Your Ethical Inconsistencies

[Spice_Weasel]

I am of the mindset that morality is instinctive more than rational, that our sense of right and wrong, while it can be influenced, is essentially a knee-jerk reaction we like to justify with layers of logical maneuvering. I can’t change my sense of right and wrong on cue any more than I can change my religious beliefs. You know, it’s just who I am.

So I was thinking about the ways in which I am ethically inconsistent. Every time I try to nail down some kind of categorical moral framework for myself, I trip myself up with all the feelings in my gut.

My prime example is my feelings about harming sentient beings. I generally like to say that I am against harming any living thing - not just people - all things. I also like to say that the moral rightness or wrongness of harming a sentient being is directly proportional to its capacity to suffer.

But when I really look at my behavior and feelings, it’s kind of bullshit. Consider the following.

I hate killing bugs. Like, genuinely distressed by the death of insects. I had to spray for ants a few weeks ago and I still feel guilty for it. I also accidentally killed a spider when I started running bathwater the other day. I’m not rending my clothes and gnashing my teeth or anything, but I care about this enough to remember it. I’ve been this way since I was a small child.

I’m the same way about plants. I had to accept the death of a spider plant after it struggled along for a year or so. Now I have another plant dying and I feel incredibly guilty for it. When it doesn’t rain for a long time, I feel badly for the trees. I doubt plants know anything like the animal concept of suffering, but for whatever reason this matters to me.

But I can sit here feeling bad about ants and plants while chomping away on a chicken sandwich. It isn’t that I have no empathy whatsoever for the chicken, but I have less empathy for the chicken than for the ants and plants. When we get to human beings, it gets even more confusing. I seem to have the most empathy for social outcasts, up to and including violent criminals. For some reason the ‘‘people can’t control how their brain is wired’’ argument makes sense for axe murderers but not for assholes who cut me off on the freeway.

Bottom line is, there is no logical consistency to my sense of right and wrong, as far as I can see. I find this all very perplexing.

In what ways are you ethically inconsistent?

[wonky]

Like you, I think ethics are basically an attempt to logic out gut reactions. I have a lot of situations where if someone asks me “Would it bother you if I did X?” I think, “My god, how silly would I be if it bothered me if you did X?” and then I later realize that I don’t allow myself to do X because it bothers me. In other words, other people can do it, but I can’t.

For example, if I’m cleaning or working around the house and Asimovian is taking it easy, I don’t think anything of that. But if he’s cleaning or working around the house I feel awful and guilty for not helping because it’s WRONG not to help.

[Mean_Mr.Mustard]

If I see a human being in discomfort or pain, I will usually (not always) feel some measure of sympathy, but I can get past that pretty easily.

But if I see an animal suffering, that can stay with me for a long time.
mmm

ETA: Upon re-reading the OP, perhaps mine is not an ethics example.

[Rushgeekgirl]

It’s close to what you describe. I feel horrible about any animal or even bugs dying but I can eat the hell out of some steak without any bad feelings. Of course I’ve never seen one of those documentaries where they show how animals are slaughtered so it may just be a case of denial for me.

I don’t feel more sympathy for the ants and dying flowers (I HATE being given flowers because while they’re pretty, they’re essentially DEAD OBJECTS to me, and I find no joy in watching them wilt and shrivel.) I just find myself shutting down and separating “cow” from “steak” easily.

[LilyoftheField]

@olivesmarch4th

I’m the same way about plants. I had to accept the death of a spider plant after it struggled along for a year or so. Now I have another plant dying and I feel incredibly guilty for it. When it doesn’t rain for a long time, I feel badly for the trees. I doubt plants know anything like the animal concept of suffering, but for whatever reason this matters to me.

Bottom line is, there is no logical consistency to my sense of right and wrong, as far as I can see. I find this all very perplexing.

In what ways are you ethically inconsistent?

Okay, well this was just cruel. And totally inconsistent with your professed empathy. You let that poor dying plant just linger for ‘a year or so’? :eek: And now you’re doing it to another one? You’re a monster! Far kinder to just put them out of their misery quickly. At least when I kill plants I do it quickly, which makes me morally and ethically superior to you…

Not that I’m judging you, of course. Just sayin’ - don’t count on being raptured today.

[gallows_fodder]

One day, many years ago, I was walking through a grassy field and gradually became aware of a high-pitched squealing sound. Curiosity got the better of me and I went to investigate, and I found what looked like a hairless baby rabbit, covered with insects, and writhing and squealing. I think it was being eaten alive. Every fiber of my being was urging me to kill it and put it out of its misery, but I just couldn’t do it. I just couldn’t hurt and kill an animal, even if it meant ultimately helping it and ending its pain, and not killing it meant allowing it to suffer.

So I got really upset and flipped out crying, and ran home and got my roommate to come look at it, and he killed it without a moment’s thought.

And I was really mad at myself, for being too weak to do the humane and righteous thing in that case. But I just couldn’t kill it. I just couldn’t.

Now bugs, I have no problem killing. Except I do feel a little guilty about spiders, since I know they eat worse bugs. But, dude, if you’re a spider and you’re in my BED like the one I found the other day, you’re dead meat.

[Markxxx]

I know what you mean, I had mice in my flat last year. I felt bad killing the first one. But he invited all his friends in and I must’ve killed at least 20 and by the last time I was so mad, I couldn’t wait to stomp on them. I hated to use glue traps, but they were the only thing that worked. Snap traps, humane traps, rat poison, electronic zappers, the mice would just avoid.

I felt bad having to glue them, then kill them but you can’t live with mice in your house. If they were outside, fine let them live, but they’re not cute when they are in your home

[Joey_P]

@olivesmarch4th

But I can sit here feeling bad about ants and plants while chomping away on a chicken sandwich. It isn’t that I have no empathy whatsoever for the chicken, but I have less empathy for the chicken than for the ants and plants. When we get to human beings, it gets even more confusing. I seem to have the most empathy for social outcasts, up to and including violent criminals. For some reason the ‘‘people can’t control how their brain is wired’’ argument makes sense for axe murderers but not for assholes who cut me off on the freeway.

Bottom line is, there is no logical consistency to my sense of right and wrong, as far as I can see. I find this all very perplexing.

In what ways are you ethically inconsistent?

This doesn’t sound like an inconsistency so much as an “out of site/out of mind” thing. I’ll bet that if you had to kill the chicken yourself to make that sandwich, it would be different.
Similarly, for as much as if bothers you to kill an ant or watch a plant die, it probably doesn’t bother you that much that I have no problem flushing centipedes and spiders down the toilet all day long.
I get what you’re saying, I’m just adding another layer of justification to your knee jerk reactions to make your moral compass that much more screwed up

[Snickers]

I see what you’re saying, Olives, but I think your specific example (worrying about live things without a second thought to what’s in your sandwich) has a lot more to do with timing than your total lack of an empathetic compass. (Hee! You’re one of the more empathetic posters around here).

See, the bugs and trees and spider plant are or were currently still living. (Well, maybe not the spider plant. Anyway.) The chicken in your sandwich isn’t. And while we certainly can spend a good deal of time talking about ethical treatment of animals and humane butchering techniques, none of that helps the chicken in your sandwich now. Done is done, and all that. I have full belief that if a chicken were running around your kitchen right this minute, you wouldn’t be eying it up thinking, “I can make a killer sammitch outta that.”

So, today’s ethical dilemma? Averted.

[Athena]

I’m like everyone else - I love all da liddle cuuutesy critters running around. Baby lambs are so cute! I put out feed for the birds, and almost all the stale bread/veggy trimmings/etc go out for the squirrels.

That said, I’ve often wondered how those big gray squirrels would taste if lightly grilled, and I’m pretty sure I could make a mean chickadee salad if I could catch about 20 of 'em.

[zoid]

I’m your basic cafeteria catholic.
I go to church on Sunday with the kids and sing all the songs, but I honestly don’t believe that homosexuality is in any way wrong and I firmly believe in the proper use of contraceptives. I think the church it just plain wrong on these issues. I want my young children to have a basic moral background but I’m honest with them about my beliefs that do not align with the churches and I try to concentrate on the love your neighbor as you love yourself stuff instead of the judgmental stuff. I suppose the more stringent catholics will say I’m not a real catholic, so be it, I can live with that.

[Alka_Seltzer]

Lots of things I can relate to in this thread.

@olivesmarch4th

I am of the mindset that morality is instinctive more than rational, that our sense of right and wrong, while it can be influenced, is essentially a knee-jerk reaction we like to justify with layers of logical maneuvering.

I think there is some evidence to back this up, like the results to the train dilemma.

A. You are standing at a railway switch as an oncoming train rapidly approaches from the left. Just beyond you is a fork in the track. Five innocent people, unaware of the train, are standing on the left fork. One innocent man is standing on the right. If you do nothing, the train will veer to the left and kill the five people. If you throw the switch, the train will veer to the right and kill the man. Should you do it?

B. Now you are standing on an open footbridge that crosses a track. A large man is beside you. A runaway train is approaching at high speed. Just beyond the bridge, behind you, five people are standing on the track. The only way to save them is to push the large man immediately off the bridge into the train’s path. Should you do it?

Most people (about 80% IIRC) will answer yes to A and no to B, despite the fact in both cases it’s a 5 for 1 trade. It seems not just that our ethics are instinctive and inconsistent, but that we have a tendency to share the same instinctive values. It takes a lot of thought and care to act ethically, and even then I think the best we can often do is to muddle through.

@olivesmarch4th

I hate killing bugs. Like, genuinely distressed by the death of insects. I had to spray for ants a few weeks ago and I still feel guilty for it. I also accidentally killed a spider when I started running bathwater the other day. I’m not rending my clothes and gnashing my teeth or anything, but I care about this enough to remember it. I’ve been this way since I was a small child.

I’m not sure this will help, but each of us probably kills far more insects accidently than we do deliberately. It would be very difficult to live our lives if we checked the ground at every step.

I’m currently in a state of positive insect karma (or at least, that’s what I’m telling myself), as I saved a bee from drowning in my sink the other day. It was still on the window still looking bedraggled the next day, so I gave it a drink of fruit juice in a saucer, and it eventually flew off.

@Markxxx

I felt bad having to glue them, then kill them but you can’t live with mice in your house. If they were outside, fine let them live, but they’re not cute when they are in your home

Yes, I’ve been through this. I enjoy watching the mice run around in the hedge outside my parent’s window, stealing crumb from the bird stealers. But the moment I saw one running across my flat my reaction was disgust, vermin! I hate the idea of glue paper, but I’d have used it if that was the only way to get rid of it.