Filthy Arabs assault wealthy Jews

A story is making the headlines over here. In a suburbian train heading for Paris, a woman who had a toddler with her was assaulted by six arab guys, armed with knives. She had to surrender her wallet, credit card, etc…

One of the assaulters looked at her ID and noticed she was living in 16th district of Paris. From this, he deduced she was Jewish. Note that there aren’t any more Jews in the 16th district than in other parts of Paris (there’s a couple neighborhoods in Paris with a larger Jewish population, but they aren’t anywhere close to this district). But this district is the most upscale Paris district. Hence the reasonning : She’s from the 16th district ergo she’s filthy rich ergo she’s Jewish (not that I actually believe they would have used a word like “ergo”…probably more like 16th grmmpff money grmppff Jewish). Actually, she wasn’t, by the way.
So, the assaulters decided that she deserved some punishment. She was insulted, they cut her hair, lacerated her clothes, and drawed swastikas on her belly. The poor woman was saved by the train stoping at the next station, at which point the assaulters fled. Not without previously kicking over the baby carriage, with the baby in it, presumably to punish the toddler for his future crimes.

Of course, there were people in the carriage, and nobody did anything.
And no, it’s not what my rant is about (though feel free to discuss it too)

Tonight, I decided to visit a chatroom, something I had not done in a long time. Since it was very late in France, I picked a french-speaking chat-room on an international site, where I would likely find more people. Some chatters were discussing the assault I described above. So far, so good. Then one of these people stated that arabs are commiting all sorts of crimes and should be sent back to their countries. Big mistake : I began to argue that there wasn’t any difference between this kind of comments and the ideas people like the assaulters probably have in mind regarding Jewish people. From then on, I was showered under prejudiced statements.
Because, you know, there are a lot of differences. Arab people, besides being criminals, also refuse to integrate french society, conspiciously display their unfrench customs, have two wiwes and 17 children (that the exact number they mentionned), etc…contrarily to the Jews who are discret (which presumably means that if they weren’t…). Note that I say “french” but actually, it’s the same in Canada. Or at least in Quebec. They also want to conquer the world and impose their religion onto everybody. Of course, it’s a brief sum up, and there’s much more to it.
One of these persons was much more erudite than the others. She obviously knew there were christian arabs, since she always refered to the “muslim arabs”. She knew that Mohammed was a pedophile. She also knew that arabs had invaded Spain, where they masssacred all the christians. Actually, they massacred all the christians everywhere : in Sudan, in India (not sure when), etc… These are quite uncommon comments in France, contrarily to arabs being criminals and the like. If they sound familiar to you, it’s because this girl is american (and yes, I’ve a point in mentionning this).
They also hate the Jews. You know why? I think you can guess, but I’m still going to tell you. That’s because they’re envious. And they’re envious because contrarily to the backward Arabs, the Jews know very well how to reach influential positions and they make a lot of money :rolleyes: (remember, they live in the 16th district and all that…).
I forgot to mention : meanwhile, an Algerian has joined the chatroom, and was calling them on their racism, asking them why the Arabs were always unjustly attacked in this way…because , you know, actually, it’s all the fault of the Jews. :rolleyes:
I wasn’t paying much attention, though, since I was arguing with the american girl. Not only she was cultured, but also she wasn’t prejudiced. She was only objective. She could easily prove it. For instance she dared me to mention even one “muslim arab” country which was affluent, stable, democratic and free. Remember, I had a point when mentionning she was american. Thinking about the importance of the racial issue in the US, I immediatly thought I could get my message across by asking her if she could mention any black African country which was stable, affluent, free, and in the case she couldn’t, if I could then assume that black people too had innate inclinations towards violence, corruption, criminal behavior and such things. Yes, I know, I was naive…She agreed with me :rolleyes: And admitted that black people weren’t any better than (muslim) arab people.
At this point I gave up and let them discuss how racists (muslim) Arabs are…

You know what? I shouldn’t visit the SDMB so often. People on this board are way too much level-headed, rationnal, tolerant and cultured. You get accustomed to this, and when you come back to the “real virtual world”, you go for a major shock.

Sorry for the long rant, but since it’s the first one I write in several years, I hope you’ll be indulgent.

Well, Thank you for the rant, clairobscur. I was going to do one myself.

I don’t give a flying fuck how many ‘good’ Arabs there are.
I care about that woman - and her kid.

From: :

French leaders have harshly condemned a vicious anti-Semitic assault on a 23-year-old woman with a baby, who was attacked with knives as she rode on a commuter train north of Paris, her clothing cut and her body marked with swastikas.

The woman was mistakenly identified as a Jew by six men of North African and African origin

After slashing the stroller, the six attackers overturned it. The baby fell to the ground and suffered a mild bruise, the police said.

As you said, Nobody helped her. Goddamn fuckers.

How does anybody know the men were Arabs? Have they been apprehended? Or are we going on the word of the victim? Is she in a position to positively identify their country of origin? Is it possible that she made assumptions, too?

Bullshit. If I was beat up by six tall, blond men who were speaking Dutch, I would not consider it an unwarrented conclusion that I was assaulted by a bunch of freakin’ Dutchmen!

Open mind, brain falling out, et cetera.

Thank you for the inaccuracy and the bigotry in the title of your thread. You do not know if these attackers were indeed Arabs. You seem to even have no idea of it that not every one living in the MENA region is by definition Arab.
They could have been

  1. Turkoman
  2. Kurdish
  3. Berber
  4. Arab.
  5. From yet and other ethnicy.

Or did you see them and did you hear them declare that they were Arabs?

Second misleading item in your thread title. They perceived her as being Jewish.

Which seems to be absolutely normal? What does it say about the non-attacking people in that train, if they were Turkish, Arab, Berber, African, French, German, Dutch Italian; US, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Atheist whatever?
I know that if I would have been in that train, these whatever-they- were-and probably completely drugged and completely brainswashed-monsters would not have had the free podium to act like they wanted. They would have faced my interference with their lunatical hobby, which would not have been such a healthy situation for them. I don’t think I would have waited for that train to stop to have them thrown off it and I would not have been reluctant to help myself a bit doing that housecleaning.

Really? They why the bigotry in your title? Don’t you see your own faults here all why you start ranting about the bigotry in the chatroom?

The “refuse to integrate” bit is quite true for a lot of them.The racism among Muslim immigrants focussed at the citizens of the country they so called see as “their own” is amazing and widely spread. Especially when Berbers or Turks who come from villages where tradition is that much intertwined with religion that they perceive religion (their view on it) as the same as their cultural traditions.
Real Arabs who live in EU countries are very often much better situated then these groups both on financial and educational level.
So I’m sorry, but I am not all that convinced that these attackers were real “Arabs”. Of course for people like you all that comes from teh MENA is a bit coloured (not true even for the Berber people) and hence must be “Arab”.
(Surprize for you: If you would meet me in Paris, you would take me for a Nothern EU’er who just had a ski vacation.)

That is a question of perception but yes, many of them press their daughters, sisters, mothers, wives to dress as if they live “back in the homeland”, and including hidjab, because they do not want to loose the influence from that homeland on their family and their own little society
By the way: I am married twice and I have 5 children. Maybe it is a relief for the non-Arab bigots that 3 of them died before they were 3 years old. This way I can at least only bring 2 of them with me whenever I visit Europe and leave them with my mother’s relatives for a little vacation.
The less brownies - even half-brownies- who come over there, the better, no?

I wouldn’t say the Jews are “discrete” if that means that they merge completely in the non Jewish population and go about their lives unnoticed. My son used to call them "the men in black coats"before he was old enough to understand that they only follow their sect of Judaism which includes dressing themselves like they do.
What is true is that Jews don’t bother the communtiy of non- Jews with endless complaining about how “unfair” that community is towards them etc…You also don’t see hundreds of Jews taking the streets whenever a Jew gets arrested).
There is a section among Muslim immigrants that really provokes racism to flourish because of their own herd mentality and their own blaming society for everything. It is a vicious circle because the racism and bigotry they complain about really exists yet is shall not disappear by continiously playing the sole victim of it.

I would leave the “conquer the world” out of it. But there is most certainly a tendency among some Muslims to claim and declare that what is Islamic is superior to everything else in the world. Which gives only proof that they have no clue about the religion they claim to follow and even no clue about what is written in Al Qur’an. Yet profound knowledge of and real insight in what is written inthere is what many Muslims lack.

That is an old one. In fact nobody really knows how old Aisha really was. But this is for an other discussion.

All the rest of the comments you read are typical for people who have no clue about the issue and are brainwashed by the media. Probably she only speaks English which is on its own a barrier and a severe limitation.

I forgot to mention : meanwh

This type of reaction can only be fuelled by the tactics of Sharon and the hypocritical support of the US. As long as this issue isn’t solved, the whole ridiculous so called “war on terrorism” is as ridiculous as the terminology sounds.
Maybe next time you could remind someone who starts ranting about “stable, democratic, etc…” country in the region that there currently is a country under US occupation while there is since decades a country under US umbrella exporting the most extremist fundamentalist brand of what people call Islam that can be thought about. There are other dictatorships who only can survive because of the support of the West. But the Saudis beat them all.

Salaam. A

Dimwit. She’s contextualizing the views of the morons on the other chat groups.

They could have been speaking a Berber orTurkoman or Kurdish language, whatever. How many people in the West are even capable to make the difference between Arabic and these languages. Or between Arabic and Hebrew? How many people are there who even have a clue about it that not every Muslim speaks Arabic and not every Muslim is an Arab.
Salaam. A

Alde, have you ever heard of Occam’s Razor? There are something like 5 million Arabs in France. There are not 5 million Turkmens.

So it was apparently North Africans. The recent ME issues have stressed Jewish/Muslim relations in France so the assumption is not wildly out of place. Rarely do you get to hear about Botswanans scrawling swastikas across perceived Jews.

The nice thing is that stupid Europeans appear unable to differentiate between muslim/arab any better than stupid North Americans.


Many people think that every immagrant who ever entered France or the EU in general coming from Algeria or Morocco or Tunesia is by definition “Arab”.
The truth is that a majority of them - and especially true for those who come from Morocco - are Berber. (The vast majority of these groups does not even speak Arabic)

Salaam. A

After reading your longer post, I stand corrected (although how did I know you’d find a way to blame Sharon?). They might have been Kurds, or Berbers and not Arabs. However, they were Muslims outing out of the basest anitsemitism, which is somethin you can’t deny.

Of course, she’s making assumptions. Based on their appearance and look, most probably, because it’s quite likely they didn’t speak Arabic. A lot of second or third generation immigrants don’t speak it. Reports mention “maghrebins” (people of north-african descent). It’s still a pretty good bet that she wasn’t mistaken about them being what people over here call “arabs” (and which include people who actually aren’t arabs).

It is not only spreading in France. I heard there were recently 3 attacks on Jews (including a boy of 16 who was stabbed by apparently Moroccans) in Belgium.
The more Crazy Bush holds up the umbrella above Crazy Sharon and the more that comes out of the US occupation in Iraq, the more such young people shall be vulnerable for hate preaching agitation.
If I would be in charge, there would be a nice housecleaning done in all mosques all over the Western world and you would see the exodus of a few lunatical so called Imams toward a re-education camp communist style.

Salaam. A

Sounds like the Mexicans over here. Maybe Islam has a bigger influence in Latin America than we thought since the Irish and Italians were Catholic and they didn’t have any trouble assimilating immediately. :rolleyes:

Aldebaran: I think you missed clairobscur’s point. The way I read the OP, he was not disparaging Arabs. He was repeating the attitudes and concepts of the posters in the chat room. clairobscur was fighting against their racist comments. He was being sarcastic. Your anger should not be directed at clairobscur, but toward the people in the chat room he was mocking.

That’s laudable. I’ve read accounts of people being mugged in the Paris train station, being attacked by two or three young men, and commuters just ignored it. (I think there is a Pit thread about such a mugging from a year or so ago.) In New York in the '60s, several neighbours watched as Kitty Genovese was savagely murdered outside of their apartments. On the other hand, there have been muggers who were caught and beaten by joggers in Central Park. But I have an idea that many city dwellers “don’t want to get involved”.

Uhm…It’s Bush’s fault that European muslims are pissed off at Isreal’s Sharon and so knife Belgium Jews.

Did I get that right?

So, six Turkmen walk into a bar…

The bigotry was deliberate, and refered to the comments I heard in the chat-room.

Indeed. I should have written “arabs” (between " " ) instead of just Arabs in my first sentence, as I sometimes do. But it doesn’t change a thing about the content of my post, since all the people you mentionned are included in the “arab” category by french people, and I guess in many other places. And in all likehood too by the people I met in the chat-room.

The title wasn’t about what actually happened, but about the perception of what happened by the people in the chatroom. I’ve no reason to assume the young woman was “wealthy”, either.

No, it doesn’t seem absolutely normal. It’s precisely the reason why I mentionned that nobody present in the train did anything. I never stated that these people were arabs, or african, or french, or tuvalians. Actually, the police is still searching most of them.

The bigotry in my title was deliberate. I actually thought about writing something even more bigotted. The title is intended to illustrate what the people I’ve been talking with were thinking. That the “Arabs” are filthy, the Jews rich and influential, etc…

In case you were mistaken, which I can’t tell for sure by reading your post : What I wrote about Arabs, Jews, blacks, in this post isn’t what I think about them but what the people I was talking with were saying about them.

No. She spoke french too. And actually I think, based on her screenname, that she’s Hispanic. But being bi on trilingual isn’t a guarantee against prejudices.

Most probably. But it still isn’t an excuse. I don’t like Sharon the slightest bit, and I don’t assault random women and babies in trains.

Such comments would have been totally lost on them. They’re way too subtle. These people know they’re right, and it wasn’t a SDMB debate. They were (in particular the american girl) obviously and genuinely convinced they weren’t racist or prejudiced, or anything. They were objective.

I don’t know why I’m always a little surprised when I see how people interpret different meanings to others writings than I do. Am I off-kilter or are they? Johnny L A, I didn’t read Aldebaran’s post as attacking clairobscur’s OP. To me It seemed as if he was only upset with her title because he felt it reinforces bigotry. The rest of his post was responding to the racist comments that clair reported she saw in the chat room.

Off topic-
Aldebaran’s I have been remiss in not expresssing my sorrow for your loss. I believe that it’s best to explain to children that a family member who has died still lives on in our hearts and minds and that we should try our best to express this by attempting to live honorably.

If clair is the same chap I knew off of another website-he’s a guy, not a woman.