Your opinion doesn't matter- Troll

The BBQ Pit
1

What I hate the most is people that get off on degrading others. I am not the brightest bulb in the bunch, and I realize that, but it still hurts when people insult my intelligence. I may be stupid, but I am not immune to my emotions.
I have been searching lately for aids in helping me achieve my newly found dream of becomming a writer. I have found many sites, some message boards to discuss what I need to do to start on the road to realizing those dreams.
I posted on this site, a small scriptwriting message board, and inquired about where to start.
I was answered nicely by the Moderator there, and perhaps the owner of the site. He gave me some good info, and I replied. Then some troll comes along and tries to dash my hopes. Here is what he says.

So I say to you, fuckhead, If I wanted your opinion on if I was a good writer or not, I would have asked “What do you think of my writing, Am I good or not” Not, how do I become a good writer. Take your snobby, haughty attitude and shove it up your atomically tight sphinxter.
I am not going to listen to somebody say "if you aren’t born being a great author/artist/whatever, then you can never be good. This just shows your true intelligence and tells me to shy away from your worthless advice. It hurts me to see that, yes, I do indeed have bad grammar, and spelling too, but that can be learned, and I have advanced in it amazingly. If I had posted before I took over my dream of someday writing, It would look like this:

hey i want to write someday, do u have any advice on how to do it? i want to be a gewd writer and write things that are gewd. help me.

I have toiled and worked hard just to meet the basic parameters of good grammar and writing skills, and may have just touched the tip, but I am constantly working on bettering myself. I rid myself of my Television, and only participate in pastimes that may have some bearing on helping me in this field alone. Roleplaying, messageboarding, reading and writing. So to you goathead, go and shove your “advice” slowly and intimatly. Next time I want your opinion I will search you down and email you my question personally.

Asshole

2

Ugh, I just realized that my grammar and syntax sucks in my rebuttal of his post. I am sure he will “politely” point out my errors so that I may correct them in the future. Doubt rises once again, how long can I hold it back…

3

Amen. Furthermore, no one person has the authority to decide who has talent or not. I’ve read authors whom I thought were complete hacks, but they’re sitting on piles of money thanks to great sales and publishing contracts. And I’ve read people whom I’ve thought were brilliant writers who get nada.

Which might just go to show I’m no judge of talent, but I’ve met people who share my opinions of certain writers on either score… so clearly, there is a boatload of sheer opinion when it comes to talent, and anyone who professes to be able to accurately evaluate one’s talent or potential for success after a few message board posts is hubris defined. And they probably don’t know jack shit about writing, either.

I think what you’re running into is the teeth-gritting angst that writers feel when people at cocktail parties offhandly say “Oh, I’ve been meaning to write, if I only had the time…” They’re all bent because so many people think anyone can do it. It contributes to their paranoid territoriality and occasional refusal to show support for other writers. Probably the starving, unpublished, suffering soul who trashed you just sat through a Sunday dinner of their Aunt Gillie feeding them “a great idea for a book, just like Danielle Steele might write, honey!” You got the brunt of it.

4

Actually, that first line you have there is pretty good advice. Pretty much every author I’ve heard talk about writing has started with that admonishment, “Find a different job.” The rest of the post is totally ignorable. Especially the part where he seizes on a single typo in your post and from that concludes you have no talent. Because real authors always hand in letter perfect manuscripts that need no rewriting or correction of any kind. If people like you tried to publish stuff, they’d need somebody to edit the typos and misspellings, some sort of editor, if you can imagine such an unlikely beast.

I doubt I need to tell you this, but the guy’s a moron. Ignore him.

BTW: My compliments on the excellent spelling and grammar in your post.

5

Listen, man, I’ve got a sh*tload of talent and I still can’t make it as a writer. Dedication and hunger are just as vital, as is a simple DESIRE to write. Do it because you like it, and hey… you’re a writer!

What other people think is, and has always been, irrelevant. Go for it.

ps: we encouraged you, remember. We get 20% of everything…

6

First off, fuck this guy and the horse he rode in on. Keep writing, especially if that’s what you love to do.

Second, I hope one of our resident grammar mavens will come in and help pick apart his reply to you- I’m POSITIVE they will find some errors. That way you can write him a quick note thanking him for his time and correcting his response.

What a fucknut.

Zette

7

A few years back, I got a spec in at Deep Space Nine, and in preparation for pitching they sent me a binder full of material, including two produced scripts. I can’t say that both scripts had typos and misplaced commas galore, but a good number did jump out at me.

This is not to excuse poor grammar, but only to point out that the “pros” make the occasional error as well. I certainly will accept that these shooting scripts were more than likely final-typed by a secretary, but still they were sent out to the public, and IMO represented Paramount Pictures.

I have a copy of an early draft of Chinatown with notations where Robert Towne misspelled words.

My opinion is this: be 95-99% accurate, and don’t sweat the typos. Do remember “could have” though.

All best,

Sir Rhosis

8

Well, some people around here think I’m a decent writer.

The fact is “A writer writes.”

I don’t write because I’m looking to entertain others, or any other reason than I feel compelled to do so.

I look back at stuff I wrote ten years ago, and I cringe. Again, a writer writes and practice makes a better writer.

I’m about 2/3 of the way through a novel that I believe will be published. Whether or not it is, I had a great time writing it, and that’s what’s important.

If I were to give advice, I’d say practice in dribs and drabs. Practice writing a description of a single event from different “character” viewpoints. Practice dialogue.

One of the toughest things to do is develop a voice.

I recommend reading E.B. White’s The Elements of Style. Pick up a Warriner’s Grammar. Read them both. Understand the rules. Once you do, feel free to disregard them.

Proper grammar and syntax don’t mean much, IMO. Using both properly on the other hand is immeasurable important. What I mean is that once you know what the rules are, you can break them freely.

Finally, one of the most important milestones to becoming a writer, is having people tell you that you suck and have not talent. You can take these as proof positive that you do have talent, as your writing was clearly good enough to earn the ire of somebody who had no talent and knows it.

These people are quite common, and they seek to “help” you by putting you down. They are failed writers themselves, and they assuage their bitterness by foisting it on others.

I think there is a clear correlation between people telling you you suck and posessing real talent.

You’ll meet a lot of these people. Don’t worry about them.

Write what you like. Do it because you enjoy it, and feel passionate about the subject. Develop a voice, and have fun with it.

If you do, others will appreciate your efforts. That will be nice, but nothing compared to the self-fulfillment.

9

Just one point to make here. Steven KIng admits to not
being a big fan of reading. As do alot of best selling
authors I’ve heard of. I beleive it helps keep your creative
writting style your own.

10

Well, it seems to me the guy was being a little harsh and condescending – I don’t see how you can decide that someone’s a lousy writer for making a few grammatical/spelling/whatever errors.

At the same time, it’s worth keeping in mind that writing is a field in which lots of people fail.

Another interesting thing about writing is how judgmental people get about it. So many people seem to think they have a monopoly on the Truth about what is Good Writing and what isn’t. I first noticed this in third grade when my third grade teacher criticized me for following rules taught in second grade. More than 20 years later, I still get this all the time.

Anyway, I say if it’s your dream, it’s worth a shot.

11

Thank you all for the kind replies. I think the posters’ words struck home a bit hard, due to my own prevailing doubts. I will in no way give up because of this lackadaly, but it still smarts, and irritates me.

I wondered briefly if perhaps he was lashing out at me because of doubts of his own. If so, perhaps my reply helped him, as well as serving a bit of a scathing.

I feel better now, much better now that everyone here has encouraged me. I know its hard, this road we travel, full of pitfalls and bandits, but it is good to know that many still follow it. And in knowing, adds strength and purpous to my journey. Perhaps it will even add to the elation once I am published. :slight_smile:

12

King also mentions in in the notes of one of his books that he got a “C” (I think, it could have been a “D” or worse.) in a creative writing class. He then sent his story in to a magazine and sold it.

If he had listened to his teacher, he would be selling insurance or digging ditches.

There is NO art or entertainment that everybody loves. There is someone who will hate anything. Don’t let them grind you down.

13

Don’t listen to that @sshole. Like Scylla said, go for “The Elements of Style”, it should be reread every few years.

14

If the condescending killjoy that tried to squash your hopes had his way, I might never have had the joy of reading the poetry of e.e. cummings – he probably would have pointed out the lack of capitalization :rolleyes:. Live the dream, Epimetheus!

15

Actually, SK stated in his On Writing that reading is one of the most- actually THE most- important thing a writer can do, and talked about how he himself read all the time. Even included a long list of books that were important to him over the years. Everything from Charles Dickens to Harry Potter. :slight_smile: Which is pretty true- I don’t really see how you can want to write, yet dislike reading; the two really do go together.

16

Every six months, at the very least. I tell you no lie, I get hot and bothered reading through the 'ole “Elements of Style”. I mean that. That is not a joke or an exageration. If I could find it on an audiobook, I’d play it like music.

On writting and reading: it seams to me that when developing as a writer, one must be a voracious reader–you need to see what has come before, not reinvent the wheel. On the other hand, there comes a time when you books can be used as a way to delay writting–rather like endless research can be used to delay starting a non-fiction piece. At some point you have to put away the books and move to the keyboard. You may go back to the books afterwords, but they are too often and too easily used as a way to make yourself feel that you are “a writer” when what you are is a groupie of other writers. But you have to read a good many books before you reach that point.

17

I had a post prepared earlier this afternoon, but the board went down for maintenance just as I was going to preview. Some other posters, especially Scylla, have already said some of the things that I would have said earlier. In particular, I concur with the importance of being familiar with The Elements of Style. It’s a fairly thin book, but every page has practical and useful information. It’s an essential addition to the bookshelf of any writer.

In any case, here is a slightly edited version of what I was trying to post before the board was taken offline.

First of all, let me commend you on your restrained response to him at that board. I know I could not have been so civil. Kudos for your thought-out and reasoned reply to his ignorant and offensive message.

Second, my advice, which you are free to disregard at your pleasure. I’ve made a a list of my advice below:

  1. Ignore him. Ignore anyone who pisses on your dreams. Prove him wrong. I’ve made a career out of proving people wrong, and I’ll tell you, it’s a lot of fun.

  2. As for education, I see that you’re about to enter college. They’re bound to have a few writing classes, even creative writing classes. Do check them out, but keep in mind that they can only help with the processes and mechanics of writing. As for general education, I can only say that a well-rounded and diverse selection of coursework cannot hurt. I used my electives to take classes ranging from archaeology, world politics, history of minorities, Shakespeare, geology, sociology, psychology, etc. I’m bound to use a lot of the material that I was exposed to for a stepping stone to a future story.

  3. I’m a writer myself. The best advice I’ve ever heard from anyone was that when writing a first draft, do NOT edit yourself during that draft. Just get it all out without any regard for how you or anyone else might like it. Only begin editing after you’ve completed the draft.

  4. There are a lot of books out there about writing. Not all of them are really worth the time. If you’re interested, I’ll let you know about my recommendations.

  5. Google is nice, but Yahoo is better when you’re trying to find a subject category of websites. Go to Yahoo.com and type in “creative writing”. I guarantee that you will find some very good links. My favorites are http://www.writerswrite.com and http://www.writersdigest.com

  6. Short stories vs. novels. What to write first? I started out writing short stories, and am currently writing my first novel. Short stories take less time to write, but pay less. Novels take longer to write, but can pay more. It is widely accepted that short stories are actually harder to write than novels, because the space constraints often tests a beginning writer’s ability to completely tell a story.

  7. It’s good that you read a lot. Study from the masters, but don’t fall into the trap of trying to imitate a writer’s style. Don’t worry about your own style…just write and one will naturally develop. It will take time for a distinctive style to emerge, but if you write enough, one will emerge without your being conscious of it.

  8. Relatively few writers actually manage to support themselves financially solely through writing. Most work full-time or part-time jobs. Personally, I work as an audiologist to pay the bills. It helps that I actually like my profession, but writing is my first love.

That’s all I can think of for now. Like I said earlier, if you’re interested in my recommendations for books on writing that I have found the most helpful and the most instructive, let me know. I only haven’t mentioned them here for fear of writing a post that would have been excessively long.

18

WHY does a scriptwriter need to be either a grammarian or a book-lover?

I’d think you’d need a strong sense of the vernacular (e.g. “i may as well not of had attended”) and a knack for the pithy turn of phrase. Good storytelling, a love of movies, etc.

But grammar and spelling?

19

A scriptwriter is still a writer, and I think any writer worth their salt should have some basic understanding of grammar and spelling.

Like it or not, spelling does count. A written document that is riddled with spelling errors does not reflect well upon the writer, regardless of his or her intelligence. I can’t imagine a manuscript, screenplay, or script being accepted anywhere if it is poorly spelled and shot through with grammatical errors.

20

Strunk & White is fine, you can fix your grammar but you still need to know how to write. I personally recommend “On Writing Well” by William Zinsser. He wrote a companion volume “On Writing With a Word Processor” back in the early days when WP wasn’t so common, it contains tons of good advice on organizing your work, and it’s still relevant.