I’ve dealt enough with lawyers, reporters, and just plain crazy people looking to get me to say something that can be twisted. I hate that. So yeah, I’m compliant with The Blue Man. In my experience, cops aren’t talking to me because I’m the 100th face they looked at that day–they’ve got a reason and some kind of evidence. I’m not a lawyer or a judge, so I don’t care about their evidence nearly as much as I am reluctant to create some that can be used against me.
While most States now have implied consent, I don’t believe all do, yet. It definitely is a newer thing, like I said, in 1980 I was allowed to refuse tests and it was basically to my benefit as it made it difficult to convict me of DWI (a crime of which I was certainly guilty.)
But every State I’m familiar with, implied consent applies to station breathalyzers, these machines are rated with a much lower margin of error than the portable field units and are usable as evidence. The field units to my knowledge, generally are not. Instead they can serve as a tool only to establish probable cause. So you generally can refuse the roadside tests with no consequences, but in implied consent states the more advanced machine at the station is required or you can face legal penalties often equivalent to DWI itself.
But he has to arrest me first. I am not required to take a field sobriety test, or submit to a field breath test prior to arrest. It is up to the cop to decide if he has enough evidence to arrest me without the field sobriety or breath tests. Once I am under arrest, you are correct, I cannot refuse the breathalyzer test without consequences.
I agree. I would respond very differently in a vehicle (more compliant) than I would on foot (more questioning).
With that said, I respect the brave folks who are willing to stand up to unreasonable demands from cops made in any context. Just because I’m not always brave enough to stick up for my rights, doesn’t mean someone else shouldn’t.
In theory, that is true. In reality, politely declining a request could lead to further unpleasantness, such as him then demanding that you get out of the car. The fact that most people are intimidated by an armed officer is what cops bank on when they “request” something that is not legally required.
In my state they will have a judge and nurse on standby for road inquisitions. Refuse and they will subpoena your blood right there in the street.
I would think that would make a fair number of people stabby. Don’t know. The locals usually show up with signs so people can turn off early and avoid them.
I am required by law to get out of the car when requested/ordered.
If mandatory blood samples are legal in that jurisdiction, it only applies after arrest, except in Montana.
I know. My point is that if you deny the request that is NOT required by law, such as putting our your cigarette, you set yourself up to be ordered to do something that IS required by law., such as being ordered out of your car, being patted down, and then being issued an expensive ticket that might have resulted in a mere warning had you submitted to the non-mandatory request.
So you’re in a catch-22.
I voted, “Yes, always”.
I was raised by a police officer father, so I had the benefit of his advice regarding how to deal with the police. Including his advice, “Admit nothing, deny everything, and make 'em prove it.”
I’m so good at dealing with the police that, the one time I was arrested (DUI in 1992), the arresting officer didn’t even bother to handcuff me, telling me, “I don’t think you’re going to cause any trouble”. Yeah, I was drunk, but I still had the presence of mind to be cooperative and polite. In another drunken incident from my youth, I managed to not get shot by the police (six of them pointing their guns at me) by being cooperative, polite, and non-threatening (and that incident didn’t even result in my being arrested).
Yes, always.
But then I’ve never Driven While Black. I’ve only rarely even been pulled over by cops in my life, and I had my car towed once (failure to pay insurance). I cried - I couldn’t help it - but I sure as hell didn’t argue with the cop.
I, however, had always had my license and registration out when the cop comes up. I know, you’re supposed to wait for him to ask you, but I have never seen a cop complain about me handing it to him as soon as he got to my window. On the contrary, they’re kind of happy they don’t have to ask.
People who voted “yes, always” have never dealt with an unreasonable police officer. Of course, always be polite to any officer, but don’t agree to every request after it becomes apparent they wish to arrest you. I didn’t have to stand there for nearly a half hour politely responding to every question pre-arrest with “bullshit” yelled at me, and it didn’t serve any purpose other than for the officer to try to establish probable cause (where there wasn’t any because I was innocent of the DUI). I didn’t have to do the roadside sobriety tests which served no other purpose than for the officer to try to establish probable cause.
If I had to do it over, I’d still be polite and refrain from any argumentation, like I did, but I wouldn’t comply with every request. The outcome wouldn’t have been any worse than what it was, which was being arrested and detained in jail for 48 hours on probable cause for a DUI arrest that never went to trial since my innocence was proven by the blood test. I suppose the officer could have beaten me with his baton or tasered me if I didn’t answer every question and do every roadside test, but then he would have had to face me in court for my own lawsuit.
I took traffic school once, to not get a point on my license, after I got pulled over and ticketed once. The instructor suggested when you shut off the car put the keys on the dash in plain sight, leave your hands on the wheel and when the cop asks for license and registration to ask them to get it.
Something like:
“My registration is in my glove box can I get it.”
and wait for the cop to say yes and then get the registration.
I haven’t been pulled over since so I haven’t tried it.
Under Article 4 of the Articles of Confederation, I don’t have to do anything the cop says because I am a free inhabitant.
Rewind it to the beginning.
Every time I’ve been stopped, I just did what the cop said. Seemed easier that way.
The very first time I was pulled over, in May 1985, the first words out of the officer’s mouth were, “All right, how much have you been drinking?” At the time, I was 19 years old and still living with my parents, and the only drinking I’d ever done in my life occurred during my one semester in college the previous year, so I was annoyed by the question. Still, I remained polite and cooperative while this officer spent 15 minutes insisting that somebody had been drinking, and that he could smell alcohol (which was odd, because I was inside the car with three passengers and hadn’t smelled anything), and arguing with our denials.
All the while, he failed to mention why he had pulled me over (though I knew why), and he never asked me to step out of the car despite his stated belief that I had been drinking.
In hindsight, I can see what was going on. The stop occurred during the final weekend of my town’s annual festival, and the festival is known for a lot of drinking. All I was guilty of was a bit of minor speeding (I had passed a car on the highway and took a bit too long to slow back down; I eventually ended up with a ticket for doing 66 in a 55 zone), but I suspect this state trooper was just looking to nab somebody for DUI or other alcohol-related offenses, and was going to badger us until somebody fessed up. My friend finally got tired of it and “admitted” that he had had a drink earlier (he really shouldn’t have done that), and ended up being cited for Minor Consumption and released on his own recognizance.
As my dad also worked for the state patrol, I asked him the next day what he thought of this particular trooper, and he admitted that the guy was something of an ass. I didn’t fight the speeding ticket, though. I was “guilty” and knew it, so I just paid the fine.
But I wasn’t guilty, and I spent 48 hours in jail on “probable cause” which mainly consisted of “you’re a long-hair hippy with bloodshot eyes, therefore we’re reasonably sure you’re doing drugs” (never mind my clean record with no prior arrests). No amount of cooperation changed their minds, no amount of answering every question changed their minds, field sobriety tests didn’t change their minds, nothing I did in the way of cooperation was going to change the fact that they were going to throw me in jail on drug charges that night. They said I drove at least 5 miles with my car headlights off, and when I later measured the distance on a map, it was clearly less than a mile.
Your friend admitted his guilt and was released on his own recognizance. You got a speeding ticket from a cop trying to reach his quota, but you didn’t have to spread your butt cheeks in a jail lineup or be transferred in a chain-gang to a medium security prison. I don’t really think your scenario is comparable.
I’m not saying that is a bad think to do but it’s a little overboard to me. In my opinion there is no need to turn the car off or remove the keys. Just put it in park and take your foot off the brake. You don’t need to ask permission to get your credentials as long as you are not making quick lunging movements to grab something.
I am sorry to hear your story. You’re right in that I never had to deal with a truly unreasonable cop. I’m lucky that way; I’ve hardly had to deal with cops at all. I once got taken down to the station for dumping* and even then the cop was very reasonable and gave me a warning and a fine.
I’m not sure how I’ve been so lucky. As I said, I have only been pulled over less than half a dozen times in my life:
- once when I was speeding, 20 miles above the limit. I was 17 and had gotten my license two months earlier. The cop gave me a “failure to wear a seatbelt ticket”
- once when I was pulled over for failure to pay insurance. He towed the car
- once when I didn’t come to a complete stop at a stop sign. There was four of us friends in the car. He didn’t give me a ticket, I can’t remember why
- once when I ran a red light. I got a stiff warning
This is in 20 years of driving. Having a perfectly clean record helps, being respectful and polite helps, but also getting a decent cop helps!
*My parents were too cheap to pay for garbage pickup. No, seriously. So they would tell me to dump the garbage in some woods nearby. I didn’t like to do it, but I did it. Cop went through the garbage and found enough information to lead him right to our door. He took me to the station. I think my parents started paying for garbage pickup after then, but boy howdy, what a stupid thing to do. :rolleyes:
You should say as little as possible to a cop. Respond to every question, but don’t necessarily answer it, and be as vague as possible, while playing cooperative. Anything you say or do can be used as “probable cause” to escalate the situation, so don’t give them anything to work with.