.
(If it matters, my religious beliefs fall somewhere between agnosticism and a very liberal Protestantism. I might feel at home with the Unitarians but I’ve never been to a Unitarian church.)
Did I really offend you? That’s really not a surprise, if I’d said “How ya doin” or “Nice weather we’re having today”, based upon your track record, you’d be offended.
And that’s exactly the point.
You overreact to everything. If you get pissed off when somebody (presuming someone who doesn’t know your orientation) innocently wishes that you’ll “find a nice girl”, focusing on making that offensive because it doesn’t recognize your homosexuality (which the person didn’t even know) rather than taking it in the spirit it was offered, than you have anger issues. If you get offended when someone who does know your orientation (me) teases you with the same statement, than you have really, really big anger issues.
You know what? That’s fine. You can be as angry and bitter as you want. But by flashing into a white hot rage over every imagined slight or perceived insult, you do the cause of gay rights a grave disservice. I am as pro gay rights as they come, and I think you’re an embarrassment. I have talked about you to other dopers who happen to be gay, and they think you are an embarrassment. Yelling and screaming “HOMOPHOBE!” at anyone who happens to question some aspect of being gay turns people who could, should, might or would be inclined to be our allies in these discussions into opponents, simply because they asked a question and your reaction was to shit on them, and frankly I am sick of it. You badly need some perspective, and to reconsider just exactly what you are accomplishing. Yes, we get it. You are angry about the way you have been and continue to be treated by some people because of your orientation. I understand, it’s infuriating, I’m angry too. Popping off like the village idiot ALL THE FUCKING TIME, however, is simply making the situation worse as you drive away people who would be willing to listen to reasonable discussions and base their final opinion upon facts. When slack jawed, spittle flying, screaming hate is the face of the gay community that they see, however, they are far more likely to turn and walk away, asking themselves why they even bothered.
You are wrong.
You are the one coming off as the screaming village idiot.
None of the things you have attributed to me have I said in this thread. I haven’t said anything like what you’ve stated for a very long time.
Either you cannot let go of a past long gone, or anyone who dares protest against something they feel is wrong deserves to be decried by you in the same terms and tone that you so inaccurately percieve them to be using.
If you want to persist in slurring me, take it to the Pit.
I guess what bugs me is that there is currently a movement to “put a little more God in the world”.
Sometimes it is annoying, like writing “God bless you” on bills, or ordering checks with bible quotes, or wearing “Pray Hard” tee shirts, or sticking an “in case of rapture, vehicle will be unoccupied” sticker on your car. Mostly this makes me think “great, I’m glad you found something that makes you happy. I wish you’d find a way to express it that isn’t so cheesy and condescending”.
Sometimes it is offensive, like GWB constantly invoking his God in just about every single one of his speeches. This makes me feel unwelcome in my own country. I do not need to be made to feel like less of a citizen because I do not believe that Jesus died on a cross for my sins.
Sometimes, it is truely scary, like attempts to bring religion in to schools, legislate religious morality and wage wars with religious overtones. This freaks me the fuck out.
And frankly the whole God thing is starting to rub me the wrong way. Religion is about you and your God, not about the guy you served ham’n’eggs to this morning. I’m sick of being told how great JC is. I’m tired of it being assumed that I worship the God of Abraham. I just don’t want to hear about it, especially when I just finished breakfast. Religion is not some happy neutral subject that we all (except for a frew freaks) agree on. It’s a sensitive subject best discussed among close friends and family, not randomly thrust on strangers. I probably wouldn’t fly off the handle, but if I had just heard super Christian GWB talk about how a bunch of likely Hindus and Jews in the space shuttle explosion are “home now” (Home where? In the bowels of Hell?) and had to explain to my kid that “Thou shall worship no gods before me” isn’t relevent to fourth grade math, it might be the thing that pushes me over the edge.
even sven: I agree with your post 100%. I too feel like I’m more unwelcome now that being Christian is the new trend of the day.
I think the religious have a hard time connecting with an athiest. When I refused to say the pledge in high school I was told over and over “the term under god can be any god” in which my reply was “but I don’t have a god”. It is the same argument for “In God we trust”.
The last company I worked at I had a fundie Christian boss. He had a habit of only promoting those that were worth promoting. In other words, Christians. He and his pack could talk Jesus all day but the few there who were athiests were asked to change the subject when talk of other religions or “there is no god” talk started. Of course, none of this could be proved so no complaints to higher ups could be made. Even if we did complain to the district manager it would go on deaf ears because she was Christian as well. At the end of the day all the non-Christians we forced to transfer from that store or just quit.
The funny thing about that job, I transfered to that store from a different store because my first store was the same way and I wanted to get away from it.
I’m all for letting people believe in whatever they want, but I’m starting to see a real gang mentality start in the Christian movement. Sadly, that is starting to turn me off on Christians as a whole. If I look in the phone book and see two adverts for some service I need to call, I will almost always call the one without the fishy logo. Mostly because I don’t want to be assulted with any pro-god campain.
And, quite frankly, I getting really tired of being told I’m going to burn in hell forever if I don’t convert right now. I don’t walk up to random Christians and tell them they’re going to be ass-raped in jail if they break the law.
I wonder what would happen if this waitress started writing “live free without god”?
I’m an atheist, and I have to say, finding that on my check would certainly make me roll my eyes, and might make me change from a 20-25% tip, like I usually give, to 15%. But giving no tip, when the service was fine, seems way overboard. If it meant that much to him, he could have told her what the problem was. Instead, it sounds like he was having a little shit-fit, but was too cowardly to have a confrontation, so he passively-aggressively punished her.
I do think it’s annoying that so many people just assume I’m a Christian, or some sort of theist. It’s arrogant and presumptuous, even if it is careless. Of course, now that I think about it, the best way to accomplish my goal of normalizing atheists and making people realize we’re nice too, would be to leave a big ol’ tip, with a note that says, “BTW, I’m an atheist - have a nice day!”
Had it happen. I tipped normally and wrote “May you be the first to die.”
What Aesiron said. I see even sven’s point about the organized move to shove Jesus into every nook and cranny the fundies can find, but this doesn’t connect to that, in my view.
You can get the coins too if you carry around an arc-welder. 
And Little Mary Sunshine skips along spreading light and joy in her wake.
Bolding mine.
And on the flip side, it’s people like the waitress who give the rest of us regular Christians a poor reputation. Most of us would never dream of writing something like that on a restaurant check. I wouldn’t, at least.
Sure, I believe in God and go to church regularly, but I don’t go around cramming my beliefs down anyone’s throat. It would have made me roll my eyes, too, but it wouldn’t have stopped me from leaving a tip. That’s just plain rude.
Your friend was just an asshole.
No offense at all, it’s the same sentiment. Why get stupid because someone wishes good things for you?
That’s really insightful. I’ve been as hostile to religion as the OP’s friend was before, and it was usually after I heard some insane comment from Jerry Falwell or something, or reading some hate-filled diatribe laced with biblical verses online. Later, when you hear someone casually invoke God in your vocabulary like the waitress did, you assume that they also believe fags should burn in hell etc.
Good grief. That is just wrong and extremely low class.
Maybe you’re the friend the OP is referring to.
Anyhow, OP:
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Yes, your friend is a jerk.
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If it were me, the tip would be higher than normal simply because I leave a bigger tip if they leave me a nice note. Have a nice day, buckle your seatbelt, don’t eat yellow snow: whatever. I like notes on the check, makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.
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Hi, Opal.
Good Lord! (Oh, I hope that didn’t offend your friend. :rolleyes: ) I don’t even reduce the tip when the server is rude to me. I figure rude people have to eat too. But to reduce it because they’re being nice to you?! Ridiculous and inexcusable. It particularly makes me mad because I have a lot of atheist friends who are wonderful people for whom I have the deepest respect, and your friend is giving them a bad name with this kind of behavior.
It’s not as if saying “God bless you” is equivalent to telling your friend they should believe in God or that they’re a bad person for not believing in God. It’s just a way of wishing them well. If your friend must take it literally, can’t he understand it to mean, “As someone who believes in God, I hope he blesses you”, not some sort of attack on his beliefs. Your friend is the one being intolerant. He might as well have based his tip on the person’s beliefs, since evidentally he’s basing it on their choice to express those beliefs in even the most innocuous way.
The more I re-read this, the madder I get. Your friend should be ashamed.
For real!
We live in a world full of hate and mean people, etc. Now we’ve gotta be mad if someone offers us goodwill in the name of whatever god they happen to believe in?
Are we going to have to put disclaimers on things now?
“God bless you! Or not. God bless you if you’re a Christian, “God” meaning Jesus the Son, who of course is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit. If you’re Jewish, we meant God, as there is only one God and not in trinitarian form. If you’re Muslim please understand that we think Allah is just great and we read the Koran daily. If you’re agnostic be blessed in the name of whatever diety you suspect MIGHT exist. If you’re atheist, forget the blessing and just have a nice day, unless you WANT God to bless you just in case He’s out there, in which case you’re not really an atheist but we won’t tell if you won’t. The customer will note that this blessing is nonreturnable and no exchanges or substitutions will be made on this visit or any future visits. This blessing is not intended to persuade, provoke or offend the customer into converting to a religion, or switching from their current faith of choice.”
Here’s the thing, though: It was my choice to give an extra big tip. Which is all I did. At IHOP, you pay at the cash register, not at the table. So, we took our checks up to the cash register, he paid his, then I paid mine. I gave double the tip that I had originally intended to give, but I didn’t say why I did so. All the cashier would have known was that my friend paid no tip and I paid a very large one. And the waitress probably wouldn’t even known that much, so it’s not like there was any “protest” to cancel. It’s not like I went up to the cashier or the waitress and said, “My friend isn’t going to leave a tip because he’s pissed at the ‘God bless you’ on the checks, but don’t worry, I’m going to make up for it.” On the other hand, had I not tipped her extra, she might have known that we only tipped her half what she should have been tipped. And she still wouldn’t have known why. Which is why I included the paragraph about how I think we should always tip. I kind of wish now that I hadn’t included it because it’s really beside the point as far as my OP is concerned. On the other message board where I posted about this, the thread turned into a discussion about the ethics of tipping because of that paragraph and I hope that doesn’t happen here.
Also, like pravnik said, it’s poor manners to do what my friend did when you’re dining with someone else. He says he was embarrassed, but it would have been just as embarrassing for me if he hadn’t paid his tip. For reasons mentioned above, the waitress might have thought I was the cheapskate.
But what has he done to deserve your thanks? He didn’t tell the waitress why he was withholding a tip, so she’s probably writing “God bless you” on checks to this day (if she’s still serving, that is). And even if he’d told her why he was upset, wouldn’t it have been better to tell her and tip her? I think it would make more of an impression that way, to show her some kindness along with the reprimand. More flies with honey and all that…
Can I use this for my sig?
heh heh. Sure.