No, it doesn’t follow that the OP has to mean nothing.
Humans do good and evil. Does that fact make any research into humans “mean nothing?”
(italics mine)
Yeah, keep your insults to yourself, David42. One doesn’t have to read the Bible carefully, you could refer to post #48, wherein God’s admission of creating evil was already mentioned, and cited. See below:
↑ Oh! Was that me? Can’t be. David42 stated that no one in this thread reads the Bible carefully! Must have been a coincidence. Could it be… <Church Lady> Satan?!? <Church Lady/>
I realize that some devout Christians feel you have a leg-up on Biblical studies, but some of us have studied the Good Book as a literary work without bias, with a critical eye, and via multiple sources. (Not me, I’ve only barely studied it in an academic environment, as the constant disputes among believers in the classroom derail most any attempt at examining the text. And Good God, you should hear what happens when a student sneezes: the santicmonious "Bless You! God Bless You!! May God Bless You!'s echo around the room for half an hour as each Christian ensures that others hear the sincere piety in their voices. If you want to learn anything in a Bible course, don’t take it during cold and flu season.) And for those of us with only a passing familiarity, Google-fu leads to a wealth of sources for Biblical exegesis. Deep meditation isn’t a requirement for understanding the mythical influences that were borrowed by the authors or the cultural values during the period this book was written. As far as studying Greek, Latin, and every other early translation: no longer necessary for the layman as all translations are neatly available with a couple clicks. Biblioshas a ton of modern translations and the entire site is one of the coolest, most comprehensive reference cites around. Game-changer for sure.
Maybe that’s the reason these discussions peter out; because there isn’t much “evidence” believers can offer that a layman can’t confirm or deny in matter of minutes. Maybe this is why kanicbird’s testimony is somewhat intriguing (albeit perplexing); we can say “Nah.” We can poke a stick at it, but none of us can examine or dispute his personal revelations unless he posts a verse that references his fancies. But once we have that verse, it’s on.
If the OP believes it to be the work of god it is not up to us to explain it.
Read post #297 in reference to this, it is a very rare set of circumstances that lead up to a situation which I may or may not have been over the limit.
To me it does sound like the occasional flub-up that God corrects.
But even if you are correct, then what of it, all is working for the Good, so even if I am mistaken but my heart if for God and seeking God always then God will correct it in His time.
And yes I do know that scripture. Perhaps part of the reason for this post is to go over that event.
The OP asked for our explanation of this work of God. Aside from that, occasionally persons who claims they hear or see God do very bad things in the name of that impression. See CNN video about White House shooter Ortega here. Such events cause us to question claims of divine intervention.
You miss the point spectacularly. It’s not about meaning in general, it’s about evidential meaning. If the OP says “hey, event A happened, therefore my god exists” but it turns out that every single alternative to “event A happened” would also be compatible with his god existing, then “event A” and every alternative to event A are not meaningful when it comes to evidence for his god.
‘This work of god’ is the explenation of the OP. All we can do is agree or disagree with that explenation.
I don’t question your motivation. I am sure that love does motivate you. But love means many things to many people; are you measuring your love by 1 Cor 13?
But your method of discerning spirits seems of concern to me. It seems to me that your method is some amalgam of a ‘gift’ and love which I really don’t quite understand.
Now some gifts, Paul writes, are for the individual himself, such as a speaker of tongues that is not interpreted to the church; whereas other gifts are for the edification of others, such as prophecy.
Which do you suppose a gift of discerning spirits is? Is it for you alone, or is it to help others with?
Kanicbird, if what you’re telling us in this thread is true, please, see about getting some professional help. I’m not being snarky – I’m serious. This is not healthy. (And drinking and driving is NOT something to fool around with, even if “God will protect you”, I doubt it’s something he’d approve of)
Seriously, get help. Please.
I don’t see where there’s an insult there, but if there was, I am sorry for it.
I thought I said, “for people who read carefully…” and it wasn’t directed at anyone in particular. I wrote that because it is very common for people who will say they know the bible to not know about it. Perhaps I would conclude that you do in fact read carefully because you made a post about it.
If you think a few clicks on isolated subjects or verses is the equivalent of years of dedicated study of the scripture, you are dreaming.
You may also make a few clicks and learn some human anatomy and surgery methods, but that doesn’t make you a surgeon.
You write as though I try to hide the ease of the internet from dopers, yet you seem not to acknowledge that I have been very free with knowledge of internet study tools, i.e., Blue Letter Bible. It’s about the equivalent of Biblos. Or is your complaint that I didn’t mention ALL internet sites that offer study tools? I even went to the trouble to briefly explain a little about how to use BLB.
But I really wanna ask you, if the Hebrew and Greek aren’t useful or needed, why do both BLB and Biblos offer it? Evidently some bible scholars do, after all, think that original languages are a good thing to look at.
Your English Translation Only doctrine of exegesis is doubtful and not impressive, so you’ll pardon me if I happen to disregard your lesser-informed opinions that you seem to form in the matter of a few clicks and with less deep consideration than you *could *give it.
This has been a terrible thread for awhile now. Either kanicbird is not posting in good faith, and we’re all having a laugh in the wrong forum, or he is posting in good faith and everyone else is just knocking on the aquarium glass. Either way, GD is a worse place to be because of it.
Troppus, for your education, here’s an outline of how to perform exegesis.
You are welcome to gift me with a Greek or Latin Bible, but I can only read English. Luckily, the numerous scholars who have an extensive background in Greek and Latin offer trustworthy translations and commentary that a layman can read. And just like any other source or cite, I don’t take one person’s word as fact; I look at several works to find common agreement. And because I have zero interest in learning Greek or Latin, I have zero desire to spend the years necessary to mastery the nuances and subtleties of a dead language, or one that I’ll never use in my daily life and travels. I choose to spend my time studying other subjects, such as literature, history, and natural history. Note I mentioned literature first: as I am not a believer, I can only examine the Bible as an intriguing literary work, and nothing more. When I have questions about how believers *feel *about a certain passage: I have to ask someone experienced in those matters, and I respect their answer. (Unless it’s really far out, which **kanicbird’s **assertions seem to be.)
As I stated above: I can dispute the meaning, intent, and historical context of any verse in the Book either from the formal studies I have done, or from using my own references on hand and online. I am not unchurched; I attended several denominations as a kid, and still attend whenever the spirit moves me. My experience with the Bible is more than passing, but I am unable to experience the evident smugness you feel simply because you apply emotion to the verses you read.
You seem to miss that my motivation here is to help kanicbird out of a probably mistaken predicament? I don’t know how you get this emotional-laden argument, I am simply pointing out what scripture says and applying it to kanicbird’s situation. It’s not bothering him, I don’t think.
In what manner should I try to help kanicbird instead? And if I disagree with your manner too much, why don’t you try explaining to kanicbird his mistake?
I really don’t see the basis of your objections other than you seem to be annoyed if people try to take a talk about the bible seriously. You seem to be after me personally rather than my arguments, since you keep talking about the arrogance you perceive.
Kanic, we would have to start out by proving the existence of a god of any kind. Can you do that? Because unless the answer is yes and you can conclusively show such proof, the only explanation is coincidence.
I can’t help it. I keep resisting, but I just can’t. I keep imagining the following scenario:
Trooper: Let me see your identification.
Michael: [with a small wave of his hand] You don’t need to see his identification.
Trooper: We don’t need to see his identification.
Michael: These aren’t the drunks you’re looking for.
Trooper: These aren’t the drunks we’re looking for.
Michael: He can go about his business.
Trooper: You can go about your business.
I can think of two others.
I’ve pointed out your baseless condescencion a couple times, that is enough reason to question your authority over all things Biblical. You claim to want to help kanicbird, and correct his “mistakes”, yet you haven’t stated what credentials you possess that enable you to perform this task, though you have admitted that you are self-taught and unaffiliated. In fact, although **kanicbird **has opened himself up for discussion and is well aware that he is likely to meet dissension on this board, he hasn’t asked any of us for help.
Aside from all that, throughout this thread both you and kanicbird have sworn the ability to receive private messages from God which cannot be tested, proven or demonstrated for others. And you are arguing over which of you has the correct perception of personal spiritual epiphany??
Ahem, post #279, thank you very much!
Ahem, post #277, thank you very much!