Well, you know what they say. You are what you eat.
Is there a debate here, or just another trainwreck thread about the RNC?
I missed Zell’s speech. Are there points of contention, or is this just either an “I like Zell” or “I hate Zell” poll?
OK, I’ll start one before bed.
Kerry made a statement along these lines to the Harvard Crimson when he was 26 years old, in February 1970. He has since retracted this statement forcefully and repeatedly. Is it fair to use statements 36 years old as fair representations of a candidate’s beliefs?
And a few breaths later, he has the gall to say
He listed a whole litany of weapons systems that Kerry was against, blatantly misrepresentating Kerry’s voting records.
This is the line of argument that particularly irked me was this one:
His next line backs away from his implication of treason:
But he has just spent the past 3 minutes accusing them of political manuevering at the expense of the strength of the country. How that is not questioning their patriotism, I don’t know. Besides the obvious false strawman (that Democrats believe that America is always the problem – show me a single quote where Kerry or any Democratic leader has so much as implied that), he has gone nuclear at the first breath and further riven the perceived wound afflicting America. His example of Wendall Wilkie was used to imply that Democrats should just roll over for the Republicans (as Wilkie supposedly did for FDR but I doubt the real life circumstances were as cut and dry as presented). Their legitimate beef is now a “manic obsession” emblematic of their “warped way of thinking,” which is of course presented as the primary thing tearing our country apart. Never mind the politics of fear, the capitalization of a polarized public, and the distortions repeated until they are accepted as fact. Yes, both sides do this. But one side has made it an idee fixee. Sadly, it is working too well for them to stop.
Actually, this was pretty accurate.
Wendell Willkie ran in 1940 on domestic matters only, attacking the New Deal as inefficient and wasteful. But he supported fully Roosevelt’s foreign policies.
Roosevelt, incidentally, had a great deal of respect for Willkie, and after the election appointed him his special representative. Willkie toured England and the Far East during the war.
After this tour, he published the book One World, which was a runaway bestseller. This book was the birth, essentially, of Republican internationalism and helped sell the idea of the United Nations to the American public.
Willkie, sadly, died in 1944.
Well, after all, it would almost be based on the same time frame as the cornerstone of his entire campaign.
The more I think about it, the more I think this draws a line in the sand. Miller’s speech was one of the most vile, dishonest attacks.
I’m not alone in thinking this, even among conservatives. http://andrewsullivan.com/
This is a southern segregationist who is bitter that his party abandonded him on that issue. The fact that people are actually praising his bile, that’s what draws the line. Pale beyond the pale.
Zell Miller blows with the prevailing political winds. When segregation was the thing, he was a segregationist. When liberalism was cool he was a liberal. When moderation was cool, he was a moderate. And now, Zell has taken note of the Republican majorities in Congress, and his speech last night is the result.
By way of contrast, Here’s the text of Miller’s keynote speech at the 1992 Democratic convention.
Some highlights:
One thing we know is that Zell Miller is a liar. He was either lying when he said he believed in the ideals of the Democratic Party, or he’s lying now.
While Zell is a traitor in my book, I don’t think yours is a fair assessment.
Zell was a segregationist when that’s what it took to get elected back in the 60s. In the 70s and 80s he was a liberal-to-moderate, and as Governor he was noted for his many, many appointments of liberal black judges to the Georgia bench.
Mostly, Zell is a finger-in-the-wind politician. He was nicknamed Zig Zag Zell way back when he was Lieutenant Governor (after his swith from segregationist to liberal).
As for the OP:
What is Zell’s motivation? I have a theory on that. I think Zell wants his statue on the lawn of the Georgia capitol building along with other notable governors of Georgia. Since Georgia’s legislature is in the process of turning Republican, Miller knew that “Democratic Zell” wasn’t about to be immortalized in bronze. And so he has become “pseudo-Republican Zell.” I will revive this thread in a couple of years when the statue is commissioned by Georgia’s then-Republican legislature.
I should also mention that Zell has never been one to resist more pecuniary rewards. When he ran for Governor, it came out that Georgia Power had been providing him with a sweetheart lease on a lakefront home, and he had to give it up. Draw you own conclusions.
That’s interesting. Zell also recently raised the idea of duelling certain members of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution’s editorial staff. Maybe he is coming unhinged.
“Compassionate conservatism?”
I’m thinking more along the lines of “mean-spirited fascism.”
Did anyone else see Zell on CNN after the convention? It wasn’t nearly as crazy as the interview cheddarsnax saw, but it was just surreal. Almost like he was channelling Ross Perot. Very combative, very off-your-rocker, very beligerent, etc. When confronted with the fact that Cheney opposed a number of the defense cuts (while in the Defense Department) that he chastized Kerry for voting against, he looked like someone had just killed his puppy.
I regained some of my respect for McCain last night when he voiced disagreement with Zell’s speech in a interview. I think all this partisan mudslinging sincerely bothers McCain, and it makes him uncomfortable when things like Kerry’s patriotism are questioned. As it should, since they are friends. I wonder what his breaking point will be.
The tone of this convention has progressively become more angry and negative. The smiling optimism of Guiliani and Arnold is in sharp contrast to the dour tone of Cheney and the spit-flying visciousness of Miller. There was booing everytime Kerry or Edward were mentioned. It was less like a pep rally for the president than it was a lynch mob rally. I could almost hear the drums beating.
But one thing struck me: almost every time the camera flashed on the audience, I spied at least one or two people just sitting there, not even clapping when everyone else was whooping and hollering. Are these people just stoic, or were they not responsive because they disagree with the message or tone? I don’t remember seeing the same number of zombies at the DNC, but perhaps I just wasn’t paying enough attention.
hehe I was wondering if I was the only one that saw it… he got all mixed up.
You should have seen how Zell Miller got all thumbs when CNN’s Blitzer asked him about Cheney voting against the same bills as Kerry. Also about Bush using the word “occupiers”. Zell simply stuttered and babbled on.
Bush reffered to Americans as occupiers several times. Correctly so. He even said that he understood that Iraqis didn’t like being occupied and that americans wouldn’t like it either.
Count me in as another who agrees with Andrew Sullivan. In particular:
No doubt!
Zell and Dick personify why I left the Republican Party about a decade ago. I could not stand that hateful, blatantly disingenuous, supercilious stance that more and more powerful Republicans were using. The ruthlessly partisan, sanctimonious spirit of Newt Gingrich is alive and well. I know that not all Republicans are not like this. I sincerely hope, for their party’s sake, they wake up and kick those assholes out who are causing their party–and in turn the country–such grievous harm.
In the long run, nasty, mendacious people like Zell and Dick aren’t doing the GOP the least good. It may turn out that “grievous harm” is an understatement! No, I don’t expect politics to be nice and respectful all the time. But these guys have truly taken it to a new level. The worst of it is that this nastiness is born out in their policies! It’s not just a public persona to rile the troops, in other words. Therein lies the harm to the country.
Would that the GOP in any way resembled the party described by Arnold! “Compassionate conservatism” has never been more of a joke.
Actually, neither.
Regards,
Shodan
In case others haven’t seen it, Zell on Hardball with Chris Matthews was a classic. Zell challenged Matthews to a duel because Matthews argued that Republicans saying that Kerry opposes our troops is the ethical equivalent of Democrats saying that Republicans want to let children starve and kill old people.
Video link at the top of this page.
I’m starting to think that Zell has more mental problems than McCain, and I have long thought that McCain isn’t too far from the edge.
Shodan, I like this excerpt better.
You must be joking to evoke Orwell on behalf of Zell. The reaction of the Republicans to Michael Moore during McCains’ speech was the “Two Minutes Hate” right out of “1984” and Moore was their very own Emmanuel Goldstein:
“The horrible thing about the Two Minutes Hate was not that one was obliged to act a part, but, on the contrary, that it was impossible to avoid joining in. Within thirty seconds any pretence was always unnecessary. A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge-hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one’s will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic.”
To get that kind of reaction all a person has to do is mention Bill Clinton! Hillary Clinton! Michael Moore! to foamy right-wingers. It’d be funny if it weren’t so pathetic and scary.
Livin’ in a Gaslight world…
From TNR:
Like the vicious partisan smear campaign unleashed by Max Cleland in 2002 against George Bush and Saxby Chambliss. :rolleyes:
Was laid up last night with a very sore inflammation and, finding myself in no mood to watch the Pubs’ nightly round of b.s., sprawled out on the bed and put on a Hollies cd (how’s that for a tree-huggin’ liberal remedy!). Before I drifted off, though, I decided to flip on NPR and see what was going on at the freak show, and caught what must have been the apex of Miller’s tirade. Within maybe eight seconds it became more than apparent to me that this was the (almost) quaintly incoherent ranting of a sublimely bitter, spiritually exhausted old man.
His interview with Chris Matthews, which Ravenman already mentioned, more than confirmed this impression, even as it threw ‘dangerously paranoid’ and ‘frighteningly clueless’ into the mix. (Note: It was entertaining to see Matthews reduced to nervous laughter by threats of bodily harm.) I think that the faith Karl Rove’s Slime Machine may have in Zell Miller as some kind of campaign trump card would be adorable if it weren’t so brain numbingly sad.
I wasn’t talking about Miller. I was talking about the Usual Suspects on the SDMB.
Seriously. Every fucking speech during the Democratic convention wasn’t met with this kind of venting. The conservatives and moderates on the SDMB didn’t feel the need to Pit everyone who ever appeared on camera on behalf of Kerry. Who attacked Ron Reagan Jr. hereabouts when he spoke?
And yet it seems to be “My golly! Someone, somewhere has said something positive about Bush! I need to regurgitate three paragraphs of hatred to re-calibrate the Bile Balance of the universe!”
snicker
I smell fear.
Not that I blame you. I think he’s gonna win, too.
Regards,
Shodan