You've shafted my daughter one time too many!

Regarding the OP:

What’s the local theater community like where you are? Try checking that out. I rarely worked in my high school because I found more committed, more professional people in the local community and professional theatres in my area. It’s been nothing but good for me, and I’ve found that integrity like what you describe (I agree with the board, your daughter showed great class) is much more appreciated there.

I understand what you’re saying, Ex, and I appreciate the gentle way in which you’ve said it.

But the fact is that we all recognize her abilities and limitations. She’s not a stellar singer or actor. The gal who played Maria in The Sound of Music a year or two ago – now there was something special.

But she’s high average for her peer group. The director of the show is also her drama teacher in school, and always has high praise for her work in class. But she’s never cast her in a stage production.

My daughter has taken private voice lessons (and sings very very well), and has been active in small community theater camps during the summer. She could carry most of the parts in any of the shows she’s been in as well as or better than the kid who got it. She just wasn’t given a chance. Nor was her loyalty rewarded, which, in high school dramatics should count for something. Instead, the teacher used the knowledge that she’d want to be involved any way she could and exploited it so she’d have a production manager she could rely on.

Ironically, were she a boy, she’d have the pick of the roles. The girls in the shows outnumber the boys by about 5 to 1. She’s just been passed over.

Interestingly, when the teacher handed her the role Tuesday, she told her she’d made a mistake in not casting her, as if she realized now what a perfect Elizabeth my daughter would be, yadda yadda yadda.

But when the original kid came back and wanted her part back, what happened?

There’s more here than meets the eye.

That’s not only unprofessional, it’s just downright mean. The teacher should be raked over the coals for behaving in such a manner.

If the other girl lost the part as a consequence for her behaviours, she the teacher should darn well follow through.

I agree. your daughter is a class act!

“I agree. your daughter is a class act!”

And bloody well ought to show it on stage by being Elizabeth.

[sub]A careful reader will notice “being”, not “playing”.[/sub]

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I disagree. Once again, this is a high school drama production. This is supposed to be a learning experience. The point of the exercise is not to get glowing reviews so you can put together a touring company, the point of the exercise is to ensure that the people who participate get the most benefit out of the experience as possible. This requires, among other things, passing around the starring roles.

But in this case, she’s paid her dues in more ways than one. Most specifically, by having the role jerked out from under her at the last minute. She has been both robbed and certified as competent to play a leading role.

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Yeah, really. At this level, you should certainly get to play – even start – in some games, at least. Lots of very driven and, in my opinion, unbalanced, people often forget this, but the motto of American Little League Baseball is supposed to be “Everybody plays.”

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Here’s your mistake right here. This isn’t a play opening on Broadway or in the West End. It’s a high school play.

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Well, no, at least not in high school. A high school drama coach isn’t supposed to be basing decisions based on “What will make the best play?” He’s supposed to be making decisions based on “What will be the best thing for my students?” Correctly answering this question sometimes means giving a hard working, dedicated student the experience of performing a major role even though you’ve got a minature Dame Judi Dench in your class. It is simply inappropriate to always hand over the leading role to the same one or two people, regardless of how much “better” they are than everyone else.

Anyway, if you’re concerned about the way things work in the real world, they’d work like this. “Gee, the person who quit that you replaced wants her role back.” “Really? Too bad for her. It’s mine now.” “Well, we’d really like to let her have it back.” “Not a chance, unless you make it worth my while. What’s in it for me?” She didn’t do that, though, because her father has, apparently, been filling her head with all kinds of weird ideas about being “noble” and “thoughtful” and “unselfish” and suchlike. Had she been sufficiently self-centered and grasping, she probably could have driven a pretty hard bargain.

In my opinion, it’s up to her father to correct this error on her behalf.

First of all, my condolences on the unfair, rude, and flaky treatment your daughter has been subjected to. She handled it with saintlike patience. You raised her well.

However… are you sure that your daughter is okay with your talking to the administration about the incident? Forgive me if you discussed that in this thread or not, I might have skimmed over it. I only bring this up because I know a lot of teens would rather not have their parents confront school officials about this sort of thing; they think it sends a message akin to “You made me mad so my mommy and daddy are going to give you hell! Arrrrr!!” (YMMV, especially if your daughter is not a pirate). :stuck_out_tongue:

I understand your coming to her defense, because she is still your little girl… but maybe you can persuade her into talking to the principal herself - after all, she is also nearing legal adulthood.

Did you read my whole post? At the end, I said that I thought she should get to keep the part.

Little league baseball goes up to about 12 or 13 years old. And yes, everyone should play. But everyone can’t pitch.

Truth Seeker, sorry to say, but from experience, you’re way off base here.

Yes, a huge part of high school theatre is to provide a learning experience for as many students as possible, but more important than that is the survival and success of the program.

I’ve been involved in a high school’s theatre department here for 9 years now, from a time when they had a hard time filling half the auditorium to a point where there were sell-out shows most nights.

In a time when drama departments’ funding can be cut at the next budget meeting, it’s important to give as exciting and polished a performance as possible, so that parents will want to support the department (not just parents of participants). If a drama coach had to make the decision betwee putting someone on stage who would be reading from the script (as may have been the case here) or someone who knew the part without it, I would totally understand if he or she put on the person who would give the better performance.

It’s the director’s responsibility to ensure the existance of the program.

That said, it’s particulalry shitty and wrong to give the part to someone and then take it away. I think this director is wrong to have given a kid the part and then relatively arbitrarially taken it away. Should have either stuck to her guns or not issued the ultimadem to the other kid in the first place.

I have to agree with Eonwe about keeping the program alive, but if the school is concerned about the program, then why is a director like this in charge? What she has done is contrary to everything I have ever seen and heard a director do. How could she possibly have kicked out the prima donna because of an argument two days before the show, much less expect Sakura to do it at such short notice?

Personally I dislike being on stage, and can’t understand why anyone would want to be the center of attention like that. However, to give such a role to a person who has given so much already and cares so much, then take it away, is beyond unreasonable. I don’t, however, think that production manager is in any way a bad job to have. Roles behind the scenes are just as important, if not more so :wink: than what happens onstage.

I also have to say that I’m sure I would have handled this with less class. There is no doubt in my mind that on opening night I would have calmly walked up to the prima donna and wished her “good luck,” then walked away again.

Anyway, I hope that the conference goes well, and that you manage to bring about some change in this faulty drama system. Break a leg :smiley:

It sounds like your daughter is perfectly capable in theatre, and they are not giving her a chance. They sound like flakes. Cruel flakes, to be honest.

I believe that Exgineer brings up a good point, though. Many parents think that their darling child is the most talented, wonderful person ever. And it can really be damaging (in the long run) to the darling child, because sooner or later (no matter how talented they are—or not) the bubble will burst, and they will be told that they are not “all that”. However, in your daughter’s case, it sounds like you have a full grasp (a very healthy grasp) of her strengths and talents. Good for you. And I think your obvious grasp of your daughter’s abilities (in a realistic but supportive way) have helped her. She’s obviously a “class act”, and no doubt you’ve helped her be that way. (Just my guess.)

It sounds like she’s perfectly capable of doing these parts, and they are screwing her over for whatever reason. And it’s not right. However, that seems to be high school. It’s all screwed up, and nothing makes sense. Let me repeat that: NOTHING MAKES SENSE. Or maybe that’s just my own prejudices about high school stepping in. :wink:

I just remember my own high school experience. Maybe this doesn’t relate so much to theatre, since it is about art, but I have a feeling that the dynamics between the two are similar, especially when it comes to high school.

In high school, I was always keenly interested in art, and I was considered pretty good at it. (I sold my portraits, did comissions, blah blah blah.) But like even sven and her experiences in high school, I was passed over for opportunities repeatedly. Broke my heart more than a few times. Maybe there was something in me that was getting me passed over, but whatever it was, it wasn’t because my ability was inferior to those who got the breaks. And it seemed to me at the time that some of the people that were chosen for the opportunities often didn’t really give a damn about art that much (it was more of a “lark” to them). In some cases, they weren’t very good artists at all. It made no sense, at the time. It still doesn’t. It was almost as if I had a sign painted on my forehead saying, “No matter how hard she tries, just ignore her.”

But it was a long time ago. All I know is that everything changed after high school. It seemed like things evened out a little more, made more sense. The untalented prima donnas weren’t catered to and didn’t get all the opportunities anymore. Those of us who cared a lot and worked hard seemed to be recognized for that, at least a little more often.

Man. High school sucks. That’s the only pearl of wisdom I can offer.

IT’s not horrible.

She is learning a valuable lesson in life. You don’t always get what you want.

The most important lesson anyone can learn in life is assertiveness.

It doesn’t matter what “reality” is. It only matters what perceptions of reality are. It doesn’t matter what you actually do. It only matters what people think you do. You need the ability (because noone can sustain a favorable impression indefinitely without it) but all the ability in the world is irrelevant unless those with authority notice it.

We all have to learn that we are not the centre of the universe. In fact, other people’s lives generally consist of making their own life as easy as possible. That report card you received in school? Betcha anything that at least one teacher was struggling to remember who in the hell you even were. But it was so important to you at the time. There is a disjunct between the experience of the authority figure, who has a zillion things to take care of, and the one under the authority, who is just focussed on their own plight. As such, if you want to succeed, you have to make it easy for other people to help you succeed.

Nobody owes you anything and if it makes somebody else’s life easier to fuck you over then you will be fucked over. So don’t make it easy for them to fuck you over.

This doesn’t mean that you have to become a hardnosed cynic or aggressive or mean. It just means that you need to know what you want and act in accordance with these wants. It means that when somebody inevitably does try to fuck you over - and it happens to us all - you calmly and rationally make the consequences for them unpleasant. They won’t do it again.

Above all, what you do not do is become a doormat. Never encourage a victim mentality. Because all somebody learns when you don’t defend yourself appropriately is that you are an easy target; and they will therefore do it again and again and again. The power to stop the cycle is within you and only within you.

I have to be careful here. It’s easy to go the other way. Then you’ll end up with the opposite problem - people won’t trust you, they won’t want to interact with you and you’ll have difficulty with relationships, be they professional or otherwise. But to those who are overfocussed on what other people think of them, I would heartily recommend that they take these words to heart. If you want to be a winner, you have to take on the attitude of a winner. Simple as that.

pan

I don’t quite understand - they did offer to split the performance, but your daughter (nobly) declined.

Perhaps they shafted her by not insisting she do at least one performance. But from your post I got the impression that the option was there.

It’s a very sad set of circumstances all round. From a professional point of view, if the main actress had walked/been fired, she wouldn’t have been allowed back, so the understudy (your daughter) should have gone on stage.

That absolutely sucks, Dave. Once it got to the point where Sakura was busting her ass in rehearsals, trying to play catch-up to make the show come out okay, that should’ve been the point of no return. An apology from the original lead, after that point, should have been greeted with, “that’s big of you to apologize; we look forward to your trying out for the next play.”

Because at that point, her misbehavior had inconvenienced others (especially Sakura), but at least it had inconvenienced them for a reason. But once they let her have her part back, that meant that they’d put everyone involved with the play through a lot of extra work for nothing.

I agree with Eonwe that there’s importance to maintaining a good program. But in a situation like this, the teachable moment has to come first: this is still school, and the message has to always, always be that while the system exists to serve the kids, the kids aren’t the ones running it.

In this case, the director has completely lost his cred. How long can it be before he can assert his authority if another actor gets out of line? Nobody’s going to step in as understudy after what they’ve seen done to Sakura, because he shafted her, and the expectation is he’ll shaft them too. So now the threat of him pulling a part out from under some prima donna is an empty one, until everyone who saw this episode graduates, and the institutional memory fades.

Whatever difference in polish the production may have had with the original actress rather than Sakura, is completely not worth it for that reason.

Dave, I have to agree with kabbes’ advice about assertiveness. Like he said, it’s also important for assertiveness to not become anger and rudeness, but you’re not the sort to go there anyway. But I think it will be a good example for Sakura to see you make your points in the conference passionately and firmly, but fundamentally politely. In general, that’s the best way to really give it to someone who has it coming. And the principal and the director both have it coming.

Give Sakura a hug for all of us, OK?

This reminds me of my high school’s senior play. I had to fill in at the last minute for one of the more important supporting roles because the guy who had been rehearsing it suffered a flare-up of a chronic ulcer.

Your daughter sounds like a wonderfull person. Nice, sweet and willing to do what she can for the sake of the team.

But still, and this is assuming I’m not insane and reading this incorrectly, if they offered to split the days with her she should have jumped at that and taken it as an oppurtunity to showcase her talents instead of bowing out for the sake of the other girl. And had an extra day to prepare even.

The other girl already proved what a jerk she was. Why should your daughter give such high regard to her feelings from that point on? I don’t mean she should rub it in her face or be mean about it, but still, she should have accepted that as a semi-reasonable solution and played the role on one of the days offered.

If she has the talent then that would have been a great chance to prove it and show she was up to playing other important parts in the future. That surely would have proved 3 very important things: 1) she has the ability to prepare on short notice for an important role, 2) she is willing to compromise & 3) she has what it takes to be a thespian.

I think it was a big mistake to not take them up on their offer if she is serious about wanting these types of roles. If I were the one making the offer, I’m not sure how I would have taken being turned down. Especially, if a big stink is raised about it. I can tell you how I think I would react, but I don’t wish to cast any aspersions towards someone that sounds like such a decent person.

Some of these points are moot, such as RTFirefly’s, because the teacher is retiring after next year, and Sakura is graduating.

Other points raised, such as the director’s decision as to what would make the best play, and whether there should be a reward for someone’s loyalty, let me say this:

The plays wouldn’t have been appreciably better or worse had my daughter been cast in a larger role. But as a program in an educational setting, what has been her lesson by being skipped over repeatedly? At this point, it’s mostly that people will take advantage of you if you let them. I don’t like seeing her become so cynical in so short a time. She’s been disappointed in the past, but always figured being involved in some way was better than not being involved at all. It would have been nice for high school to not mimic the real world so closely, and allow her to realize her dream of being in the spotlight just once. Other students, with less experience and loyalty, have been given roles that my daughter could have filled just as capably.

As far as her knowing about the conference, she does know. Her mother has wanted to lambaste the teacher/director for years, but has held back because of the possible future implications. This was the straw that broke the camel’s back, and also the last show my daughter will be doing with this teacher, and the next-to-last show for this teacher, as she’s retiring after next year.

Sakura has asked me to thank everyone for their kind wishes and comments, even those who suggested, however gently, that perhaps her talent wasn’t up to snuff.

She’s realistic about her ability, and has no illusions that she could become a Broadway headliner or a movie actress. Those are not her long-term goals. But being realistic about your ability also means acknowledging when you do have talent and when you have worked hard.

And she would have liked to have been recognized in a specific way. Her disappointment in the machinations which put such recognition right in her hand, only to pluck it away again, 36 hours later, may be how life works. But it still sucks.

As even sven (I’m not stalking you, honest!) and anyone else involved in theater in the real world can probably tell you, the industry is full of High School actors who are all vying for the shot at the plum role.

Sakura will have much more value, and much more influence in theater if she continues to do work as stage manager, production assistant, etc.

When I tried to work on the play my Sophmore year, Ms. Boyen ('member her, sven) didn’t have ANY production people. The actors made the costumes, the sets, and the props. Much disgruntlement.

She got better though.

Sakura will be in a much better position in the real world than the little Prima Donna, who will be in for a surprise when she walks on a college production and the director tells her to go fuck herself when she comes back to ‘apologize’.

Bingo. And what a lesson to learn. But the next lesson she needs to be taught is what you do about it. Some people react by folding in upon themselves and becoming bitter. I would suggest that this is not the way to go. Others react by learning how to become assertive and get what you want. The sooner you can learn this in life the better.

By shielding your daughter from this reality, it’s just going to be that much harder later to unlearn the lesson that everything will be taken care of for her by people with her best interests at heart.

Cynical? Or realistic?

I can understand completely why you want to protect your daughter. I can understand why you want things to be the best for her. Realise this: you are one of perhaps four people at most in this world who feel this way. This realisation need not come as a bitter blow. She doesn’t have to get world-weary and cynical about it. She just needs to gain the confidence to believe in herself because nobody else is going to do it for her. She needs to learn how to be assertive so that she can be in control and direct the situation how she wants it.

Where you see a problem, I see an opportunity. Make sure that she understands that this is how life works and you know what? That is fine. People have the capacity to be giving, selfless and kind but generally they’re too wrapped up in their own problems to display these traits. Learning how to bring them out is one hell of a skill and worth learnings sooner rather than later.

pan