It isn’t justice, and it certainly is cowardice – complete spinelessness. If you don’t have the ability to deal with gross mistreatment – and don’t have managers who will back you up when it comes to that – then you need a different job. Because this one reduces you to a level of petty vindictiveness that should be beneath you – that should be beneath everyone.
And I don’t know where you work, though I wish I did (name and city) so I could remind myself never, ever to dine there. But the restaurants I worked in were completely average; they just were staffed with people, not worms.
Jodi, please. Does everyone know that there is a Pit thread going where sentiments may be expressed that are not appropriate for this forum? Jodi, you should.
And I will also say that people meet the expectations you set for them, and behave in ways that they know their peers will find acceptable. I was NEVER a waiter who would have allowed food to be adulterated and then served, if I had any knowledge of it. I would not have ratted out a cook or waiter for trying – at least not on their first attempt – but I would have forcibly removed the dish, wrecked it, and made them remake it. More than one attempt and I probaby would have notified the manager, since serving adulterated food would be completely antithetical to the mission of the restaurant.
As far as the other scenarios were concerned (the ring, the keys), I have never in my life been a person who would just stand by while one person fucks with another. If I saw you take someone else’s property under any circumstances, I would report it with the expectation you would be arrested (in public) or fired (on the job).
And although I am IRL not nearly as must of a tight-ass as I know I am appearing here, I generally convey that I’m not someone to be fucked with. So even if I did have the misfortune to work with people who would do this sort of thing, they sure as hell weren’t doing it around me.
I think they do it around you because you’re the type who does it yourself.
It’s justice for me and I don’t see it as cowardice. That’s all I need. Doing nothing would be cowardice. All we can do on these points is ATD.
Well, you’re on to something there: My managers surely don’t support us in the vast majority of cases. Maximum profitability does not lay along such lines.
I’m sorry to inform you that worms are everywhere. But as far as the risk you’d face if I served you, you are probably a decent person and I’m sure you’d be perfectly safe (speaking truly).
Of course you don’t see it as cowardice. You couldn’t justify it if you did. But it is. And I would not want to run the risk by eating in your restaurant, thanks.
#1. I don’t wait tables anymore. Haven’t for almost 20 years. #2 I was (am, I suppose. it’s a like riding a bike) a superlative waiter. #3 when I was waiting tables, even if you stiffed me, I would have smiled at you as you left and said “Have a nice day”. I am not waiting tables now, and as such I have the freedom to call an asshole an asshole to his face.
Sorry, wrong. When people get paid less because the customer is expected to contribute to their salary, refusing to make that contribution is stealing. I did not say weather it was legal or not, but morally and ethically it is stealing. You’re free to do it-as I said, it’s not illegal-but doing so does reveal the content of your character (in this case, the lack thereof) and I will treat you as the thief that you have revealed yourself to be in future dealings.
In fact, he is not. And that was the point I was addressing.
In fact it does, if I’m collecting the check. Someone has to be responsible for collecting the check, and if it’s me than I am just that-responsible.
I did. Which means that the person who intended to steal from the waiter stole from me. So I make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Wanna bet? It’s all in how it’s said. Tone, voice inflection, etc. Tell ya what, why don’t you come to a MAD gathering and try to skip on the tip. We’ll see for ourselves.
Well, if they are inclined to pull that shit, and knowing that I won’t put up with it makes them not dine with me, then I’d say that we’re both likely ahead of the game, wouldn’t you? I am a charming and delightful dinner companion, unless you try to steal from your server. Pay your way and you’ll have no problems with me.
Well, that’s a mighty odd definition of “stealing” you’ve got there. You admit the tip is a mere expectation, and I presume you admit that no specific or particular amount is required – depending as it does at least in theory on the quality of service – so I fail to see how it could possibly meet any definition of stealing, be it legal, moral, or ethical. And you do not get to decide my morals or ethics for me, just as you don’t get to tell me how to handle any particular tipping situation. You are neither required or allowed to impose your own unique ethic/moral definitions on me.
You are not required to collect the check. You can decline the responsibility. If in fact you cannot resist situations in which you’re on your feet and screaming in a restaurant, you might want to let someone else handle the task.
They only “stole” from you or the waiter using your own odd definition of “stealing.” Again, you are neither required nor even allowed to impose your own odd ethics and morals upon others. Not only is it not your responsibility, it is not your privilege.
Oh, please. Don’t puff your chest up at me; considering this is the internet, it only makes you look ridiculous. I would never put myself in the position of allowing you to embarrass both yourself and me, much less the rest of the unwilling audience subjected to your display against their will. Since a public hissy fit by you is apparently on the agenda for MAD gatherings, I’m afraid I’ll have to decline.
Ha! Yeah, you’ve got charming and delightful written all over you. God knows what other behaviors might transgress your own personal moral and ethical standards – standards not held by most of the rest of society – and uncertainty as to when I might transgress, and what your bizarre reaction might be, would definitely make me forego your charming and delightful company.
While I don’t think most servers do “bad things”, at some places it’s actually somewhat systematic. A good friend who’s an exceptionally good server and one of the most ladylike broads you’ll meet as well worked, along with my cousin who also verified the story, for a [theme-chain-restaurant-you-would-recognize/think-song-title] years ago and on the touch screen ordering system they would add a #EAR at the end of certain orders. (It was one of the few keys you could enter without screwing up the order- the computer just sort of ignored it.) There were internal rules and it could not be overused, but it meant “the customer is an asshole- Engage Asshole Rules”. This was the food that was “accidentally” thrown on the floor, overly seasoned, had .25 cut off to give a smaller portion/same price, or whatever the kitchen confederates were in the mood for. Again, it wasn’t used daily, but it was used, and it wouldn’t be used for saying “hold the pickles” or “substitute mashed potatoes for the fries” but for sexually harassing a waitress (or waiter) or being generally obnoxious or insulting or, in one instance, for being a drunk and obnoxious Corey Haim.
I mention for oddity one story from there that caused an uproar even though it wasn’t intentionally being obnoxious. A diner, who happened to be Jewish, ordered a charbroiled steaky, medium well. When it came out it was not as done as he liked so he sent it back, leaving more char-grill marks on the steak. He still didn’t like it and sent it back again, it returned a few minutes later. He demanded to speak to a manager and accused the restaurant staff of being anti-Semitic. The manager argued (they didn’t even know he was Jewish) and when he asked for evidence he pointed to the steak. The grill marks had, coincidentally (because the cook couldn’t have done it intentionally probably if asked to) formed an identifiable star of David.
This is my definition of stealing. A server is paid less than the minimum wage assuming that there will be a tip. They are taxed on these tips weather or not they receive them. When I was waiting tables the government assumed a tip of 8% of the check total, it might be more now, and the server was responsible for the tax liability on that 8%. If you stiff the server, then they have to eat that tax liability. It costs them money. How is that NOT stealing?
My lovely wife and I love to dine out. I will tip 15% for bad food and bad service , but never return to the restaurant and spread the word whenever I can about poor service or poor food. (BTW: if you are ever in Omaha, NE avoid Johnnie’s Italian Cafe at the Village Point Mall at all costs)
For good food and good service, I will tip well above the average and spread the word about my dining experience (BTW: while you are avoiding Johnnie’s Italian Cafe at the Village Point Mall, cross the parking lot and try FIrebirds. Great food, great atmosphere and friendly waiters)
Weirddave, you did *not *say you would publicy embarass them. You said you would have a “man to weasel” talking. Up close and personal. Sure sounds like a fight to me.
Fighting at this age is really immature. Especially over something as a tip at a restaurant. And for you to threaten that at the next Dopefest you’d do something like this makes me want to make a note, " don’t ever go to dopefests when **WeirdDave **is invited".
I don’t know you from Adam, but that was a really rude and juvenile little comment and your further explanations don’t do it justice. You seem to have a huge tendency to fly off the handle.
Even if you are going to just throw a tantrum at the next Dopefest I’d never want to come. That little comment of yours has colored my - and many others’ - perception of you quite badly.
Steal: To take the property of another without permission or right.
This presumes you are taking something that is “the property of another.” Since the amount of the tip is not set, and indeed no tip at all is required, a tip that is not given is not the “property” of the server at any time. It therefore cannot be “stolen” under any definition of the term.
Further, it is not true in every jursidiction that a waiter is paid less than minimum wage. So may I assume your hissy-fit throwing varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction? Even in the majority of jursidictions where minimum wage for tipped employees is less because of the expectation of tips, the tax is set as only 8% of the imputed income – half what is widely acknowledged to be the minimum acceptable tip – because even the taxing authorities know not everybody tips. If anyone but you truly believed waiters owned – or even were strictly entitled to – 15% of the checks, then the tax would be set at 15%. A tax at 8% on tip income accurately reflects the reality that most people tip but some people do not.
The only thing that it doesn’t explain is why you’ve put yourself in the role of moral Enforcer where tipping is concerned.
Good question—although it’s a question over word usage, not over ethics. Or, if it’s a question of law, I’m guessing it would hinge on the (implied) contract made when you hired the guy.
Anybody know of any legal rulings over cases where somebody didn’t leave a tip?
Haven’t there been at least two cites in this thread stating that is not the case?
Yes, this cite seems to indicate that although the federal minimum cash wage is $2.13, at least 36 states pay a higher cash wage than that, and at least 8 states pay exactly the same minimum wage, cash or not.
Years ago, there was a sequence in Dennis Eichhorn’s “Real Stuff” comics about two waiters who hate their manager. Manager asks them to bring a bratwurst to him in his office. One waiter stuffs the bratwurst up his ass before serving it.
Now, I wonder how anyone could pull that off IRL. First of all, did the waiter cornhole himself with a cooked bratwurst? :eek: Or did he take a defrosted one (and he’d better hope it was fully defrosted, or he’d end up in another UL), jam it, remove it, and then give it to the cook? How could he do this publically without someone dropping a dime, or privately without anyone wondering why he’d been gone so long? For that matter, what of the illustration, of the guy bending over with the bratwurst sticking out while the other waiter looks on gobsmacked? Would someone really want a witness to an act that is basically humiliating himself?
And finally, if I was a guy who knew another guy who could insert a bratwurst in his rectum and remove it again, in a short enough time that the manager wouldn’t be saying “Hey, where’s my bratwurst?”, and without assistance…well, I just wouldn’t go on any camping trips with him.
He’s been kicking himself ever since that 2003 Dopefest, when he chose to make up the difference instead of harshing others’ mellow by saying, “Hey, guys, we need about another two bucks per person.” I don’t know if he’s been to another Dopefest since then, though. If not, then he’s probably been telling himself that if he ever gets another chance…! But if he has, then one would think he’d found some way of settling the bill to his and everyone else’s satisfaction. So I’m not sure why the lingering hostility.
Sampiro, can you go into more detail about drunk and obnoxious Corey Haim? Because he’s one of my favorite trainwrecks. Not so much what he did to aggravate you guys, but how he reacted when you 86’ed him.
Yeah, you’ve got charming and delightful written all over you. God knows what other behaviors might transgress your own personal moral and ethical standards – standards not held by most of the rest of society – and uncertainty as to when I might transgress, and what your bizarre reaction might be, would definitely make me forego your charming and delightful company.