I don’t know if it’s universal, but isn’t there an understanding in Judaism that a child of a jewish mother is jewish even if they decide otherwise? Rather than having a big row, can’t we say Jewish-according-to-Jewish-tradition or Jewish-according-to-themsleves when there’s doubt?
And can’t we do the same thing for people who think they aren’t Christian, but some Christians say they are, or vice-versa?
There is a ligitimate viewpoint that Christian means “having a relationship with Jesus” and it’s possible to do that with Jesus’s manifestation as various good stuff wihtout realising it, so to him, people could be christian without knowing it. That’s not what’s idiotic, what’s idiotic is insisting that’s the only way to use the term, or using it that way when you know full effing well you’re misleading people because normally we classify people by their choice.
This thread reminds me of a call I heard on the Larry King show many years ago. The topic was strife in the Middle East, and some old lady called up to try to smooth the waters. When she said,“I don’t know why the Jews, Christians and Moslems can’t just get along, because they all worship Christ in their own way.”, I :smack: ed my forehead.
Because my opinion on “all-inclusiveness” differs from yours, and I wish to participate in this conversation. You’ve stated your opinion-why are you still here?
Well. I guess if we’re gonna pull out the verse microscope (;)), there are three Hebrew words in that verse. A reasonable translation could be “You have no God besides me.” But that says nothing about how many Avatars there might be. Again, one garden, but many gates. It is my opinion that Christ is Himself the garden, but if that is a stumbling block for another man, Jesus would be the first to tell him to cut Him off, just like a hand that offends.
Yes, fine, but I didn’t mean why are you still here typing, I meant why are you still banging on the gate and yelling, “I don’t want to come in!”? You seem to feel like someone is pulling on you as you kick and scream.
That would be me, I’m afraid. As a universalist who’s been following this thread, I’ve been quitely believing that God is a part of everyones life whether they acknowledge it or not, and that Jesus will ultimately save Czarcasm no matter what. I apologize, and from now on I’ll be an Everyonebutczarcasmist.
My girlfriend prays for me regularly. She loves me. She wants me to be healthy, happy, successful, all that… I know it comes from the heart and this is one of the ways in which she expresses her lover for me.
But I’m an atheist. I prefer all the other ways in which she expresses her love for me.
I often joke with her by telling her to knock it off and not do that while she is sitting on the couch so close to me. I don’t want to get struck by lightning by mistake.
The thing is, I love her and I don’t get upset with her. She’s found faith and it makes her happy. I get no comfort from a faith based belief and I’m nevertheless happy. Everybody is happy, right? Except she, like many religious people the world over, aren’t happy unless they are praying for us philistines. ;j
I’m trying to follow this, but I’m having trouble.
Czarcasm: I don’t follow you God under some other name.
Liberal: Ah, but what you do follow winds up in the same place in the end.
Czarcasm: No, no it doesn’t.
Liberal: Sure it does, I can tell you want it. Go on, ya know you want to.
Isn’t this just an extension of what began this thread? I mean, I’m getting a simple message here. People don’t want their beliefs subjugated into someone else’s. Whether it’s “all are but different names for God,” or “all are but different names for Right and Wrong,” doesn’t matter.
It shows a lack of respect, in my opinion, to redefine someone elses beliefs just so you can accept them. Maybe it’s necessary to your definition of “Good People,” I don’t know, but it smacks of smugness and pretentiousness.
Liberal, I don’t know you’re stake in this as I’ve only glanced at the other thread. If this is a side you wish to defend, or merely extended satire, I’d appreciate it if you could make it clear. Thank you.
There is no truth in any religion. All religions from the dawn of time to the present are nothing but lies; they are an elaborate con game perpetrated by one group of people on another and nothing more.
THAT is why I am offended when people call me a Christian. I have not been a Christian since my early teens, when I found out the truth about religions. I don’t like being lied to, and I really don’t like it when others keep trying to force that lie down my throat.
I wasn’t fishing for a compliment but I’ll take it. Thank you.
The thing is, Czarcasm’s point is accurate. Like it or not, us poor dumb atheist bastards are being dragged kicking and screeming to that garden of yours.
It’s a bit like a patronizing pat on the head. “Yes, yes, QS you’re my strong big smart man, angry with god! But that’s okay, I’ve got your back!”
Again, it doesn’t upset me because we find humour in our difference and respective outlook on this issue. She doesn’t drag me to church with her. I don’t make her prove the existance of god to me. We have reached détente.
However, I absolutely draw the line at her playing the Indigo Girls in my presence.
This implies that atheists, who believe in Universe, actually believe in your God in a round about fashion.
This in response to Czarcasm implies that he does, indeed, worship your God if he finds Universe to be beautiful/wonderful/awesome. The point is that no, he does not. Gods don’t enter into his paradigm, and to tell him that he must worship God because that’s how you conceive of his philosophy…
He doesn’t worship God, because he doesn’t believe in one. You can try to sneak a deity in through the back door, but I don’t think it would work.
(As if a Gnostic, a Pantheist, a Deist, an Atheist, a Nihilist, a Solipsist, etc… arrive at anything like a common ground…)
