Basel v Liverpool (Spoilers)

[ruadh]

F*********King hell!

I really wanted to watch this game but decided I really had to go to the gym instead (since I'd been sick for a couple weeks and am off to Blackburn Thursday). Damn damn damn. Turned it on just in time for Owen's penalty.

Of course I'm delighted to see Basel go through, and not just because it makes our exit at their hands less embarrassing. But I really wish I had been able to see the entire game. So what do you folks reckon are Basel's chances for the next round?

_{insert obligatory "please don't bother responding if you don't know or care what I'm talking about" clause here}

[everton]

It’s difficult to type and laugh at the same time, but I’ll do my best.

First of all, it was a cracker of a match for a neutral bystander, and the Reds deserve all credit for a plucky fight back, but it has to be said that Basle were understandably complacent during the second half, and although Murphy’s goal was a nice sharp finish, Owen was offside. I thought the penalty was one of those handball/ball-to-hand jobs (don’t read that too quickly) that refs sometimes give and sometimes don’t.

Going forward, Basle looked OK – even at three-nil – especially Hakan Yakin, who made all the goals. But it didn’t help the cause for Liverpool’s defence, even Hyppia, being asleep for the first two. Swapping Milan Baros for Heskey was a good move, but the problems were in defence, not attack.

If Basle come up against any of the big boys in the next stage they’ll struggle – and they may have used up all their get out of jail cards at Anfield. Let’s face it, teams rarely go far in the competition without past experience behind them, and I don’t expect them to buck that trend. I think you have to be an attacking force like Valencia of 2000 to absorb the liability of a defence that concedes three at home, and they’re not all that.

All the best for the Blackburn game, of course. I’d appreciate it if you take them to extra time too as we’ve got them next.

[ruadh]

I hope we don't take them to extra time, I'm not sure my heart can take it

It's been really interesting the British media coverage of Basel, I really don't think they've been given the respect they deserve. Probably comes down to being managed by Christian Gross and therefore being subject to the same arrogant "he failed in our leage, therefore he's crap" attitude that Joseph Venglos got.

[Crusoe]

True, but it's not the worst that the tabloids can produce; Venglos and Gross did fail in England, so I can't really blame the media getting cocky.

[Tansu]

Basel were very fierce going forward in the first half. Liverpool weren't helped by the fact that Gerard Houllier seemed to have taken his tactics from the Big Book of How Not To Defend. It looked an awful lot like "let's stand around, holding our line, and hope for offside."

Riise was fast asleep for the first goal, and Hyypiä's mind seemed to be elsewhere for a lot of the time (he's had a few slightly "off" games this season).

Basel were rather good, but I'd be interested to see how well they do against a better-performing defence and a beefier midfield.

[manwithaplan]

Great game but I don't know if Basel can go much further. They are good going forward but they conceded 12 goals in the group which leads me to think that they'll struggle in the next phase. There are rumours that Hakan Yakin will be snapped up during the January transfer window - he would be a big loss for the last couple of group games. But you never know, they might do a Bayer Leverkusen and single handedly destroy British clubs' ambitions in the CL.

Their success doesn't make Ireland's task of winning away to Switzerland look any easier.

[TwistofFate]

Well, with McCarthy and Menton gone, things can only go up!

[Andy]

Basel will struggle to get any further....
But who cares????????
Basel are definitely one of my top ten favourite teams of all time from now on.
I really needed something to cheer me up after the derby at the weekend, and this was it.
Bitter Manc? Yeah, but a happier bitter Manc, and ten quid richer for betting with a scouser (who's a cockney) we'd progress further than the red thieves.

[owlstretchingtime]

It's a bit of a myth that Gross "failed" in England.

His record at spurs was better than lah-di-dah Gunner Grahams. But the media love Gooner George and thought Gross was a figure of fun.

Remember that Gross also did well at Grasshoppers.

It looks like another Spurs mis-judgement. Oh well.

Lets hope we've got it right now.

It was a cracking game too.

[Crusoe]

Christian Gross achieved more at Spurs than George Graham did at Arsenal?

[Barks' dog food]

Christian Gross achieved more at Spurs than George Graham did at Arsenal?

I think he meant that Graham achieved less at Spurs then Gross.
Or that keeping Spurs in the Premier league is a greater achievement than winning trofees with Arsenal.

Liverpool is out of CL because they been defending and hoping for a lucky goal the last matches. Their luck ran out on Saturday and didn't return today.
Basel won't get further. The rest of CL will be a UK/Spain/Italy affair.

[everton]

Bark's dog food
No offence, mate, but whatever team you support I recommend you to keep it to yourself for their sake.

[Barks' dog food]

Huh?

[everton]

I was afraid you’d say something like that. Forget it – it’s probably just me (and welcome aboard the SDMB by the way).

The draw for the second stage of the Champions League has just been made:

GROUP D
Manchester United
Juventus
Deportivo La Coruna
Basle

What was I saying about the big boys? Very tough draw. The other groups look like this:

GROUP A
Barcelona
Inter Milan
Bayer Leverkusen
Newcastle United

GROUP B
Valencia
Arsenal
Roma
Ajax

GROUP C
Real Madrid
AC Milan
Borussia Dortmund
Lokomotiv Moscow

As far as last night’s game is concerned, an earlyish goal makes all the difference, of course, but Celtic seemed to have sharpened up a compared to the first leg – much more confident in defence this time, and holding the ball much more in the middle. I don’t think Blackburn played any worse, but there wasn’t that gap of pace or quickness in the tackle that earned them so much possession in the first leg.

The result seemed to be in little doubt well before the second goal and Blackburn crumbled after it. Sutton, Lennon, Petrov and Agathe all very good.

[everton]

The Uefa Cup third round draw looks like this:

Wisla Krakow v Schalke 04
Lazio v Sturm Graz
Real Betis v Auxerre
Besiktas v Dynamo Kiev
Paris St Germain v Boavista
Club Brugge v VfB Stuttgart
Liverpool v Vitesse Arnhem
Panathinaikos v Slovan Liberec
Denizlispor v Lyon
Bordeaux v Anderlecht
Malaga v Leeds United
PAOK Salonika v Slavia Prague
Hertha Berlin v Fulham
AEK Athens v Maccabi Haifa
Porto v Lens
Celtic v Celta Vigo

First legs - 28 November
Second legs - 12 December

Another toughish one, but could have been worse.

[Jabba]

Yes, those Champions League draws are tough. Newcastle managed to avoid Real Madrid, but there still going to have a tough time of it. Arsenal have got Valencia, who looked awesome in the first round. As for Group D, Basel look like outsiders but I could see any one of the other three teams joining them on the way out. I always support British teams in European competitions no matter what I think of them in the domestic leagues but they all look likely to have some difficulties.

[everton]

UEFA's site carries some international opinions about Basel's qualification, and about teams from their own countries.

it also uses the German spelling of Basel, so I'll try to remember to do that too

[TwistofFate]

celta in the next round.

Its going to be very tough, especially as the second leg is away.

[Jabba]

Yes, that will be a tough one. Does anyone know anything about Arnhem, Malaga or Hertha Berlin?

[everton]

Vitesse Arnhem have shown mediocre form in the Dutch League (7th place, W4, D3, L4) but did well to beat Werder Bremen in the last round. They don't have any stand-out stars.

Málaga only qualified through the backdoor of the Intertoto Cup, they have risen to 7th place in the league after a home win against the bottom club Osasuna but have been conceding a few goals against better opposition.

Hertha Berlin, by a strange coincidence, are also in 7th place in the Bundesliga and have had mixed form of late. They had an easy win over Apoel Nikosia of Cyprus in the last round, Brazilian signing Luizao scoring before going off with a bad calf injury.

Celta Vigo are certainly doing well in the Primera Liga this year (ahead of both Real Madrid and Barcelona), aguably only Lazio and Liverpool would be favourites to beat them over two legs.

[manwithaplan]

As an Arsenal fan, I'm not turning cartwheels. The mechanics of the draw meant that Arsenal had to be in the same group as Roma and couldn't get Real Madrid. But I think Barcelona would have been more vulnerable than Valencia and Ajax may be a bit (but not much) tougher than Lokomitiv Moscow or Basel.

A reasonably tough draw for United but it had been largely pre-determined.

[Tansu]

Yep, it is a tough group for Arsenal. I actually reckon that Newcastle have the easiest run, but there really isn't much in it between the four groups at all.

The worst bit of playing Lokomotiv Moskva is actually going all the way to bastard Moscow to bastard well freeze to death.

[casdave]

I think perhaps that Hapoel might just be reviewing their criticisms of Alan Smith's playing ability now.

2 games 8 goals, we are getting to be like Keegans version of Newcastle.

Our centre-backs look too vulnerable to go much further eithr in the Premiership or the UEFA cup.

El-Tel is back to his style it seems, good wins here and there, and frustration everywhere else.

I have to congratulate Bobby Robson and his boys, great stuff even if it was nerve wracking.
I believe they still have one or two players who are short of full match fitness so it would seem there is more to come from them.

Although Arsenals group looks tough, I would bet that all the other teams in it will be seeing them as a tough nut to crack, I'd have thought the Ajax are the weakest team, I think they stand a good chance of qualifying, especially if Henry is fully fit, has to be said that Arsenal need another front line striker with experience at this level, or Jeffers needs to suddenly hit form.

[ruadh]

Well I'm back from Blackburn - what an experience. I had been optimistic about our chances but I never expected to beat them that soundly. What a great response to Souness's comments after the first leg (which admittedly were deserved, but were still just .... rude).

Obviously Celta will be a much more difficult proposition. But in the past 15 months we've managed to beat Ajax, Juventus, Porto, Rosenberg and Valencia as well as Blackburn in competitive games. OK we've lost to most of them as well, but the point is, it is within our abilities to win against teams of that calibre. I feel OK about our chances, not great but OK.

Still reeling over the shock of Didier Agathe having Damien Duff in his pocket ...

[ruadh]

Forgot to mention one of the funniest parts of the trip.

Picture the scene: 25 very pished Irish Celtic fans in the lift at Manchester Airport the day after the game. So pished they don't even notice when the lift stops at their (5th) level and they have to keep going all the way to the top (13th) level and back down. The lift seems to be stopping at every level along the way.

At one stop, the doors open and who walks in but Paul McGrath. The lads don't even bat an eyelid but just start singing "ooh ah Paul McGrath". He smiles, congratulates us on the performance and then gets off the lift.

It was surreal.