“the Northern California Federation Youth Football League (NCFYFL) instituted stiff new penalties for any teams that beat opponents by 35 points or more. Specifically, those teams will be fined $200 and their coaches will be suspended from all league activities for two weeks. The penalty is a drastic change for the league of 7-13 year-olds, which previously issued teams with a warning following such blowouts and required a written description that detailed what the victorious team had done to try and keep scores low."
I can see where they are coming from, but I think there are other ways to curtail running up the score that will not result in fines and good players being benched or not allowed to play their position. In our youth football league once a team has a 35 point lead, they are declared the winner, the scoreboard is blanked, and the teams continue to play until time runs out - the clock is allowed to run unstopped. This seems more fair than penalizing good teams and players.
What do you all think – is this a fair rule to enforce this way, or is this furthering the “wussification” of America (in the parlance of a local radio DJ)?
I don’t know about the fine. Your league seems to have a better solution as long as the stats after the the winner is decided aren’t kept and don’t count. A decent coach will use the situation as a practice where they can work on their weaker elements and give the bench-warmers game time. It ain’t rocket surgery but some coaches are so stupid and clueless that they can’t see that.
Preventing blowouts in youth sports is not “wussification”. Especially in football it can be a dangerous situation. Kids that can’t compete on the level of their opponent can get easily hurt in a sport where strengh, speed and size are so important. How does getting hurt help anybody? Also, the injury can happen when the player on the better team isn’t even trying to injure anybody.
My son played very competitive ice hockey. At one tournament they entered they were the superior mismatch to the other teams. The coach was a tough guy but a really good guy and great coach. There was no “wussy” in anyone on that team. My son’s team was up 15-0 without even trying hard. In the third period with the clock running the coach had the team playing keep-away in their own end while shorthanded. Run clock, run. Lo and behold in the very last second of the game an opposing player took a shot and it went in, legitimately. Final score 15-1. Everybody, and I mean everybody, thought that was great. Laugh. Shake hands. Move on. The goalie didn’t get his shutout but BFD. I’m sure he got a lot of ribbing in the locker room. It was a great ending to a lopsided tournament but left a story for everyone.
Yes, sports are about winning and that’s what any individual or team should strive for. However, lopsided games in youth sports aren’t good for anyone. The good team doesn’t learn anything and the losing players may have their love of practice and playing destroyed. What good is that?
So, now there are sanctions for accurately assessing talent. What a sad lack of critical thinking there is now in the world. If I performed horribly at something, I would want to know. In football, there is no better measure for that than an 88-0 score. Fuck you humanity.
Believe me, if you get scored on enough to be down by more than 35 points, you sure as hell know it. No further evidence is needed of the talent differential.
I don’t know how they set up teams in that league, but if it isn’t some sort of random assignment or geographical assignment, then the ‘talent assessment’ is most likely successful teams attracting the best kids year after year.
That is an incredibly stupid rule. It’s not unreasonable that they want to avoid blowout games, but passing the buck with the threat of punishment if the teams don’t find your solution for you is the coward’s way of “fixing” the problem.
I also have the unpopular opinion that this is a stupid policy. At this age, kids need to learn life is all about competition, some you will win, many more you will lose.
They’re not hiding the fact that there are winners and losers, they’re trying to prevent fucktard coaches from running up the score in Pop Warner football. There is nothing to gain from that for either side. 35 points is still a blowout, and the losing still knows they got stomped. You keep going at that age level and you’re just being an asshole.
If I’m coaching the team that’s winning 35-0 and I put in my second-third stringers and one of them on defense recovers a fumble and runs it in for a touchdown, it might well be the highlight his “career” should the team be penalized for this?
Worse if I’m up 35-0 and my second string defensive end tackles the opposing QB in the end zone for a safety, the team should be punished?
How about I hate the other coach who’s winning 35-0, can I take a “deliberate” safety and get him fined and suspended?
What exactly is the coach to do once he’s subbed for everyone, tell them not to try?
I really hope for your sake this is a whoosh. A young kid learns as much from a 35 point spanking as from an 88 point embarrassment that is the product of some psycho coach who probably is making up for the fact that he got stomped by 90 points as a kid. Teams constructed by age are not equal. Mismatches do occur. Nobody learns anything from a mismatch. After the game is suspended and turned into a scrimmage there is actually a possibility that the kids could have some fun, work on skills and get something out of it.
Tell that to the 65 pound kid who has to tackle the 125 pound fullback. Do you want your 8 year old to get his eggs scrambled in a mismatch? “Man up kid, don’t tell me you can’t do your homework because of the vomiting and all the lights flashing in your head. Don’t worry about those ribs, they will heal eventually.”
Really, where does the whooshing stop and the cluelessness of some people begin? I guess I got smoked by too many guys twice my size to know where some of the people who post on message boards get their ideas of what really happens on the playing field. The problem is that too many of the clueless ones get their virility by becoming youth coaches. Beating up on the weak is a thrill to them.
I’ve coached kids. I’ve taken teams to state championships. I’ve had kids come back to me years later and tell me I was a good coach and they enjoyed playing for me. I was always honest with those kids. They know what is going on in the game. They don’t have to look at the scoreboard. They are out there and it doesn’t take a total embarrassment give them a life lesson and gauge their prospects. They got into sports to have fun, not to get killed. Nobody is telling anyone not to be competitive.
Is boxing a “wussy” sport? Well, one thing about it that is absolutely correct is that you don’t hit anybody when they are down and you should stop the contest before anyone gets killed.
Fine, we’ve established that continuing to play the game as if nothing was wrong is the incorrect response.
Then what?
This is why I say this is a stupid rule: if the league wants something special to happen once one team is 35 points ahead, they should spell out what that is. Snowthx’s league did this, by specifying that you win at +35 points and then just keep playing for the practice, and so didn’t take the stupid, cowardly way out.
Presumably in some matchups, one team has to plan ahead on how best not to score. Can they do this (not try to score) openly, or will that result in a different fine?
Just make it so for and against counts for tiebreaking, like most sports. Eventually the stigma of winning by too much will pass.
This is one of those things that could be mentioned in the Non-US Dopers: Please Share Any US Culture References You Didn’t Get from Exported American TV/Mov thread. The idea of deliberately going easy on a team you are thrashing is unheard of in Australia. I played in teams that got belted when I was a kid and I know my teammates and I would have been embarrassed if we were treated like that. Often when we were outgunned we knew we were going to struggle before the game even started. So I can’t imagine how we would have been motivated to try very hard if we knew that once the score reached some point the other team would stop trying to score.
When I coached kid’s cricket I set up things in such a way that everyone got equal chances to do things on the field. This meant they weren’t as efficient as they could have been but I wanted them to enjoy things. But if things fell right and they were giving some team a hiding I never made them stop trying to play as well as they could.
Call the game at the current score.
Then both coaches decide to either:
[ul]
[li]Reset the scoreboard 0-0[/li][li]Eliminate the play clock[/li][li]Continue to play until time runs out[/li][/ul]
Or
[ul]
[li]No whining, you lost, get over it[/li][li]Both teams coaches and staff on the field[/li][li]The coaches work together with both teams[/li][li]Kids run scrimmage plays and drills to work on the fundamentals and build skills[/li][li]Teamwork is stressed to make everyone a better player regardless of the jersey you wear[/li][li]Practice is over when the clock runs out[/li][/ul]
I think the first option could work.
I’d like to see the second option but I fear it may be a bit optimistic.
I agree with R. P. McMurphy that no one really learns anything in a 70 point blowout.
I should mention that these youth football leagues are not developmental leagues, but are competitive. That said, there are no developmental leagues (that I know about) for football, likely due to the expense of the equipment and fields, etc., so these teams are usually constrained by geography, both in the availability of coaches and players. They field whatever team they can get based on what kids and coaches are in their community.
My son’s coach is a good one. If they build up a big lead going into the 4th quarter, he will put in some of the boys who did not get a lot of playing time and rest the stars. The expectations are still high, and if the other team gets a touchdown, it is not exactly praised, but if the scoreboard is blanked, the touchdown does not count anyway (but it gives the other team something to cheer about).
I think letting the kids continue to play to the best of their ability, in both victory and defeat, is still important. THAT is sportsmanship, too. Threat of fines and suspensions and going easy on the other team are not going to help anyone feel better.
zoid, I don’t think either of your options are going to work. Option #1 should not be left to the coaches - the league needs to have a written policy for this situation that is enforceable by the officials at the game. Otherwise, your three bullets are spot on. Option #2 is weird - I don’t know that turning a game into a practice where opponents work together to improve skills would fly. I think this would be more insulting and embarrassing to the losing team than just losing the game.
don’t ask - in the US there is a pervasive meme to not stomp on kids’ self esteem. In many sports and other youth activities, EVERYONE gets a trophy at the end of the season, no matter how well or poorly the team did. Some have argued that this “everybody wins” concept is creating a generation of “wussies” who cannot handle the real world where there are definite winners and losers.