Democratic bigotry in denouncing the "Southern Strategy"

In some other threads I’ve discussed the observation being made by some that the Republican party is the party of bigotry and segregationists in general.

Clearly there are bigots in the Republican party just as there are in the Democratic party.

The suggestion is more than this. It is that somehow the Republican party has an agenda of bigotry.

One popular term being thrown about is the “Southern Strategy.”

The idea is that the Republicans appeal to Southern racists tacitly, and sometimes openly using things like “code words,” to get the racist vote.

The fact is that political races are run differently based on what region they’re being run in.

If you are in the South, being an “Aw Shucks,” kinda good ole boy may be a good kinda image. A catchphrase like “The South’s going to do it again!” will likely elicit a rebel yell or two in the right venue.

Are these things really racist pandering, or just an appeal to commonality?

When Kennedy said “Ich Nein Berliner” or whatever, clearly he didn’t mean he was a Nazi, or that he was moving to Berlin. He was appealing to commonality.

So, if you’re partying with a Southerner, it’s best to show some Southern pride and drink the Jack Daniels that’s been handed to you and not insist on a Manhattan.

The fact is that both parties do this.

In the South some Democrats distance themselves from aspects of their party and party members that they don’t think go over well with their constituency. For example, I recall a commercial about a Democratic candidate saying he wasn’t like Hillary Clinton, and that Demcorats around here think differently.

There is no overt southern strategy. Candidates simply try to do things that they think will get them elected.
In another thread, I expressed skepticism that the Republican party was generally bigoted, but I also expressed openness as to the possibility.

A serious accusation demands serious documentation, does it not?

If one wishes to make the assertion, it needs to be backed up.

Therefore I offered the following:

There are 51 Republican Senators in the Senate.

How many of them are racists, bigots, or have run racist campaigns?

Lets stick to the Senate for now, since there have been recent elections and that’s a good enough pool of people that if the party was generally bigoted you would expect to see evidence of it in such a large and powerful group of Republicans.

I would suspect that there’s probably 2-3, in there, and I’d suspect that there’s probably about that many on the Democratic side, as well.

This challenge has been completely ignored.

I would think that’s significant.

I am Republican. If you are saying I am supporting an agenda of bigotry than that means that I am either tacitly or openly a bigot.

To say such a thing without proof or reason is a mark of bigotry itself in my mind.

So, I repeat the challenge. If yoyu believe and state that the Repbulicans are generally bigoted, please put up or shut in this thread.


This part is more interesting. Why all of a sudden have charges of Republican bigotry been growing?

One would think that my party’s strong reaction to Lott’s comments would suggest otherwise.

My hypothesis is that the Democrats are very concerned about their recent loss. They way Giulliani garned support among black voters in NYC for his handling of 9/11 was alarming. Bush’s strong reaction to lot was alarming.

These things may mean the Republicans are gaining ground in black demographics which have long been almost the exclusive property of the Democratic party. Republicans are courting the black vote. They are appealing to the black vote, and they are beginning to get the black vote.
I saw this interesting piece.

http://www.coradpress.com/lyrics_ldar.htm

Republican Rap!

The Democrats want to protect it. So, among some Democrats we are seeing an interesting permutation. They are crying “Southern Strategy,” and saying that there’s a secret agenda of racism in the Republican party. They are doing this to protect the black vote.

Ironically, such a reaction is bigoted in it’s own right.
I would like to limit discussion to 3 interrelated questions.

  1. Are the Republicans generally bigoted as can be demonstrated by an analysis of the current Senators and their campaigns as I’ve described above.

  2. Is the Demcoratic party crying "bigot!’ at Repbulicans simply as a strategy to protect it’s voting block.

  3. If two is “yes.” Isn’t that a bigoted and racist strategy?

I was unaware that the Southern Strategy was implicitly racist. (Which is not to say that there are no people who picture it in the way you described, Scylla.) I had thought that the Southern Strategy was simply the tailoring of a number of issues (“family values” for example) that would resonate in the South so as to wrest the South (with its increasing populations, especially in Texas, Florida, Georgia, and, to a lesser extent, the Carolinas), away from its 100+ year lock by the Democrats.

Just to get the ball rolling,

“Your” party’s reaction to Lott’s comments was merely “Let’s shut him up before he blows the lid off of the underlying racism that exists in our party before it get out of hand.”

“Your” party didn’t oust him because of his sentiments.

If one were to generalize, one could say that Republicans, in general, are more conservative(whatever that means) than most Democrats. Many racists self-identify with conservative principles and conservative catchphrases. They just don’t seem to chase after “liberal” agendas.

I’m a very liberal Democrat, and I have seen my share of bogus Liberal Democrats. Some are racist in real life.

They’re pandering, whether done by a Republican in the South, or a Democrat talking to African-Americans in the North, using catchphrases that appeal to hatred or biggotry.

Tomndeb:

That’s what I thought the Southern Strategy was. I’m seeing it being used differently.
Samclem:

Thanks, but I see that you’ve actually ignored the part where I ask you to prove your assertions. Your opinion as to why Lott was treated as he was is useless in this debate.

If you belive Republicans are bigoted in their strategy or their agenda, you will need to demonstrate that assertion or simply be full of shit.

I’ve provided the means for you to do so. Please do so, or go away.

As I mentioned (and you didn’t quite catch) I would like to limit the discussion to the three questions I’ve asked.

If you want to rag on Repbulicans without backing up your words, go elsewhere please.

** Scylla ** you beat me to it. I was planning on asking (not debating as I know very little on this) if there was indeed a Southern strategy.

It is hypothesized by some in the media (Clinton made a remark to this effect too) that the Republican attempt to wrest control over the Southern states from the Democrats has involved appealing to racist sentiments of the white majority. From the little I read on the web, Nixon initiated what was called “positive polarization” where he appealed to the South by promising inaction or gradual action on race-related issues. (Is this verifiable?)

First off, we need some data on the power shift in the South. Apart from Republicans winning the House majority in many decades, it would be interesting to see an actual shift in power across time starting with the late 60s.

If such a shift does exist, then one needs to find reasons to explain it. One such reason could be this “strategy” which amongst other things could be racist appeal.

We also need to know if Democrats have used it to their advantage too. Politicians will be politicians. I vaguely remember a thread on Mark Pryor, a Democrat (I believe he won) whose campaign sounded pretty coded to me.

Bottomline, we need a lot of data to analyze this, including data on existing Representatives and their campaigns, and am sighing at this very thought!

May be someone can chime in and help me out.

Scylla. You spend 5000 words setting up your three questions. And if someone calls you on an assertion you make in setting up your “three interrelated questions”, you decry what’s said as not gemane to your biased ground rules. You get to talk to your hearts content about side issues. I can’t.

Can you “prove” your assertion that your party is not racist because they reacted to Lott’s statements by removing him from his position of power? Of course not.

I apologize for not responding to your three questions.

It’s not Scylla’s responsibility to prove that Republicans are not racist. He’s not making the assertion that they are.

It’s your job to prove your assertion, sam, since you seemingly believe that racism is part and parcel of the Republican strategy.

Prove it, or be silent.

Scylla -

To question 1, an answer might be that the GOP attacts (probably unfairly) it’s share of bigots. Does the GOP desire this? Of course not. But parties can’t turn away voters, even of the unsavory kind.

As far demonstrating that the GOP in the senate is bigoted as defined only by your multipage epic novel, well, since you’ve limited the argument to only the facts you define, no. Happy?

Now, if you like, I’ll write a 10000 word diatribe that exposes the G.W. Bush as a Scientologists and Egyptian space-travelers, and you can only agree or disagree based on what I have asserted. Kay?

  1. No, not in my opinion.

  2. Perhaps.

Are we done?

You’ve been pushing this particular idea in multiple ways in multiple threads, despite having been repeatedly corrected on it. Once again, for the record. We are NOT saying that “somehow the Republican party has an agenda of bigotry.”

That’s a lie and you know it. But if you addressed the actual argument you’d have a tough time, so as usual, you create a strawman instead.

What the republican party has is an agenda of making racists and bigots feel welcome. They make of point of not criticising bigots, and of visibly using rhetoric that implies that bigotry is a benign and normal way of thinking. This is the essence of the ‘Southern strategy’. (Well, that, and the fact that Nixon promised not to enforce civil rights laws and actually kept the promise).

Even Dubya, who certainly doesn’t seem to be a racist, was still willing to show up a racist university and speak respectfully to them about their moral character.

He also put racist and homophobe John Ashcroft in charge of enforcing civil rights laws. Defend that if you can.

I don’t see how you can claim that there was any negative reaction by the Republican party to Lotts comments. They did make him majority leader. Lott was only repeating what he said 20 years earlier. I think it is pretty clear that the only reason why the Republican party reacted this time was due to the media’s exposure of Lott’s comments.

Reactions like Bush’s after Lott stepped down don’t really help either.

That doesen’t seem negative to me.

Racism is not limited to party, on that we can certainly agree.

Does the Republican party have an “agenda” of bigotry? Certainly not a written one. Perhaps an unwritten one? Maybe an unspoken one? I think this is asking your debating opponents to prove a negative. It sets the bar too high.

I’d like to reconsider the question as: do Republicans appeal to prejudice and bigotry (slightly different things) in order to advance their agenda. I believe the answer is yes. One of the chief tools they use, and not just in the traditional South, but everywhere, is code words. Reagan was fond of throwing about the term “welfare queens” to conjure up images of fat black women with a passel of children sponging off of good working Americans.

“States rights” was used by the same crowd for many decades in support of Jim Crow laws to keep “undesirables” in their place. In the 2000 election the Confederate Naval Battle Flag (the Stars and Bars, which I’ll just call the Confederate Flag later) became a big issue, as well as the Bob Jones University speaking engagements among the Republican two contestants for the nomination. One of the candidates made a point being against both, the other for. The one in favor made the argument (through proxies) that it was a matter of “heritage”, “states rights”, “history” and “tradition”.

Bob Jones University for many years refused to admit non-whites, and now only does so with a prohibition against mixed dating. This anti-miscegenation position is nothing but racist garbage, and despicable. That any candidate would appear on this campus to appeal for votes was nothing but a blatant signal to racists that he was their man. There are other colleges in the Carolinas. There are other conservative colleges where there is no question of racism. The methods of negative campaigning between the Republican candidates in this race distinctly showed a strong desire to suck up to people with ideas of racial purity.

The next issue is the Confederate Flag. A flag, of course, is a symbol. In this case, it began as a symbol of to identify Confederate Navy vessels. Vessels battling to secede from the Union, a Union divided over the issue of slavery, a profoundly genocidal and immoral institution, and a series of failed compromises, such as the Missouri Compromise of 1850. The only real right being fought over was the right of a state to have slaves, and to not be outnumbered in the US Senate by Senators from non-slave states for fear of what might happen. After the war, the flag was adopted by the Ku Klux Klan, which became a very prominent organization in various cycles until it was recently crushed by litigation. The argument that it was a symbol of heritage of the brave men who were fighting for their own non-slave farms is a bit misleading. Yes, many Confederate soldiers were extraordinarily brave, and were in their own minds fighting to protect their homes. They didn’t have slaves. But the Stars and Bars was not the flag the very vast majority fought under. It was not the Confederate Flag, it was not the Confederate army flag. It was a Naval Battle flag. It was a beautiful design, however, symmetrical and colorful and simple. It was popularized by the KKK, not the Confederate States of America. It’s true heritage has nothing to do with brave soldiers. It is a symbol of treason, slavery, racism, defeat and hatred. Defending this flag is attacking the United States. It should be to loyal Americans what the Nazi swastika and flag are to Jews.

It is true that political campaigns are run differently depending on the region they are run in. They are exercises in marketing, and you must know the demographics. A catchphrase like “The South’s going to do it again!” may well be popular down South with “ole boys”. But there is nothing good about them. At least not to those of use who are not ignorant. Educated people understand that the “it” they are referring to is the Civil War, or as the “ole boys” like to call it: the War of Northern Aggression. And the issue fought over was slavery, and more recently, Jim Crow laws. Of course this is racist pandering, which is the commonality being appealed to.

To suggest that it is the equivalent of JFK saying Berlin is free, free people everywhere must turn their eyes toward Berlin, where the threat of communist tyranny was quite real and that “I am a Berliner” was showing solidarity, not an appeal to racist revisionism.

When in Rome (Georgia or Italy), of course you enjoy the local fruits of the grain and the vine. When in Hershey, PA, you eat chocolate, and the local version. In Dearborn, you drive a Ford, in Little Italy, you have cannoli. All politicians do this. But that is not the same as going to Munich and wrapping yourself in the Nazi party flag (which is illegal in Germany). Nor is it the same as wrapping yourself in the flag of the KKK saying it is a fine local issue.

American political parties do not require allegiance to a platform to join or retain membership, even among elected officials. You register to vote and may identify with a party. That party is stuck with you. You cannot be thrown out. We do not have a parliamentary system that gives the party any control over the conscience of its elected members. This is in sharp contrast to the parliamentary system as found in the UK for example, where it doesn’t matter what the personal opinions of the non-cabinet ministers are, and if the cabinet level ministers mouth off out of line, they are shit-canned by their sponsoring party in the coalition. In the US, the legislature is a separate branch from the executive and is a shifting coalition of 535 people with opinions, all of whom must be molly coddled.

But that doesn’t change the fact that a Democrat or Republican who panders to his/her constituents by saying he/she doesn’t like or isn’t like Hillary Clinton is a pandering scum. That is playing to people’s prejudices. Sen. Clinton is a strong, intelligent and successful woman. Saying one isn’t like Hillary is the same use of code words to suggest that equality for women is wrong, that women should be kept barefoot and pregnant. If that wasn’t the case, why wouldn’t they say they are like a Republican (or Democratic) woman they admire in the same breath? “I’m not like Hillary Clinton, I’m like Condolezza Rice or Eleanor Roosevelt.” Because it is an appeal to hatred. “You hate Hillary, and I am not like her.”

Does this constitute a Southern strategy, or is it merely pandering to get elected? I think this is a false dichotomy. Politicians will frequently do whatever they think is necessary to get elected. But not all of them trot out racist and sexist code garbage. Is this traditionally the Republican “Southern Strategy”? No, it is a tactic used by some candidates, and eschewed by others. The “Southern Strategy” as originally developed by Nixon for the Republicans was to stay silent on race issues (Wallace helped immensely here), and then when he was in office, advance civil rights causes. While Nixon was personally a bizarre racist and Anti-Semite, his public policy was anti-racist and anti-bigotry. Trent Lott could have told all the bigoted jokes he wanted if he had the votes to prove he was good for civil rights. His constant votes against civil rights did him in. Another example is Lyndon Johnson. He was a champion of civil rights on the same order as Martin Luther King, Jr., and when it came to getting civil rights passed, arguably the leading political figure in American history. But he told racist jokes that would make Strom Thurmond blush.

I remember the thread where the original poster was open to the possibility that the Republican party was bigoted, but despite protestations to the contrary, this was a rather hidden point in his posts. Liberal Democrats like me see the Republican party as the party of prejudiced old white guys for a reason. Why do we feel that the Republicans are closet bigots?

Well, their voting records. The NAACP has them on-line at: http://www.naacp.org/work/washington_bureau/107thcongress.pdf

They detail which bills and what kind of votes they had wanted, and grade the legislator strictly on that basis. Not a single Republican Senator got a rating over 48% (Spectre and Chafee), with Jeffords coming in at 76%. Scroll further down for house results. No Democratic Senator scored less than 50%. These actions speak louder than words. As far as the leading organization representing racial minority interests report card goes, the interpretation I make is clear: the Republicans are far more racist than I had thought before starting this paragraph.

This is the serious documentation you have been looking for to switch to Democrat from Republican. Honest to goodness, we do not raise taxes more, we do balance budgets, we are pro-business. I in fact am a member of my local chamber of commerce. (I am too modest, I am on the board of directors, and so are other Democrats.)

Sorry, Jeffords at 67%. IANAD, but I type like one.

Looking over to the House side, I see that a Rep by the name of Morella earned a 61%, making him the highest ranking Rep in either House (double check me there).

The lowest ranking Democrat was none other than Trafficant, with a 27% rating, the only F among Dems in either house, although a number of Dems earned D grades and C grades.

Are the rank and file Republicans aware of this record?

Our hero Lott scored a mere 12% along with Thurmond and Fred Thompson (movie star) of Tennesse. It was lower than Jesse Helms. Nothing in the House was lower than 15 to 17 percent.

**And now, a bold challenge to the Republican rank and file:

  1. Admit that your current party is racist, and by continuing to support your party, you are at best complicit in their racism.

  2. Come up with a legitimate group that has a record of fighting for the civil rights of racial minorities like the NAACP for a significant period of time that gives the Republican legislators significantly better grades. No fake front groups, must have real achievements. Must not be like the Log Cabin Republicans (aka, Queers for Closets). Hmmm, Uncle Tom’s Log Cabin Republicans, now there’s an idea!

  3. Attack the NAACP as a front for the Democratic Party and genuinely interested in minority rights.

**

You are correct about the ‘front for the Democratic Party’ bit at least…

Well so far, none of the accusers are able to follow directions with the exception of sqeegee.

The most substantive link comes from I am sparticus with his voting records.

What this actually tells us is what the NAACP thinks about politicans records on certain issues. Sparticus has not put it together into a general indictment of bigotry, and it’s not what was asked for.

Then we have someone else saying that it’s not that the Republicans are bigoted, but they don’t turn away bigots.
I covered this in my OP. People want to get elected. You cannot exclude a vote based on who made it. Both Democrats and Republicans use language designed to appeal to their constituencies in their campaigns.

I’ll shortly get my cites of Democratic campaign examples of appealing to (or not exluding bigots.)

Tejota ignores the actual questions and goes on about Republicans being bigoted.

Does anybody actually want to systematicaly back up their assertions?

If you do not like my Senate suggestion, I open to other forms of systematic proof about the current Republican leadership.

Systematic proof is what is necessary to validate the assertions, not generalized statements.

Democrats disavowing their party to get elected in the South

http://www.voy.com/112825/135.html

**

Of course not. Proof needs to be provided by those making the positive assertion.

No apology necessary, responding to them would suffice.

tejota:

Prove it. Support it. That’s a weak-assed mealy mouthed statement designed to give you some kind of justification for attacking Republicans. Demonstrate that it’s true, or again you are full of shit.

Why the hell should I defend it? All you’ve done is make an accusatory statement. I don’t have to go out and prove that Aschcroft isn’t a racist or a homobphobe. You have to prove he is.

And in order for this to be a valid point in the context of this debate, you would not only have to prove that Aschroft is a racist and a homophobe, but that Bush nominated him for AG based on this. Then you have the problem that he was confirmed by Congress which comprises both Republicans and Democrats. Wouldn’t that open you up to a counterargument about Democratic collusion in racism and homophobia?

This is the thread where you put up or shut up. Please do so.

[quote]

Why limit it to the Senate? You see this sort of thing in state politics all the time.

For example, in the Georgia gubernatorial election, Republican Sonny Perdue ran on the Confederate flag. Democratic governor Roy Barnes had removed the emblem from the Georgia flag (a courageuos and proper thing to do, IMHO), and it cost him his job.

Perdue campaigned on a promise to hold a referendum to bring the Confederate flag back. He sent out fliers to voters, with the slogan “Remember who took away your flag!!!” Significantly, these fliers only went out to rural voters. Now why do you suppose he didn’t send them to voters in Atlanta?

A similar scenario played out in South Carolina did it not? Wasn’t the Democratic governor defeated in part because of his role in removing the Confederate flag from the dome of the state capitol. (Any South Carolina dopers who can check in on this?)

Furthermore, you trivialize the issue, Scylla. It is not just a question of making statements like “The South’s gonna do it again.” It is a pattern of such things as speaking in front of groups like the Council of Conservative Citizens (the CCC), as Lott did. This group has been described (aptly, IMO) as Klansmen in suits. The very act of speaking in front of such a group sends a message. Slightly less offensive are the Sons of Confederate Veterans. As a descendant of Confederate veterans myself, I wouldn’t have a problem with such an organization, except that as it currently exists, it is primarily a club for people with, shall we say, “regressive” views on matters of race. (Not all SCV members are this way, but a disturbing number of them are.) When a politician appears before this group, or publishes an article in their magazine praising the organization, it sends a message.

I cannot count the number of derisive comments I’ve heard from Republican politicians about the NAACP or “people in Atlanta.” (Sorry I didn’t document them all for use in this thread.)

Don’t tell me this sort of bullshit isn’t an appeal to racists. I’ve seen enough of it to know better.

Tejota has it exactly right. It’s not that Southern Republican politicians are racist, necessarily; it’s that they want the votes of racists. They can’t openly espouse racism, for fear of alienating more moderate constituents, so they make gestures, speak in code, let the racists know with a wink that Republicans are in their corner.

Sparticus:

I appreciate the offering of hard evidence as regards your link. I will examine it closely and respond in detail.