I said I made it explicit for clarity and said in real life the gender roles would be unspoken. So a realistic statement would be:
You are a male customer service rep and a woman complains to your female boss about how you were not empathetic to her plight. Your boss tell you to show emotions to the clients to let them know you care. What is your takeaway from that meeting knowing “showing emotions” is considered a female trait in our society.
But honestly, that doesn’t address you point about context. There is no appropriate context for a male boss to tell female employees to stop being “emotional”. And that’s my point. Men can rationalize it all they want but in any context it is a microaggression. And yet they don’t see the unspoken sexism inherent in the word.
My wife had a male boss tell her not to call a group of women “ladies” because it is offensive.
She does not find it offensive.
She asked the women she works with. None of them found it offensive.
I asked my female students if they found it offensive because I call them “ladies” all of the time. None of them did.
But I guess a man knows better than women what offends women.
I’ve been told by a couple of women that they see “guys” as a gender neutral term now, including them in the group, and prefer it to a phrase like “guys and girls”.
Just reporting from my own circle. Don’t pretend to know if it’s widespread.
I am wondering about the double-standard, though. We aren’t allowed to say women tend to be more emotional than men, but “toxic masculinity” (your own words) is perfectly fine. I also hear women accuse men of “mansplaining,” which apparently is also perfectly fine. So I’m confused.
Toxic masculinity is a term for bullshit gender norms that impact men, such as being told from a young age that crying is something that only “sissies” do. I’m not sure why you think it’s a double standard to discuss them.
I would tend to agree with this. I mean it would be nice if training helped people to become more tolerant. But realistically, it’s more about telling people what behaviors will and will not be tolerated in your workplace. That way they have no excuse to be like “I didn’t know I couldn’t do that”.
Late to the thread, and skipping to the bottom to share an overview of the anti-bullying and anti-harassment training I have to take yearly. The training does describe what does and does not count as bullying and harassment. It describes how to report. And it gives scenarios and example supportive actions. The training said it’s usual to not know what to say in the moment, and gave some examples of how to support the victim after the fact. The training emphasizes personal safety. I think it’s more practical than sensitivity training, while showing sympathy for the victims.
“Girls” applies to, well, girls. Children, not adult women.
No one wants “guys and women”, or “guys and ladies” and certainly never “guys and females” (nevermind “other-identifying individuals”). “Gals” just hasn’t gained popularity and feels very dated to me, dated to a time where women weren’t particularly viewed with respect.
We simply haven’t developed an equivalent to “guys” that works in more inclusive manner (folks? Peeps? Gang? Dorks?).
It is entirely possible to just say “hi!” or “hey everyone!” without adding a gendered term at all, do that’s what I generally do and what I recommend.
Though I personally don’t mind being addressed in a group with “guys” and given as I’m one of very few women on my company, I actually hate when people try to correct and “include me” by referencing my gender. In French , I prefer masculine or gender neutral terms too; something about “inspectrice” grates at me (a function I do, not even my title). I do identify as female, but why is it even a subject to comment on? (I fully realize this is a “me” problem; I rarely say anything unless asked, but it’s still my preference).
Well, no. Actual “toxic masculinity” is often commonly referred to as “acting like an asshole”.
Years ago, I used to work at a different firm that had a bit of a “Wolf of Wall Street” culture. Now some activities like being out late drinking and hanging out in strip clubs wasn’t inherently wrong, but did perhaps create a culture of exclusion or people (especially women) who did not want to partake in those activities.
But some behaviors like loudly making off-colored jokes in the office, hitting on or being overly “touchy feely” with female coworkers, and routinely mocking one of the project managers whenever she brought these behaviors to people’s attention definitely fall within the realm of toxic behavior.
As for “not crying” or “being a sissy”, I think the reason men are taught this was because historically a man is supposed to earn a living and protect his family. Crying, whining, bitching, and learning inclusive behaviors doesn’t help that.
