Shit. Damn. Shit. Sorry, Keeve, thanx Sauron.
Skribbler, you’re still being an idiot, though. Dude, no one can take advantage of you without your permission. If the evil corporations are taking advantage of the poor deluded American people, it’s simply because they allow themselves to be taken. Get the fuck over it.
Skribbler, you are giving examples of stuff that any consumer with half a brain already knows to look out for and not be taken in by. Where have you been all this time?
No, I don’t…I get my clothes at the thrift store or make them myself.
No actually, it’s so people who are maxed out on their credit cards can scrape together $30 a month and still afford a $300 excercise machine. No one is dumb enough to think a piece of gym equipment (and yes, some of that stuff IS in gyms, such as the cross-country ski or elliptical trainers) is available for a one-time payment of $29! (or maybe you did, I’m starting to get that impression.)
I don’t believe this is the case, but I wouldn’t know since I have a garden and grow my own veggies. When I do buy them, they’re from the frozen food section which has no misleading packaging. (You can feel how much is in there right through the bag.) The only canned veggie I buy is beans, and I usually use dry and have the canned on hand for emergency.
Wrong again. Everyone KNOWS herbal crap is not approved by the FDA, and every magazine article and TV show featuring it says it’s dangerous to use with other medicines.
Nope, sure don’t. I get ants like once a year and have been using the same can of Raid for 10 years to dispense with them. That’s a pretty good deal, you know. How is Raid ripping me off with a product that lasts 10 years, gets the job done and costs less than $5?
First of all, Ibuprofen and Motrin are not the same thing. If you didn’t know that Ibuprofen was available OTC then you’re a moron. You don’t mention how many tabs you’re getting for $2, but I’m guessing you’re STILL paying too much. On sale a bottle of 200mg Ibuprofen with 500 tablets is around $7.
First of all, the movie was Twister. Second of all, did that actually confuse you? I mean that must have been a pretty complicated plot twist to leave out, “where’s my truck” and all. I mean, can you imagine how confusing that must have been for someone who didn’t see the trailer? “Gosh, all this movie needs to make sense is something about her missing her truck!” :rolleyes:
Ok, let me get this straight…you buy hamburger patties in a BOX?!!? Are you aware that in your meat case there are packages of ground meat telling you A) what animal it is from, B) what PART of the animal it is from, and C) the fat content of said meat. No questions about what’s in it or how much you’re going to lose (that’s LOSE, not LOOSE, moron) when you fry it.
You seem to like Sears (or at the very least are aware of it’s existance) so I’m going to guess you (and everyone over the age of 10) already know that anything in the Craftsman line is guaranteed for life and can be replaced with a new one at any time no questions asked, right? How are they screwing you? You claim “most people” don’t buy something of that quality; well, maybe they don’t NEED something of that quality! From the sound of it, you use tools a lot and are rather rough on them. What if I need to hang a picture? I’m going to guess the hammer I got at the dollar store is sufficient. If I have to opportunity to build my own house, I’ll invest in a good hammer.
What bar is this? Give me a name because it never happened. Give me the name of someone who is so stupid they didn’t know they were drinking something with no alcohol in it. For christ sakes, any bar with any reasonable amount of business goes through several bottles of booze a night, and you watch them open it and stick the jigger in right in front of you!
I could go on and on and nitpick everything you say to death, but why? No one else is agreeing with you and you’re dead set against listening to the rest of us. Bottom line: You are a crappy consumer. Maybe YOU’RE getting screwed, but that doesn’t mean the rest of us are as stupid as you are.
Gawd, I hate ot do it after that great post, vogue, but you said:
Not true for power tools and garden equipment. Only for handtools, and even then there are some exceptions.
And speaking of tools, back to the regularly scheduled Skribbler bashing.
D’oh! My apologies. :o
Damn, I’m glad this thread went to the pit, cause now I can ask.
Skribbler, are you on crack? Are you seriously that fucked up that you post dozens of rants about how prices are too high? Jesus Christ in a pickup, what the fuck is wrong with you?
You post list after list of bad deals. Well, FUCK, of course there are millions of bad deals out there. You have the nerve to complain that RONCO sells crappy stuff over the TV? Jesus Christ in a pickup, I bet there’s three people in the US who doesn’t know that crap is fucking crap.
Why in YHWH’s name does it get your underwear in a bunch that people try to sell you crap? Since you list all this stuff, it appears that you don’t buy the crap, you’re too smart. So why are you upset? Is it because you think other people are too stupid? Then your problem isn’t the greedy corporations, but rather the stupid consumers.
Fuck, go get a job writing for Consumer Reports or something, but Jesus Christ in a pickup, SHUT UP already! Or at least, READ THE OTHER POSTS and respond to them, or say something DIFFERENT from every other rant!
Wow. Ah, I feel so much better now. I never knew how refreshing it could be to finally have my say. I should do this more often. For instance, did you know that they raised the price of carrots at my local supermarket from $0.79 to $0.89? And the new carrots are shrivelled! It’s an outrage! And then when I…
Here’s one of those beauticians. What are you talking about?
Sauron:
Absolutely correct but the manufacturer knows that the hydrolyzed oil in it turns into cholesterol in the body. There is no law forcing disclosure of this.
Not exactly but in many areas it was, primarily in the area of smaller companies. My beef is that we are being lied to daily or things we should know simply not mentioned. What I’ve been giving you are examples of things that seem accepted, that, IMHO should not be.
andros:
When was the last time you examined the weight of a favorite can of vegetables? Noticed that a bag of favorite candy bars was 4 short? Had any allergic reactions to canned soup lately and not been able to find out why? Maybe you had to call the company and get a print out of the ‘assorted herbs and spices’ only to find out that there is an ingredient you are sensitive to in there. Had the ingredients listing been complete, you’d have known and not bought the soup.
You can be as aware as you want, but it seems to be quite acceptable for companies to spend millions on marketing ploys to obscure facts. My beef is that if a product is flawed, don’t sell it or correct the flaw. Detroit is infamous for finding dangerous flaws in cars at the last minute but selling them anyhow, hoping the death count will be within ‘acceptable’ ranges. We have laws to protect us from that, but it still seems to go on.
Just because deception has gone on for ages in business, doesn’t mean we need to put up with it again.
Hmm. Do something about it? I have. I’ve been pointing a finger at Walmart for a couple of years now concerning some ‘bait and switch’ tactics they use. I even walked in and made them sell me a kind of expensive item (unpriced) that they had stacked in an area listing them as quite a bit cheaper. Since they were heavy, most customers would not carry one to the distant scanner to have it checked. I had observed that the items had been stacked there for several days prior to my purchase. After making them sell it to me at the shelf price, they changed the price listing to the correct one.
I got this great wooden file cabinet for $20 that sells for $40. Brass lock on it also.
I got complacent, though and was in a hurry not too long ago. I bought a can of Bondo in the middle of fixing a leak in the hood vent of my car. The stack was marked at $4.95. When I got home, I found I’d paid $7.95. Later, when I went back, the same stuff was still marked $4.95. Without my receipt, they declined a refund. I bitched. The following day the price sticker went up to $7.95.
They sold a lot of that stuff before changing the price to unwary buyers. I mean, how many guys expect to find ‘error pricing’ in the auto section? Most are used to dealing with auto stores where the practice rarely goes on.
I bitched to the company and was ‘assured’ that no such thing goes on. Others I know mentioned the same problem but nothing has been done. Come the holiday season, the bait and switch will go into high gear.
So, the SDMB is a good place to discuss things like this. Many non-posters will read it and perhaps start looking for the cute traps.
The ‘short stuffing’ is new. We’re aware of it now. What’s next? As to raising prices openly, I’d rather have that than to sell me less product sneakily for the same price.
I mentioned DDT. You mentioned you grow your own veggies. Cool. DDT isn’t used in the US, but it is made here, shipped over seas, sprayed on vegetables there, which are imported back here and sold to us. There are no laws against that. Not a lot of people know this.
We’ve come a long way in keeping businesses from selling us ‘snake oil,’ developing product safety, liability, and quality, but corporations still find ways to lie to us to buy their products. While you people here might be above the norm in alert shopping, millions of others are just average folks who are too busy, too tired, too hurried or too uninformed to pay attention.
Yes, there are informational programs concerning the dangers of herbal preparations, however there are no laws requiring that the products be standardized. Just lately, some have begun putting warning indicators on the better brands telling people who take medications to watch for some potential effects. However, most of those ‘Viagra herbal clones’ don’t list warnings and don’t actually work.
Like the breast enlarging cream being sold, with a no refund policy. A couple makes and sells it from their home. They prey on small breasted women who see it as an alternative to surgery. It has not been FDA approved. It has not been proven to work. The couple is counting on making a bundle from women who will buy the product then decide they made a bad purchase and not do anything about it. By the time sales drop, they’ll be ready to abandon the stuff anyhow to move on to the next scam, or else they’ll have developed enough capitol to invest and ride on.
All legal.
We should not have to worry about what companies are trying to pull on us.
Capitalism is free enterprise. Is free enterprise to sell a product to the public by any means possible?
BTW Motrin is the brand name for Ibuprofen. Datril was the generic company name for Ibuprofen. Since I did not have a Physicians Desk Reference, I didn’t know this. Nor did anyone else I asked. I had never heard of Datril, but then, there are a few thousand drugs most of us have not heard of. BTW, the PDR breaks down drug listings by maker, generic name, chemical name, function and a pictorial index because so many come out. Do you know if any prescription drugs you take can be bought over the counter? It turned out that the generic ibuprofen I bought was cheaper than the Datril and the container held more than enough pills. My new pharmacy asks me if I want generic and points out over the counter substitutes if they have them.
The business mentality is a curious one. I’ve known business people who own, say, an ice cream store and when the mother of their son’s wife came in to chat, suggested a cone and charged her full price for it, then pleasantly chatted about the couple. They did that to other friends who drifted in now and then. Nothing was given away, profit was everything.
lawnmower engines: Two mechanics of many years experience and who go to school for updates, informed me of this. I think they know their business, especially since one works for the county fixing not only their cars and trucks, but their lawnmowers.
Again, why do we have to be on guard all of the time and why is this practice so accepted?
Around 1983, I had a girl friend who was learning to become a hairdresser. About that time, a program came on pointing out several jobs with hidden dangers and one of them was the beauticians/hairdresser jobs. It was pointed out that the chemicals they use are toxic but that the average woman who gets her hair done now and then will have no problem. However, the beautician who has to work with the materials every day face the risk of shortening their lives because of accumulated toxins.
My girlfriend quit. So did several others.
Today I went into my local WaWa (like a 7-11 or Circle K) for my daily cup o’ Joe and found that the price for the 20 oz. actually went DOWN, from .99 to .89. Everything else remained the same.
[facetious questions]
So how do we explain this?
Attack of conscience by the corporation?
Accident by the clerk?
Vast right-wing conspiracy?
[/facetious questions]
Also, one personal peeve re: your discussion on the price of CDs.
In our (USA) kind of economic system, for items with non-regulated prices (pretty much everything except utilities and a few others), the actual COST of an item has almost NO RELATION to the PRICE charged for it.
Price is based on WHAT THE MARKET WILL BEAR. The cost is essentially only relevant to the make/don’t make decision of the manufacturer given what the market will bear (and a few other things like ROI and opportunity cost, blah, blah, blah, not an economist,).
If people are willing to buy CDs for $14 (count me in) and people can make them for less than that and are willing to do so, WHAT’S THE PROBLEM?
Umm, actually Ibuprofen and Motrin are the exact same thing. The difference is that prescription Motrin comes in 400mg, 600mg, and 800mg strengths. OTC, ibuprofen comes in 200mg pills. Prescription Motrin costs a helluva lot more than the OTC stuff.
Uh, look closely. You just paraphrased the paragraph that you were attempting to argue with.
Do you realize how you’re coming across? Regardless of the dubious validity of your posts (Motrin is Ibuprofen, whether or not you choose to believe it. That’s why the actual name of the product is Motrin IB (IB=Ibuprofen)), you seem to think you’re telling us something we don’t already know. Why do you assume that you’re the only one who knows this stuff? We’ve seen response after response saying “Yeah, I knew that. Who cares?” and you still persist in the condescending “I’m the only one who sees the TRUTH*! Why won’t you fools listen to me!” attitude.
Responding to a few of your (paraphrased) points:
A) I am an intelligent/informed shopper. It’s no big revelation to me and I don’t need your help to determine that: I shouldn’t pay more for a 14oz box of Cap’n Crunch in a big box than I should in a little box.
B) Regarding your tomatoes packed with more juice than tomatoes comment. Ever look on the back of a can? There’s a measurement called something like “Percent weight of water”. Big numbers in this field means less tomatoes. Your post was not a revelation.
C) Starbuck’s coffee is mediocre. Well, duh. They charge a lot for it. Well, duh. QED: some people like the coffee enough to pay $$$ for it. Or they’re ignorant corporate dupes that ONLY YOU CAN SAVE!
D) “And other spices” in soup. It’s called “trade secrets” and it’s connected with intellectual property and is a good thing. If you’re so sensitive to, say, tarragon that the merest whiff will make you drop dead, you problably should prepare your own foods (I’ve got a relative who’s fairly allergic to mustard. Doesn’t buy prepared foods). Manufaturers have no obligation to cater to the hyper-sensitive.
D) Who cares? Judging from Nader’s plummeting poll ratings, not many people. Is it because:
#1) Everyone who doesn’t share your POV is stupid? (This sounds like your conclusion, judging from the shrill, smarmy tone of your posts)
or #2) You sound like an indignant 6 year old who’s wailing "But it’s not FAAAAIIIIIR, and are mixing that wail with a condescending lecture. Take a deep breath and realize: most of us know this stuff. We just have better things to be concerned about than counting to see whether the box of (Chips Ahoy) cookies that promise 300 chocolate chips per box, have in fact, only 299.
Fenris
Fenris, you raise an interesting point, and while I’m not sure it’ll matter to Skribbler, it does have a bearing on this discussion.
A couple of years ago, Chips Ahoy (packaged chocolate chip cookies) was using a slogan such as “A thousand chips in every bag!” or something similar that indicated a certain number of chips were in their product. A grade-school class that was studying truth in advertising counted all the chocolate chips that were visible on the cookies, and came up around 100 short. This made the local news, in a cutesy sort of way. Somebody like Skribbler would probably see this report, and say “See, I TOLD you! They’re screwing us!”
But the Chips Ahoy people weren’t gonna take this lying down. They flew a couple of reps out to meet with that class, and explained their manufacturing procedure. They also went to the store, bought a few bags of Chips Ahoy, and then soaked the cookies in water overnight (or some similar test). The next day, they counted all the chips and chip fragments that were left over. Guess what? The total chip weight by volume exceeded 1,000. Some chips get broken up in the manufacturing process, and the class wasn’t counting those. When you added in all the chip fragments and combined them, there were indeed more than 1,000 chips in the bag.
I thought at the time, and I still do, that the Chips Ahoy folks made a brilliant PR stroke when they sent those reps to the classroom. I don’t eat Chips Ahoy cookies, but I was impressed with the company that made them.
Yeah, that was the incident that I was trying to remember. What made me think of it was Skribbler commenting about how a bag of candy was 4 short. Who in their right minds counts the candy in one of those 100 count mini-candy bar bags? Life is too short.
Fenris
Skribbler, in most cases, people can’t be screwed over unless they are willing to be.
It is your responsibility to read labels and make informed decisions. If you are deathly allergic to something, and a label lists “assorted ingredients,” it is your responsibility to make sure that there is nothing in there that will harm you.
If a woman sees an ad for breast-enlarging cream, it is her responsibility to act as an informed consumer and do a little research to see if the benefits claimed are guaranteed. If there is a no-refund policy and the woman isn’t happy with that, then she shouldn’t buy it in the first place.
If you take a prescription to the drugstore, why don’t you check with the pharmacist to see if it’s available OTC instead of waiting for someone to hand the answer to you? Personally, I’d rather buy the prescription version, because my insurance will pay for it whereas OTC medications aren’t covered. Obviously this doesn’t work for everyone - so ask the pharmacist. If you don’t like the service you’re getting, change drugstores.
About that can of Bondo that you bought: which is more logical? That Wal-Mart, just in order to avoid having to pay you $3.00 in the event that you found your receipt and made another trip back, removed all the old stickers and affixed all new ones with a higher price; or that the stickers were wrong in the first place? If the stickers were wrong, then I think they should sell the item at the lower price, but it’s your responsibility to retain the receipt. You might be an honest person but there are many dishonest ones who steal things and then try to return them. Is Wal-Mart supposed to trust every person who makes such a claim? All they’re asking is that people who want a refund provide proof that they actually bought the item. Not so unreasonable, in my opinion.
If it is important enough to you to want to know if your box of macaroni is an ounce lighter, then make it a point to read the box and keep records. If you are unhappy with a companies’ pricing practices, don’t buy their products and write them a letter telling them why. There are plenty of other companies out there that will be glad to have your business.
Companies aren’t being deceptive when they maintain the price but lower the amount of the contents: the weight is printed right there on the box. If there are suddenly less candy bars in the bag, the lower weight is printed right there. If there are less peas in the can, it says so right on the label - you just have to open your eyes and read it.
I don’t think you get the point. Maybe I’m rambling or maybe I just don’t know how to get my opinion across.
Far too many businesses quietly find ways to cheat us. Once they see how we protect ourselves, they find ways around them.
Deliberately placing unmarked items of higher price in low priced slots is not justified by loosing millions to shop lifters.
The candy bar thing is not similar to the Chips Ahoy. The difference in weight was marked on the bag, but everything else was kept the same. The consumer protection program I watched considered this action a form of deception, with the makers depending on the average person not noticing the change from the old bag.
Being a ‘wise and alert’ shopper in this nation should be for getting bargains and not having to be alert for getting screwed. Walmart is accumulating a history of questionable business practices ranging from wiping out the competition through low prices and then jacking them up once it is gone to price switching. It’s not the only such business to do this.
It was mentioned that everyone knows RONCO makes cheap stuff. Well, he’s still making millions off of those who don’t realize it and buy his products. Breast Cream? Obviously not every woman is as smart as the ones here because the stuff sells.
Canned veg. The tomato thing is not what I said. Several brands now reduce the amount of actual food in a can and increase the amount of water to make up the weight difference.
Paper towels often reduce the number of sheets per roll but charge the same price as before, depending on people not noticing. There are so many types, that they depend on some people not recalling the sheet count from one day to the next, or even looking at the count on their favorite brand.
Most of you justify this. Others say you’re nuts not to be on guard all of the time. More just accept it as a way of business doing business, and a few agree readily with it. My point is that we should not have to constantly watch out for being screwed when going to the store. Not in this day and age.
Now I know why they keep getting away with it.
Give up, kiddies. Skrotum, or whatever his/her name is, isn’t going to change. This is one instance where we can’t fight ignorance.
But what the hell, I’ve got some time on my hands:
Scrotum, it’s called free enterprise. It’s called caveat emptor. It’s called real life. Example: I went to the grocery store last night with my 5 1/2 year-old daughter. She wanted Fruit Loops. I showed her the difference in price between those and the Kroger Froot Loops (or whatever they’re called), and said, “The difference in price between this and that is about the same as the leg of a Barbie. Now, if Dad buys the Kroger, that’s a little more money we have to spend on a Barbie or a book or a toy or whatever. Now, which one do you want?” “I’ll take the Kroger and a Barbie, Dad.”
Example: I needed a CD burner for band purposes. I was near broke. I bought the cheap, slow one. Now, I knew that it would take me more time to burn a CD, but I’ve got time to burn. I don’t have money to burn. Do you expect to get a 4X or 6X burner for the cost of a 12X burner? I didn’t.
Grow up and get in the real world. I’m an idealist myself, but I’m also a realist. Spend your energy on something you can change. Hell, go build a house with Habitat or something.
Trust me. We get your point. You’ve been repeating it over and over. What you aren’t getting is that we already know this stuff and DON’T CARE!.
**
Please, rather than continually spewing this endlessly dull stream of factoids, (where exactly are you getting them from anyway? The Idiot’s Guide to Supermarket Shopping?), try reading the responses.
Like I said before: there is, on the back of every can of veggies that I’ve ever seen, a line that says something like “% weight of water”. THAT NUMBER TELLS YOU HOW MUCH WATER is in the can. It’s not a mystery to anyone who can read.
Once more, you condesending twit, THEY’RE NOT GETTING AWAY WITH ANYTHING. Informed shoppers are AWARE of the endless stream of gibberish factoids you spew. We just don’t find ourselves fascinated with it. I don’t need or want you to “rescue” me.
Fenris
Caveat emptor.
Caveat emptor.
Caveat emptor.
Skribbler, the best argument I can make against your complaints (or perhaps for them, I guess) is the free market system itself.
The system will allow almost anybody with something to sell the ability to sell it. The system will eventually drive folks out of business who continually shaft their customers. If a company is decreasing product without decreasing price, it gets noticed, believe me. Publications like Consumer Reports, Consumers Digest and others report on these issues. No, not every consumer in America is aware of what’s going on. But enough are that a serious dent will be made in the company’s income and image. Many large corporations, in fact, do not use the very tactics you’re denigrating, because they know that in the long run the negative publicity and such will hurt more than the short-term profit boost they get.
Yes, there is a cream on the market that purports to increase breast size. If it does what it claims, sales will skyrocket. If it doesn’t, it will quietly die. This happens daily in a free market.
Yes, some companies decrease the amount of product they give you without telling you, or lowering the price. They do this because it’s preferable to raising the price for the same amount, at least in their perception.
My advice, again, is to identify the specific products for which you have a complaint, to raise awareness about these horrible moneygrubbing companies who would shaft their customers. Otherwise, you’re just pissing in the wind.
What, you answer everyones question, but not mine? How rude of you, Skriblin. So how 'bout it?