What would happen is you wouldn’t have bothered to post about it.
really? My post asked YOU if you would be offended if people violated a gag order here in the US (regardless of the underlying situtation).
and I reject your contention that such a stance is by itself unsympathetic to the parents/girl, whoever. Generally, gag orders are issued to insure that the trial will be able to be conducted in a fair manner. Massive negative Pre-trial publicity can be used (and has been used successfully) as a means of overturning a verdict. (The Sam Shepard case for example).
So, you’ll need to support your accusation that my stance, my post showed any amount of lack of sympathy for anyone involved in such a case (understanding that the facts seem to be otherwise in this one).
and, I’m still expecting a direct appology for insinuating that I’m a bigot/racist.
Really? I’m expecting another “clarification”.
I feel very sorry for the girl and her family and any one who is a victim of a racial attack. anyone who knows me knows how I feel about Racism and Fascism and anti-semitism. I am an activist against racial attacks and racist politicians, and xenophobic
anyone who ever reads anything I post to this board will know my feelings on Anti-semitism and racism. How dare you insinuate I am anything else.
Fuck you, you narrowminded cunt.
Oh for Christ’s sake. Or Jehovah’s sake, or Allah’s sake, whatever. What, was your thread just intended to be some anti semitism sob fest?
How fucking stupid and narrow minded are you?
You post a thread about a specific case, then you whinge and fling accusations around because people aren’t having a good old all-french-are-nazis bashing time.
If you wanted that, why not honestly title your OP: “Anti semitism is a horrific problem in France” or some such.
You have posted not one iota of evidence that the principal was “unsympathetic” or that he, or the courts, were motivated by anti-semitism.
A tragic case, made even more tragic by your fucking hijacking of it for your own, sick, paranoid motives.
So does the Republique have a “loser pays” tort system, and is that what’s happened here?
If it’s the case, one would think that december, as an arch-conservative, would be cheering the outcome.
…if he wasn’t such a hypocritical bullshitter, that is…
From the article :
Basically, the poor girl was beat up, the mom sued the principal and vice-principal of the school for “Non assistance to person in danger” and filing a “unusefull” suit (my words). The judge said it was useless to sue the principal and fined the parents for “excessive use of the law” if you want! They say it has nothing to do with the beating and the fact she was jewish.
Hard to translate! I hope you understand me!
IIAL, but by no means expert in law other than the US, and my jurisdiction specifically. In many civil law countries, which includes most of continental Europe, there is a ‘pay to play’ systems for filing lawsuits. In short, if you sue somebody, and they successfully defend it, you must pay their legal costs. This is in opposition to US law (not sure about Louisiana) and Canadian/UK law, where the victor in a lawsuit does not have the right to collect attorney fees.
The Google translation is almost worse than useless.
IIAL, but by no means expert in law other than the US, and my jurisdiction specifically. In many civil law countries, which includes most of continental Europe, there is a ‘pay to play’ systems for filing lawsuits. In short, if you sue somebody, and they successfully defend it, you must pay their legal costs. This is in opposition to US law (not sure about Louisiana) and Canadian/UK law, where the victor in a lawsuit does not have the right to collect attorney fees.
The Google translation is almost worse than useless.
Why are you still talking about a gag order? It was your mistake to assume that a gag order was in place.
The Euro 4000 fine was damages in addition to court costs. The amount was selected by the judge. Apparently, this is unusual. The article called it an “Amazing judgment!” and also used the words “astounding” and “astonishment.” (Same response to Abe Babe)
The OP has a cite quoting the French minister of education Luc Fery about problems of anti-semitism in France. The article mentions a similar comment by Minister of Education Lang. (Maybe Fery was a past minister of education.) So, the OP already showed evidence that French schools have a problem with anti-semitism.
To me, the tone of the article was quite critical of the judge’s decision. I can’t tell for sure, but my impression is that the parents alleged that the attack was motivated by anti-semitism, not that the Principal was an anti-semite. In effect, the parents seem to have been punished for bringing to light the anti-semitic aspect of this attack.
What’s your point december? The French should be added to the axis of evil? De Gaulle was in cahoots with Hitler? Hussein is hiding chemical warheads in Marseilles?
The world is full of assholes, my friend. There may be one on your mirror.
OK, december, let me get this straight. Your French is minimal, by your own admission, and you are browsing Proche-orient.info, (Middle East Info) which AFAIK isn’t even a mainstream French-language publication? Somehow I doubt this story first came to your attention through the linked article. The whole OP stinks to high heaven. C’mon, ‘fess up; you found the link in some Jewish spin-type publication, didn’t you?
If I sat down with a good French dictionary for an hour or two, I might be able to offer comment on what the real legal reasoning behind the conviction was. I’m homing some native French speaker will stop by and do so, preferably one with at least a passing knowledge of the French legal system, and can offer some more informed comment on the reasoning behind the fine. I suspect the real story has to do with this quote, which is even highlighted in red on the linked article:
“Le tribunal non plus n’a pas apprécié la médiatisation. Et il le fait savoir. Un passage du jugement précise que « rien n’a été fait pour respecter la présomption d’innocence, le Tribunal constatant au surplus que cette affaire a fait l’objet d’une très importante mobilisation de la presse (vingt journalistes présents…au moins au début des débats) qui n’est certainement pas du fait du tribunal ou de celui des prévenues ». “
My legal French ain’t the greatest, but it looks to me like the court was upset that the parents had decided to bypass the whole issue of guilt, as determined in a court of law, and try the case in the media:
“The Court did not appreciate the [médiatisation]. And made it known. One passage of the judgement specifies that ‘nothing has been done to respect the presumption of innocence, the Court [constatant au surplus] that this matter had been made the object of a large mobilization of the press (twenty journalists present…at least at the beginning of deliberations) which was certainly not the doing of the Court or that of the [prévenues].”
My admittedly brief reading of the linked article hasn’t so far revealed whether the attackers were convicted of anything. I strongly suspect we aren’t getting the whole story here. If anyone cares to correct or complete the translation, please feel free.
Did I miss something or was it decided by someone (I know not whom) that this attack should be characterised as ‘anti-Semitic’.
Best I can tell, the girl was one of three attacked as part of a running “feud” between school girls. Her school is Jewish, the other isn’t – nothing I’ve read suggests racism is a motive. The Camus school says its just a “dust-up” between rival schools … we used to have great punch-ups with the boys at school on the other side of town …
But I find I come back to the fact that it was a Jewish school. In France. That seems pretty tolerant for a secular society, non ?
Well, an argument might be made that you are slightly sexist…
Trinopus
Eva, as the OP implied, the link came from AndrewSullivan.com. It was also picked up by lucianne.com. Comments from the conservative posters to that message board showed more concern about anti-Semitism than the comments here.
BTW my grandmother was a great fan of TV host Ed Sullivan. She supposedly thought his name was Ed Solomon. So, maybe Andrew Sullivan is a Jewish site. 
I second the motion.
London_Calling, I gather you followed the link to the earlier article, which is well worth reading. The girl’s father referred to the attackers as “Arabs.” The article says, “In fact, the teenagers authors of the aggression were young people of extraction maghrébine and African.” Does anyone know how to translate “maghrébine”?
If the attackers were Arabs, then ISTM there’s an obvious presumption that it was motivated by anti-semitism. France is experiencing a large number of anti-semitic acts by Arabs. I could easily find cites, if needed. Note that for these people anti-Israel = Anti-semitic.
Sorry, I’m not a reader of Andrew Sullivan, so no, it never crossed my mind that the thing was from his Web site.
Maghrebine would mean “from the Maghreb,” or Muslim North Africa (very generally; I’m no expert here). Someone will have to elaborate for me on what geographical regions are currently considered to be part of the Maghreb.
Needless to say, I object strongly to your comments about “obvious presumptions” and “for these people,” whoever you mean to include in that group. I’m white, so if a nonwhite person beats me up, does that automatically mean it’s racial? If you’re trying to classify this as a hate crime, I think “innocent until proven guilty” would be a reasonable starting point, don’t you?
“Maghrébine” refers to people in or from the Maghreb, the area of North Africa that comprises Morocco, Algerian, and Tunisia, all of whom were colonized by France and still have some Francophonic ties. Most of the Muslim immigrants to France come from the Maghreb.
Due to overwhelming numbers of requests (2) and my desire not to do any sort of homework, I’ve decided to translate the article. While it might not be the most perfect translation ever, I feel that it will be more than sufficient to express the ideas in the article. I’ll post it as soon as I finish.
Maghreb = Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia in a geographic sense ( effectively those countries arrayed in the shadow the Atlas Mountains ). This is the primary definition.
It also sometimes includes Libya and Mauritania in a cultural sense - Based on all five nations having some ( not necessarily large ) Berber elements.
Likely in this case the first definition is the one being used.
My high school French not being adequate to the task of completely deciphering the article without ambiguity, I will withhold any comments on the OP per se.
- Tamerlane
You should know me by now, december, I do like a little context. Just crazy that way …
I see “obvious”, but how do we know it’s not black vs. white or suburb vs. suburb school rivalry or you-stole-my-boyfriend-bitch stuff or give-me-that-expensive cell/mobile phone-you white whore or something we’re not even aware of ?
How old are these kids ?
Why is it “anti-Semitism“, december, apart from it being the characterisation selected by your new blogger-hero of the month, Andrew Sullivan ?
On that, I think I’ll leave you capable people to clear up the mess of another tin-foil December OP.