It’ll never go away because it’s an easily digestible stat, but no, I’m not sure a pitcher’s won-loss record is important. The team’s won-loss record matters.
But it’s a TEAM statistic (and yes, the most important team statistic). It’s application to pitchers is irrelevant.
Well, clearly, whatever else may be true, after awarding the Cy Young (NL) to Lincecum, wins and losses are irrelevant.
There were no 20 game winners in the NL. 19 was max ,so there wasn’t a whole lot of difference. Wins and losses are important.
Unless you’re Greg Maddux, in which case you just call it “the mid-90s” 
So the difference between 19 and 20 is greater than the difference than 15 and 19?
Can you tell me why you think a team stat should be used for an individual player?
He never will. He’s just going to repeat “wins and losses are important” by rote for the rest of this board’s existence, even if MLB itself drops the statistic.
Congrats to both Greinke and Lincecum. The best men won.
Do you honestly think wins will be demoted as an important statistic? Baseball is a team game. Pitchers get a lot of help from a good defense. Last year the Tigers had a horrible time with pitching. This year they were pretty solid. The difference was they picked up some good defensive players. Everett gave and took away at short. He played good D which helped a lot. But his hitting was pathetic which hurt.
When did I say a one game difference was important. I think a 3 or 4 game difference makes me want to go deeper. Do you really think a 4 game win difference can be snubbed?
But it WAS snubbed. DUH!
You said there was no 20 game winner, so a 15 game winner winning isn’t that big a surprise. But there was a 19 game winner; is the difference between 15 and 19 that much less than the difference between 15 and 20 that it supports your thesis somehow? :smack:
Which is why people are looking more and more at pitching stats that don’t depend so much on defense. Wins are not one of those stats because they are heavily influenced by run support and other things.
In terms of wins, Greinke finished in a three-way tie for seventh in the AL. Lincecum finished in an eight-way tie for fourth. Both won their awards over guys with 19 wins. So clearly, the win totals did not count for too much. Let’s not pretend the win is completely dead: a guy who wins 20 games is probably going to have a leg up over guys who don’t. Since there were none, other stats took precedent. I wouldn’t bet on that happening every year, but it’s also true that the wins leader or a 20 game winner is no longer a lock to win.
Yes - baseball is a team game. As such, team statistics such as wins are a great indicator of team performance. They’re not such a great indicator of* individual performance* because…
Do you know who had a really terrible, horrible, no good, very bad defense behind him? Greinke. Does that for some reason make him a worse pitcher because his defense lost games for him? Like you said - it’s a TEAM game. The Cy Young is an INDIVIDUAL award. Why are you punishing the individual for something the team did?
When you said this:
20 wins = your gold standard
19 wins = Wainwright’s win total
15 wins = Lincecum’s win total
The difference between 20 and 19 is one. The difference between 19 and 15 is four.