You often hear how military families are barely scraping by. Why is this so?

Also remember a lot of young men (and women) join the military simply because they have no other options. They aren’t gonna get anything more than a minimum (or slightly more than minimum) wage job. The armed forces offers them opportunities but you have to be careful.

If you don’t use those opportunities afforded by the armed forces, soon your married with kids and life is happening, while those chances go by (like most people in life find out).

So if you’re starting out without much, it’s harder to climb out. Most people really don’t realize how much they are helped out by their parents. I always hear people say “I’m self made,” but I have never once, heard that by anyone who I couldn’t tear down in five minutes by pointing out how much they mooched off their parents to get where they are. Think about it and you’ll see it’s true.

So when you start life with very little, if you don’t use your opportunities very carefully and have no saftey nets you can quickly find yourself in trouble

True story and the reason for my statement:

At one time I had a Soldier in my Unit who when first arrived, before his family arrived, was the model Soldier in terms of looks and attitude. His uniform was crisp and his boots you could shave in front of. After his family arrived, his boots were always dirty and he never looked well rested. He had a wife and a baby, so his squad leader thought that the baby and making up for missed time with his wife was causing the slip in his appearance. A couple words were said to him, but this was a good young Troop and the Squad leader wanted to take care of him. In ranks inspections every Monday and this PVT is still not making the grade. I saw him several times shining his boots in his car right before he would arrive to work. Trying to get his boots shined enough so he could report in to work made him late on occasion. So now this young man has two issues adding up: Appearance standards and tardiness. It was getting to the point where he was about to be dealt with through UCMJ when the 1SG realized that a home inspection walk through had not been done. When the 1SG, the Commander and the squad leader came back from the home inspection, that young troop was moving into on Post housing and his problems were solved.

This young Soldier had been renting a condemned mobile home with holes big enough in the floor to allow dust and dirt to cover the house each night.

So there is a limit as to how low you can go and still maintain standards. I think someone said something about squalor upthread, but I love sharing this story.

SSG Schwartz

Yes, very good story.

Time Stranger: We have that type of training a lot right now. We have more generalized financial training and before the Winter Holidays even more training. As well as identity theft training, spousal abuse training, the list goes on.

But, as they say: you can bring a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.

Overall though, looking back at myself from before I joined the Navy (I joined late) the financial mistakes are not that much different. Severity might be higher. When I was at college we had a credit card company just giving away credit cards to just about any student. This got a lot of students in trouble as we made very very little. Now, multiply that by someone who is young with a full-time job and it sounds about right. It’s just that its expected for young people to make mistakes elsewhere. As we all have.

You sign waivers when you join-up. And, if you have a clearance they pull your credit from time-to-time. A credit check does not tell you everything buts its a good barometer.

OT: How is that even possible off-base? Maybe a local instruction?

Active duty at Capt here. Former af E1.

First I want to address SSgt Schwartz first post regarding all of the “free stuff” we get for being in the mil. I absolutely HATE when people claim we get “free” housing and “free” healthcare. We don’t. It’s not free. It is simpley part of our compensation package. Nothing more. That’s like saying that people who recieve stock options are recieving them for free. The only reason that BAH is even seperate and not standard for everyone is that we are forced to move every few years and finding a house or apt in DC costs a hell of a lot more than Dayton Ohio so that needs to be adjusted. Healthcare is the same thing. It’s part of our compensation package. It’s not free. We put in our hours for those benefits just like civilians do. I get paid a HELL of a lot less than a civilian does for doing my exac same job so the stuff we do have is NOT free. As far as the tax break goes that is a perk for sure.

Also, as someone who was an E1 and scraped up through to O3 I can say we are definitly NOT underpaid. I live comfortably but not excessively so. The people who always seem so poor are the guys whose wives don’t work and stay home to crank out babies year after year. This is really bad at low ranks. They have no clue. There is almost a sense of entitlement there that she has a right to stay home and have 4 kids and still have 2 cars. It’s a weird culture on base. The women are fucking crazy about babies. Anyway, don’t tell me my house is “free” and that the gov is paying for it because they aren’t. I work my ass off for it.
Also, I typed this on my iPod so forgive any weird formatting or spelling issues.

I definitely agree with Cubsfan on the “free” stuff. I think this “free” thing comes from the recruiters that tell everyone that joins up that is free so that we think we’re getting some special deal. And, this is really bad as I have had some people -civilians- get angry at me about it. I even have to go so far as to explain to senior enlisted that it is not free and it’s merely part of our compensation and then go into great length on translating what we get into “civilian speak”. Just so, as Cubsfan had pointed out, that when they go and tell “others” that its in a in a way that they understand.

So, which is it? As I’ve said other times, I left the military not because I didn’t love what I did and the people, but because I was, as you say, “paid a HELL of a lot less than a civilian does for doing my exact same job,” which to me is an indication that I was most definitely underpaid. And as I’ve said, including substandard benefits when evaluated monetarily. The Army sure as heck opened the door for me, though, and I’m not at all bitter, and I do rather miss the experience. I’m only indicating that for me, the money was the issue, pure and simple.

This is hardly confined to the military. Lots of civilians have been living beyond their means in the last few years, too. You could probably find a fair number of civilians who don’t make much money but drive brand new cars and live in fancy condos or houses, or at least you could have found plenty of them two years ago.

When my husband was serving, the doctors were very reluctant to help with birth control issues. My husband had only two or three stripes, yet I was asked if I wanted to go off the Pill every time I went in, didn’t I want to start a family? After I got pregnant on the Pill and miscarried, all of the OB/GYNs at the base hospital refused to renew my prescription. So, we spent the money on contraceptive foam and condoms, over the counter, which put a crimp in our budget. When I got pregnant AGAIN, I could not get an abortion from anyone at the base hospital, and since we were in Spain, going to a civilian doctor was right out. After I had my daughter, I had an IUD implanted after a lot of arguments with the docs. And yeah, guess what? I got preggo again. Miscarried again, too. This time, I spent months and months insisting that I wasn’t gonna have sex ever again until I had my tubes tied. THAT was an interesting time.

I don’t know if I just had a really, really bad run of luck with the doctors I saw or what, but they all seemed to think that I should start churning out rug rats, even if I said that I’d never wanted kids. I don’t know if the doctors are the same way now. But I never wanted to stay home and crank out kids. I was unable to find a job in Spain, and after I had my daughter, I was unable to find a job that would have paid enough to keep her in day care while I worked. Nobody wanted to hire a woman who would be transferred in a year or so.

Health care is “free” in the sense that there are few, if any, out-of-pocket expenses for Tricare Prime, and there are no premiums deducted, as there are with most civilian health insurance. This is a boon to families because it means that health problems can be addressed before they get bad; care for serious, expensive problems won’t bankrupt the family; and preventive care is accessible.

It’s not a perfect system by any means; the quality of care varies considerably, and if you’re stationed away from a military treatment facility, it can be hard to find a provider that accepts Tricare. But given the cost of health care relative to the cash income of someone in the military, it’s a pretty good deal.

Lynn, if you were the active-duty person, you’d have had birth control practically shoved down your throat. At least that was my experience. Also, you can thank the Hyde Amendment for the prohibition on abortion. Federal money cannot be spent to provide abortion services to military or their families. It’s stupid and I’d love to see it overturned, but it’s the law of the land.

Well, sure. A pregnant soldier (or whatever) is even more restricted as to what she can do. I’ll bet that she doesn’t have to go on alert, either. The military doesn’t give active-duty women BC out of the goodness of its heart, it does so because it wants those women to serve without having to take pregnancies into account. While I can see the point, I think that making sure that military spouses have easy access to BC as well, as it would save a lot of money.

I know it was not meant as such, but it seems like your post is a back-handed stab at Recruiters. If you and Cubsfan feel that you must earn your medical benefits, tell me how many hours of overtime you had to work in order to have an X-Ray done? Did you have to come in on Saturday so your wife could have her pelvic exam done? Or how about this, what happened when one of your Airmen gambled away his rent money for his room in the barracks?

To me, things that are earned, can be taken away. Things that are provided free cannot. My medical care cannot be taken from me, my BAH cannot be taken from me, my retirement cannot be taken from me, and I don’t know why you would feel otherwise.

SSG Schwartz

Keep in mind, too, that what you see on the news is always the worst cases. Active duty pay in the lower ranks is not great, but after E-5 or so (and adding in the allowances) it isn’t bad, either. Below E-5, it’s a lot rougher (even with allowances) but still doable, with sacrifices. My husband was an E-6 when we married. I never worked outside the home and we got along fine – admittedly, my husband advanced in rank quite quickly after we were married, though. He made E-7 after 3 years or so and was commissioned an officer a year after that.

Still, I’ve known lots of guys E-5 and above who were raising families and most – really the vast majority – of them got along fine.

It’s harder without the allowances. My son is an E-4, not married, and he brings home about $1800 a month. He can’t get BAH because they don’t give it to single guys on his base below E-5. He recently moved into his own place (nice rented house with a roomate) and picked up a second job as a bouncer in a bar to pay his share of the rent. If he makes E-5 later this time (he should find out soon, I think) he’ll get a nice raise & be able to apply for the housing allowance and be able to quit the second job if he wants to.

I do agree, though, that the military should do a better job of educated its troops about money management. Of course, this is equally true of the private sector. My daughter is in college right now and, according to her, your average college student is no better of a money manager than your average young enlisted person. And (her college, at least) doesn’t have any better system in place than the military does to educate its students about money mangement.

One last thing – military medicine rules. The only time we were ever out of pocket was when my daughter was born (3 months early) while we were on leave in a non-military area. The hospital where she was born and spent her first 3 months was not a Tricare (then Champus) provider. Our share of the bill for her hospital stay should have been $75,000 – a lot of money back in 1987. Tricare/ Champus worked with the hospital to reduce what we had to pay. We ended up paying about $10,000. I can’t imagine any private medical insurance would have done better than that, given that her total hospital costs were in the hundreds of thousands.

Other than that, both my kids were raised on military medical care, which has always been excellent. My daughter, in particular, being disabled (with CP) has had an unusual amount of medical intervention, and it has always been superlative. Next year she will age out of Tricare and she’s already a little nervous about changing health care. I can’t imagine that she would have had any better care anywhere, or under any other system, at any price.

That’s all and good from the perspective of a family member. From the perspective of an actual service member, the service kind of stinks (or did at the time).

Need something done? You can’t make an appointment like a normal person; you have to take time off of work and report to “sick call” at a specific hour of the day. In the real world, I call and make an appointment at a time convenient to me.

Feeling truly sick? Again, “sick call” at a specific time. Unfortunately there were a lot of lazy people and scammers, which made the triage process exceedingly long and boring. In the real world, I make an appointment and show up at a designated time. This isn’t the same as an emergency room, needed for emergent care; I’m referring to a normal sickness.

Need to fill a script? Go on sick call at the designated time. Wait through the triage process. Turn in your script. Return later in the day, or maybe the next day. Civilian world? “Do you want this now or would you like to pick it up? Now? Okay, be about 5 minutes.”

If anyone wonders why I don’t want the government to run health care, then this is the number one reason. The funny thing is, the dependents were always treated with respect compared to us, and so that treatment might compel them to want a government system!

To be honest, the care I received was always excellent. I have no complaints about any treatment or care that I ever received. Hell, I’m not even complaining about the service aspects; just comparing it to civilian life. And if you were sick enough, you could bypass the triage process. Without really meaning to, I discovered that vomiting violently in the restroom would move you straight to the front of the line. :wink:

In my experience, it depends on how the military medical facility is set up. Many Navy medical clinics have been moving toward “family practice” clinics, even for servicemembers. (To a certain extent, it also depended on the servicemembers’ rank.)

As an officer, when I got sick, I called in to my boss at work and made an appointment at the clinic. If I got a prescription, I picked it up at the pharmacy. Senior enlisted staff (as opposed to students) usually bypassed sick call as well.

However, if one of my enlisted students got sick, they had to report to sick call, just like I had done when I was going through my training pipeline years before.

Seriously?

The offer is made freely by Disney, who may get to claim it on taxes somehow. Disney will make their money on the purchases made within the park. (Food, souvenirs.)

Actually my Xrays, my wifes pelvic exam and my airman’s rent are part of my annual compensation package so I don’t need to work overtime to pay for them. You see that’s how it works. I don’t have to work overtime to pay for those things and the USAF doesn’t have to pay me overtime when I’m working 60+hr work weeks on their behalf. They also don’t have to pay me extra when I get paged at 2AM to pick up one of my airman from jail.

You have a warped idea of what qualifies as “earning something”. If your medical care, housing and retirement are “free” then you should have no problem collecting them after you separate right? Free means that you are receiving something without giving something in return. I don’t know what kind of hours you work or what’s expected of you by your chain of command but if you are putting in your 40 hours/wk for Uncle Sam then you are by no means getting anything for free.

FYI I didn’t say anything about recruiters.

The Air Force medical was fabulous when I was a kid. When I was nine I had major spinal surgery that we think would have cost at least $50,000 – in 1986. Nowadays? I don’t even want to think about it. I think afterwards we ended up owing something in the neighborhood of $100, probably for incidentals of some sorts.

Cubsfan,
I never suggested you did say anything about Recruiters, that was why I quoted electronbee. Your idea of a compensation package notwithstanding, I was trying to demonstrate that my pay and compensation is not affected at all if I use the MTF or not. I get just as much pay if I live in the barracks or off post. Granted, I get BAH if I live off post, but either way, I get housing paid for.

By your logic, the annual meal at Golden Corral and the current Disney and Six Flags promotions are part of the Service Member’s compensation plan. By your argument, you must do something to earn the compensation, that is, serve in the military. Other than Golden Corral, you can’t use the benefit when you get out. Others I forgot to include links to are the 10% I get off on my Sprint Wireless bill, the $1 buffet I get at my local CiCi’s, the free coffee at Starbucks, etc. For all these benefits in my compensation plan, I must be a member of the Military.

SSG Schwartz