Where the hell does the officer EXPECT you to get your license and registration from exactly? “Can I see your drivers license?” “HES GOING INTO HIS POCKET!!1” BLAM BLAM.
And your plan may not work, recall the man told to go back to his truck to get his drivers license got shot when he did the exact thing the cop told him to.
“Yes” is the closest answer I could come up with. I absolutely have argued with police, but I technically followed their instructions. “Quickly”? I dunno, I guess so.
As I’m a white man and respectable-looking, I don’t have much to fear; the police won’t pull a gun on me for not showing my hands or doing something like reaching for my registration n the wrong way.
I have no reason to believe that world is ruder because negative interactions show up on every website around the world. I have no reason to believe that my polite cooperation is more important in police interaction than my middle-aged white ladyness.
As every analysis I’ve seen has said, demanding that a cigarrette be put out or that a driver exit a car is not a lawful order. Pointing a taser at the face of a seated, unarmed driver is so far out of regs as to be fireable immediately.
And any cop who escalates a traffic stop to screaming, putting on the ground, and cuffing over a little attitude needs firing, professional help and to leave town.
The request to put out the cigarette was not a lawful order, however the order to leave the vehicle was a lawful order in the state of Texas. If you find a lawyer saying otherwise best not to hire them.
Just having dealt with Southern Ontario cops ( different juridictions and the OPP), for a variety of different things, I say that it depends on the day of the week.
We are kinda programed, if you want to call it that, when you see the disco lights. Automatically, the license, and ownership/insurance proof are already in hand, I have them outside the window in my hand, and the cop simply picks them up and proceeds back to the cruiser while I have a smoke and await the verdict.
For the most part, unless you cannot produce said items, the next thing you are going to hear is your choice of how to pay the ticket and yada yada.
The last interaction that I had, was with the OPP about two weeks ago, coming home from work at about 11:30-12 midnight and coming down a rural road and you can plainly see the cherries off to the side , and thinking accident. But no, on a monday night, on a rurual road, they are doing a ride check.
Im expecting this on Christmas, and perhaps some of the long weekends , and clearly answered the cops questions, but made no bones about in the tone of my voice, that she was wasting my time. I would not unduly antagonize a cop, but they had better have a damm good reason for me to extinguish a smoke, and not simply because its a showing who has the authority thing. ( Regardless of their personal opinions of smoking, most cops would rather the smoke be lit, so its easier to ascertain tobbacco or weed)
But no, its odd for a cop up here to escalate a traffic stop, and usually they are going to have more than one cruiser and a tow truck in the area if they do that.
Declan
I live in a “Must Notify” state, and as such traffic stops can be formulaic My CHP is cross indexed with my driver’s license number:
On being pulled over, I roll down my window,turn my dome light on and keep my hands in plain sight. When the officer comes to my door, my first line is “Good evening officer. I have a concealed handgun permit, and I am carrying my weapon behind my right hip. My driver’s license and handgun permit are in my wallet, and that is in my left front pocket. How would you like to proceed?”
By beginning this dialog in a polite manor, and working with the officer to resolve the issue at hand, traffic stops have always ended with a warning rather than a ticket.
I would comply with almost any order given whether I thought it was lawful or not. If I want to get confrontational with police officers the most foreseeable outcome is that I end up having a worse day than the cops. Pick and choose your battles.
Yes, but that is as much for self-preservation as it is because I have respect for authority.
That doesn’t excuse the officer who pulled over a driver for “failure to signal a lane change” which is a bullshit charge, then demanded she put out her cigarette. He was a belligerent asshole who intentionally escalated tensions and he shouldn’t be allowed to carry a gun, let alone have authority over anyone, including a pet. Some people can’t handle power.
“Would you mind putting out your cigarette, please” is a demand?
Regards,
Shodan
Stopped in my car? Yes. Too many ways cops can fuck with you legally while you’re driving.
Walking down the street in broad daylight? Fuck no. In those circumstances they had better cross every T and dot every I to perfection, and even then I will walk away the second I feel like it. “Am I being detained? Am I under arrest?” will be coming out of my mouth every other sentence.
Phrased like that, its a request.
Obviously the cop would be cool if I chose to say no.
Declan
I’ve never gotten nasty with an officer, I always try to remain calm, polite and compliant. This isn’t a matter of respect, exactly, for authority… just pragmatism.
My philosophy is to always question authority. This rarely means literally question everything I’m being asked to do, but to internally remain skeptical of their motives and intentions if asked to do things that don’t have any obvious or logical reason behind them. If I begin to feel unfairly treated, it’ll be hard to completely swallow any indignant feelings and not stand my ground using reason/rational discourse.
I have very little respect for authority. I’m ok with most cops, and if they’re professional with me, I’ll play nice. Hell, even if they’re rude, I’ll try to do what the ask. If they want to search my car or house, however, I’ll need to see a warrant (exceptions may apply)
Depends on the stop, where I’m going, and do I want to take the time to make an issue out of everything. Make it a dumb stop when I’m basically out for a recreational ride and I could just maybe take an issue with anything you ask. And unfortunately I know way too many lawyers who would back my play – so this has been played out twice in real life.
Yes, in the tone it was delivered, by a person in authority wielding a gun, it was clearly not a “request.” And especially “yes” because the second she refused, he ordered her to step out of her car, and then proceeded to go apeshit on her when she refused to do that. He is a white man with a gun who was clearly on a power trip, and he needs to be relieved of his position. And there should be an investigation to determine if there is ANY evidence that he routinely pulled over blacks more often than whites for bullshit things like “failure to signal a lane change.”
I actually think this is unwise. I think you should either decide to put the cigarette out, or decide not to put the cigarette out. But there is actually little value in asking why a cop is asking you to do something. You actually shouldn’t care about his motivations. Instead, if you think it’s something you don’t mind doing or you know he’s allowed to tell you to do it, you should put it out. If you are being asked to do something you do not have to do, then just decline, and see where he goes from there. Many times if the “request” was really just something he’d like you to do, but can’t force you to do, just declining will shut down that whole line of inquiry.
You can watch a lot of videos of people “refusing” police “requests”, and often times the police just move on to another thing. Sometimes they don’t. But either way getting into a debate on the road side about “why” just isn’t helpful in my opinion, regardless of the officer’s motivations or yours.
As for me, I’m always polite to police. However, I won’t necessarily do anything they say.
But I have never “gotten in an argument” with a police officer. I’ve either been polite and compliant, or polite and declined to do what they ask, but I don’t argue, don’t raise my voice, don’t resist or struggle.
Case in point, it’s 1980, Louisiana. Was driving from New Orleans to a friend’s farmhouse well outside the city. We had been partying in a bar, I was three sheets to the wind. My friend (whose car I was driving) was far drunker. It being 1980, me being young and stupid, it seems logical that the guy who was “least drunk” should be the one to drive.
I get in a wreck, relatively minor, single car accident that disables the car. As we’re trying to figure a way to get back on the road, a cop shows up. Probably at first just being helpful, but since we smelled like a distillery he quickly realized one of us was driving drunk.
Back home where I was from, in that era, drunks were typically allowed to “park their car” and either walk home or sometimes the cop would drive them home. This was the pre-MADD and afternoon special days. But, being from out of State and such I was expecting I was in a bit of trouble in Louisiana. The cop asks us where we’re going, how we ended up wrecked etc. I have no problem answering those questions. Finally he asks who was driving, I admit to that too. The reality is I didn’t have to answer that, and I actually knew that, but I didn’t want to throw my friend under the bus just to protect myself and I figured since it was his car by default there could be an argument made that he was driving if neither of us spoke up. After that, the cop asks me to do a field sobriety test–I declined. He starts to get frustrated, and tells me I can’t decline. I just tell him that unfortunately despite that, I still decline. He then tells me to take a breathalyzer, I decline that. He insists a few times, I continue to be polite, but tell him that I won’t be taking any tests here on the side of the road. He places me under arrest.
At the police station, he’s mostly polite/professional, I’m polite the entire time. He continues to try to get me to submit to breath tests or a blood draw and I refuse, he tells me that things will go much better for me if I submit to these tests, as I’m going to get convicted of drunk driving either way. I spend the weekend in jail, get an attorney from the city on Monday after posting bail. Long story short, all charges dropped. They had no really easy-to-act on evidence that I was driving while intoxicated. Other than a cop who would be willing to testify that I “looked and sounded” drunk. Faced with a hired attorney the prosecutor decided to pass. Of course these days many States have criminalized what I did–not the driving drunk, but the refusing to incriminate myself. So someone doing what I did in 2015 may still avoid a DWI conviction, but will get convicted of refusing the test, which carries the same (or sometimes stiffer) penalties, and often results in a longer license suspension period, too.
Point being from this long story–it’s not always smart to do whatever a cop asks. But in terms of arguing with cops, questioning their actions, physically resisting–I can’t see any scenario where those make sense. Let’s assume you’re a black man, pulled over for “driving while black.” The cop is a racist and intent on arresting you. I can see an argument for politely declining to answer questions and etc, but what exactly is the argument for resisting arrest? Giving him an excuse to shoot you? What is the argument with engaging in a debate with him, when the more you talk to police unnecessarily the greater chance you say something that can be used against you? Institutional racism or not, black or white, the police hold the cards in these situations. I’m not sure what acting like they don’t hold said cards gets you, other than a lot more trouble than being compliant.
I think even a racist prick cop is more likely to be a lot worse when confronted with a black guy that’s fighting him versus one that is being polite. Not being black, I think in that situation my primary goal would be to “get off the street and away from this encounter.” That may mean a ticket, or it may mean you’re arrested. But prolonging a situation where you’re “on the street” with a cop, where essentially anything can happen and there’s a chance it’ll just be his word against yours or maybe even just his word (if you’re killed), is not ideal. If the arrest was improper, and you’ve not said or done anything incriminating (which you shouldn’t as part of your not unnecessarily talking to police plan), you have a lot greater chance of getting it fixed after you’ve been bonded out or called an attorney from jail than you ever do on the side of the road.
I’m white, dress appropriately, good manners, well spoken, squeaky clean record.
So cops are always very nice to me, they just always say “I’m going to write you a warning” or “just try to go slower next time sir” always followed by the “have a nice day”
It’s good being me.
It’s also good for you that the fine Officer Encinia isn’t in charge of policing your grammar, or you’d be lit up in no time.
I’d vote yes, but was stopped by police and found that full cooperation is no guarantee of a pleasant outcome. I was arrested on alleged DUI charges although I had nothing in my system as proven later by a blood test. The police claimed that I “failed” field sobriety tests and they questioned me roadside for nearly a half-hour, trying to trip me up with my answers, yelling “bullshit” in my ear. They claimed that I “swerved in my lane”, but I was pulling off to the side to yield to police lights in the background. I later spoke to an attorney who said you shouldn’t do the field sobriety tests, only give them your identification and ask “am I free to go or are you arresting me?” Otherwise, remain silent.