Dating: how do I overcome the stigma of being in my 40s?

[Sunspace]

I'm in the dating pool, and I am having difficulty meeting women. I believe that part of this difficulty is because I have just turned 40: it seems to me that men over the age of 40 are perceived as being Significantly Older and therefore undesireable*.

My question: what can I do to improve myself and make myself more attractive, in order to compensate for this?

The obvious answer is to make a lot more money than I am now, and acquire expensive toys. But that is not an option in the near-term future. I am working on getting into better physical shape, but that's going to take a while.

What else can I do? Buy better clothes? Learn to dance? I'm already taking French...

I must admit that I've had more success meeting women over 40 than under.

_{*Interestingly, a number of people I've talked to said that there is not such a stigma against older men in Europe. Could this be a result of North America's marketing emphasis on youth?}

[Profane]

How old these women that consider you "significantly older?"

[Missy2U]

The obvious answer is to make a lot more money than I am now, and acquire expensive toys. But that is not an option in the near-term future. I am working on getting into better physical shape, but that's going to take a while.

First thing, if the above was not tongue in cheek, I'd suggest looking for a better caliber of woman. There are those of us who aren't into all the "trappings" as you've described them - we prefer real, honest, good, truthful, caring PEOPLE - not their "stuff".

AS a woman, I wouldn't date a man under 40. I'm in my 30's. Perhaps it's not your age - maybe you're not looking in the right places?

[StGermain]

Why aren't you interested in the over-40 women? Perhaps you're trying to market yourself to the wrong crowd.

StG

[Dung Beetle]

I'm 33, my SO is 51. If there's a stigma about older men, I guess I missed the memo. I think old guys are hot.

[Indefatigable]

Stigma? Date people who are also in their forties.

And don't stigmatise women who are older than you by refusing to date them on principle.

[Dogzilla]

My advice would be: don't try to date women in their 20s. I think that's where the stigma, if it really exists, comes from. I'm in my mid-30s. I'd be happy to meet someone who's 40ish and established in their life. I banned 20-somethings from my dating pool a couple years ago.

To improve yourself and make yourself more attractive:
• Make sure you don't live with your mother.
• Make sure you're not 300 pounds overweight and that you bathe daily.
• Make sure you're a good conversationalist and don't turn everything to yourself.
• If you were married at one time, do not talk about the ex all the time. Do not bring up former relationships within the first three dates.
• Think about your "target market" -- exactly who are you looking for? Then go hang out where those people do... When you find women with similar interests, it's much easier to break the ice and start a good conversation.
• Focus on making new friends and forget about sex. Then, just before you get stuck in the Friend Zone, make your big move.
• Finally, examine your own standards. 30-40 year old women rarely look like Victoria's Secret models. Some of us do, but your odds of finding one... Are you looking to get laid with some 20-yo hottie? If that's your goal, then maybe you do need to acquire some expensive toys. Preferably the vibrating kind! (heh)

The "obvious" answer of "making a lot more money... and acquire expensive toys..."

:sigh:

Do you seriously think that's important? Maybe to a 20-ish year old, but to someone your own age, that should be totally irrelevant.

Anecdote: recently I was e-mailing with a potential dating candidate I "met" through an online dating service. In his second e-mail to me, he made a point to tell me what model Mercedes he drove. I asked him why he felt the need to point that out, as if I give a damn what he drives. I never did get a satisfactory answer out of him -- he's a lawyer, which might contribute to his evasiveness. Needless to say, he never got a face to face meeting. I really hate the assumption that all single women care about is material excess.

My point here, is just be yourself. Assuming you're intelligent, fun or funny, hold down a steady job and don't live with your mommy, you should have no problem. With any woman you meet, when you decide you might be interested in dating, try to focus on her -- not yourself. Ask her questions about herself to show her that you are interested in [i]who she is[/]. Try to avoid sending the message that the only thing you are interested in is getting laid.

And, what's so wrong with women over 40?

[curly chick]

Ahh, another 40 year old man who thinks he should be a babe magnet for teenagers and twenty year olds.



What's wrong wih the the women your own age?
Why do you think they are too old for you?
And given that you do think 40 year old women are too old for you, a 40 year old man, why would you imagine that anyone significantly younger than you wouldn't tar you with the same brush as you use?

[Sunspace]

Argghh. I wasn't clear enough. Sorry. I am NOT looking for a 'twenty-year-old hottie'--and the female stereotypes flogged by the media are far from the top of my list of desireability.

My desired age range is between 30 and 50. LunaSea, the women who consider me to be Significantly Older were in their early thirties.

But I'm also wondering about children. My impression is that it's dangerous for women in their forties to have children. If I'm wrong, please enlighten me, and I can stop worrying about that.

Perhaps I should look for a woman who already has kids...

Last weekend I had a date with a very attractive 43-year-old. But, as usual, there was no 'click', and I expect I'll never see her again. The remarks about expensive toys are just pent-up frustration...

[Baby Fish Mouth]

Hmmm. Are 30-something women actually telling you that you're too old for them? Or is this just something you're assuming because it didn't work out? Also, keep in mind that sometimes people find any old excuse to avoid another date, usually because they don't feel the "click" you referred to.

[Sunspace]

Well, there are an awful lot of women on Lavalife who are in their mid-thirties, and specify 40 as too old. So it never even gets to the dating stage.

[belladonna]

Originally posted by Sunspace
Perhaps I should look for a woman who already has kids...

Give it a try. Us single moms can have tons of trouble finding quality guys who are willing to even look twice once they hear about the kiddos. It could be a mutually beneficial arrangement.

[puddleglum]

Sit down and write some funny and arrogant comebacks to the age question. The age thing is a filter, once you have gotten past that wall, it shouldn't be an issue.

[An Arky]

Heck, most guys aren't even worth a damn till they reach 40. Many women will back me up on that. I think if you broaden your horizons a little (more than online matchmaking), you might find women who appreciate what a 40 year old man has to offer.





An Arky

Who's 40 btw...

[Sunspace]

Broaden my horizons, how, An Arky?

[msmith537]

Hey here's a novel concept...LIE!!!

Yeah..we guys sometimes mislead about a lot of stuff. Age, money, careers, whatever.

A general rule of thumb is that your ideal woman should be half your age plus 7 years. ie at 18, you should date someone who is 16. At 30 - 22, at 40 - 27. This helps account for the fact that women mature faster than men (mentally and physically).


Just my observation, but it seems that as people get older, dating becomes less about fun and hanging out with someone and having sex with them to a desparate search to "find someone" before they reach some arbitrary age cutoff.

[Sunspace]

I never saw that formula as the way to find the age of an 'ideal' woman, msmith537; I saw it as the [/i]lower age limit[i]. I looked at it as a shorthand for reducing the likelihood of cultural differences between the members of a potential couple. And I'm quite aware that it may work in the other direction as well.

But I won't lie about it. Yeah, I'm older, balding, and I've got a spare tire. Deal with it. Would you want to go out with a liar?

[Duke]

Originally posted by msmith537
A general rule of thumb is that your ideal woman should be half your age plus 7 years. ie at 18, you should date someone who is 16. At 30 - 22, at 40 - 27. This helps account for the fact that women mature faster than men (mentally and physically).

Blech. I'm 30 and I can't even imagine dating a 22-year-old woman. Never mind the fact that any 22-year-old would run a mile on finding out I was divorced anyway.

Sunspace, just look at it as the French would, that you are a 29-year-old with eleven years' experience.

[Baby Fish Mouth]

msmith537, lying is absolutely the worst thing to do. The truth about your age or career is going to come out eventually...and then you look ten times worse for having lied about it.

And as for the desperate search to find someone before an arbitrary age cutoff...I sense that too, and it's certainly a shame. There are people in their 20s who seem far more mature than their years, and people in their 30s and 40s who are still emotionally stunted. Age is just not a concrete determinant of character. Neither is money or career, for that matter.

[Harriet the Spry]

I was always significantly creeped out by older guys. Then, at 29, I married a guy 12 years older. We're still happy! For me, when it was the right person and right setting I really didn't have the misgivings.

I think meeting someone older is more comfortable if you meet in a mixed group of friends of various ages. When I met an older man in a bar/dating scene, it was much more off-putting. Any indication that he was interested in me _because_ of my youth was the kiss of death.

It seems like 35-40+ year old single moms would be a good "target market," since it sounds like you like kids. Maybe help coach a sports team or tutor or something. Not necessarily to hit on women you meet directly, but to expand your network.

This last piece of advice is based on my husband and I meeting at church. Whatever you believe, find a community that shares your beliefs and be part of it. If you're Christian, that's easy, it's church. But there are also Unitarian, Ethical Culture, and other groups. For me, it is the fact that in these communities you spend time talking about beliefs and values at a non-superficial level that makes the difference. It's hard to make that connection and build trust over small talk like sports, movies and music.

[Krisfer the Cat]

Gimme ONE good reason to run up there! Yeah I know you are willing to scare the shit outta me on top of the glass floored tower. What woman wouldn't fall for that?

I was going to say quite dating until you were 50.. then 40 wouldn't be so difficult... But I decided not to be lynched this week.

But in reading through this thread I think there is quite a lot of good advice in here. But definately look at the single mom angle. I kinda sorta want another kid.. but I'd be almost 60 before the kid graduated high school.. and I am sure that a lot of women think the same way.


Ech, I can't think tonite... tune in tomorrow and watch me mangle another post...

*slinks off to watch Futurama*

[elfbabe]

Originally posted by msmith537 A general rule of thumb is that your ideal woman should be half your age plus 7 years.

I always thought that rule was to determine the youngest person you could date without looking like a Dirty Old Person. I think that interpretation makes a bit more sense, personally.

[msmith537]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by msmith537 A general rule of thumb is that your ideal woman should be half your age plus 7 years.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by elfbabe
I always thought that rule was to determine the youngest person you could date without looking like a Dirty Old Person. I think that interpretation makes a bit more sense, personally. [/b]

Did I not say IDEAL woman?

[Sunspace]

Harriet The Spry said:
It seems like 35-40+ year old single moms would be a good "target market," since it sounds like you like kids. Maybe help coach a sports team or tutor or something. Not necessarily to hit on women you meet directly, but to expand your network.

_{bolding mine}
Oddly, as part of an exploration of career change, my job counselor and I investigated my tutoring gifted kids in computer art. While in the long term I think it would be a Good Thing for me to do, as a "job" in the near term it would be next to impossible for me. That just means I'd have to ease into it through social connection, of course, rather than just taking out some ads. Check back in five years.

People have said to me occasionally that I might make a good father. Given the lack of serious relationships in my life, I initially found that surprising, but now I think it may have to do with the fact that I take kids seriously and try to respect them, rather than just treating them as annoyances and/or fashion accessories. When I go to visit my friends who have kids, I usually end up on the floor playing Legos. There's definitely a frustrated kid in me who wants to give the kind of support he didn't get in childhood.

Whatever you believe, find a community that shares your beliefs and be part of it.

Done. But the frustrating part of it is that this community in my city is desperately short of women...

Krisfer The Cat said:
But definately look at the single mom angle.

Looking...

[Cervaise]

Originally posted by Sunspace
this community in my city is desperately short of women...

Mars?

[Eva Luna]

Originally posted by msmith537
[b]Hey here's a novel concept...LIE!!!

Yeah..we guys sometimes mislead about a lot of stuff. Age, money, careers, whatever.

Sunspace, don't listen to a word he says. The discovery of any lie is pretty inevitable if your prospect makes it past a couple of dates, and if I found out a guy had lied to me about anything of any significance in an attempt to meet some fucked-up image of what he thought 30-something women wanted, he'd be dropped like a hot potato. Just what kind of a shallow bitch did he think I was, anyway? Assuming (and from your previous posts, I think I can assume this) you're not looking for some airheaded bimbo Barbie type, why would you bother trying to market yourself to someone who would be swayed by something as shallow as what kind of car you drive?

Yes, if a guy has made it to 40 and is still single, I would ask some (hopefully) subtle, but probing questions about why. There's a difference between a guy who has never had a committed relationship and is unemployed and living in his mom's garage, and a guy who maybe spent significant chunks of time with one or more women, but decided they weren't right for him.

But hey, I'm single, too; does than mean I'm damaged goods? I sure as hell hope not!

Eva Luna, age 35
(maybe we need another 30-something flirt thread...)

[mouthbreather]

Originally posted by msmith537
A general rule of thumb is that your ideal woman should be half your age plus 7 years.

I can't wait until I am 102 and then I will be banging hot 58 year olds.

Sweet.

[ataraxy22]

Originally posted by mouthbreather
I can't wait until I am 102 and then I will be banging hot 58 year olds.

Sweet.

...and I look forward to meeting all the 107 year old hotties when I'm 200!

[Palewriter]

Probably the best way to solve the awful problem of being in your 40s is to hit 50.

"your ideal woman should be half your age plus 7 years"

This is idiotic. So at 54, I should be dating some 34-year-old? I hate people in their 30s. They're so OLD and filled with hangups. Give me a hot woman in her 50s anytime. Oh, wait, I've already got one.

- PW

[improbably blonde]

Jack Benny stopped counting at 39. Worked for him.

[Duckster]

Originally posted by Sunspace
Well, there are an awful lot of women on Lavalife who are in their mid-thirties, and specify 40 as too old. So it never even gets to the dating stage.

Not trying to be cruel but the age factor seems to be more of you then the women.

Perhaps a step back and some self-evaluation is in order. What you looking looking for, really?! You wanna get laid? Check out the local bar scene and stay until closing. You want to play the field? Ask friends and co-workers.

Are you looking for a real relationship? Try studying women in similar situations. Women take care of themselves, lead their lives and go with the flow. Living your life a a stable I-can-take-care-of-myself adult really does work. Sure it's lonely and you may feel desperate at times. I think you'll find many women feel the same way.

The key is, do you want to date or do you need to date? The former will have your cup runneth over with dates; the latter and you'll die of thirst with fresh water all around you.

[Dung Beetle]

I hate people in their 30s. They're so OLD and filled with hangups.

Hey! I resemble that remark!

[don't ask]

Look mate you're only 22 in hex.

Don't ever shy away from your disadvantages imagined or real because they'll come back to bite you on the ass. Hell you're not a convicted felon (that I know of) just get it out in the open and fast. Just don't take it too seriously. After that it's out of your hands.

[don't ask]

Sorry you've aged - 28 in hex.

[ratatoskK]

Date someone your own age.

[gruelin1]

put some dye in your hair. That'll make you feel young and attractive.

j/k

[Yumanite]

25 year old woman here. I wouldn't be phased at all about dating a 40 something guy (I actually am), providing a few conditions:

1. Attitude. If you think 40 makes you 'too old', it shows and is unattractive.

2. Fitness. You don't have to be an athlete, but if you try to keep in shape you will look better, have more energy, and improve your attitude (see 1).

3. Don't letch. It's icky for anyone to do it, but a middle age guy who letches on younger women and turns his nose up at those near his age is hypocritical as well as nasty. Nothing wrong with flirting, mind you, but if you don't know the difference, you're in trouble.

4. If you are losing hair, please please don't try to use a combover or toupee or some such thing. Wear it short, and, if not proud, at least not ashamed. Shave it if you've got a nice skull. Likewise, If you are developing a new gut as part of your proud transition to middle years, please don't try to pretend it isn't there by continuing to wear the same old clothes. Likewise, don't decide in a fit of despondency (see 1) that you will never look good again and therefore lose interest in dressing yourself well or grooming. Other badges of age may be starting to show, too. Don't fret over them.

That's my advise in a nutshell. Not all of it may apply to you, and even if it does, it may not be good, but I hope it helps.

[misstee]

Originally posted by Dung Beetle
If there's a stigma about older men, I guess I missed the memo. I think old guys are hot.

Right on.



misstee-- who likes 'em old enough to know what they are doing.

[mipiace]

Here is my take...lot's of other people have made some really valid points above. But I'll add...

I am 36 and occasionally date a guy a few yers younger but most run up to 10 years older so that would defnitely encompass the early 40s you mention. Sure most guys by that age are divorced but if a guy h adn't been married I wouldn't i mmediately disqualify him. I would hope that he had been in at least one or two serious relationships in his life. If not, I'd be concerned he might be a player or some kind of commitment phobe.

No it isn't about the kind of toys he has or car he drives at all. It is about how he respects me and himself. The way he takes care of himself shows a lot. If I get into a serious relationship, I want a man who is going to be around to share the years with me so taking care of his health is a plus.

I have kids already...not particularly looking for a new step dad. But someone who understands that they have to share my time and attention with them is important. A man can't be too demanding and high maintenance. I'm not as available to be "on call" at his beck and call as a 20 year old, I have other obligations.

Those are just a few additions that came to my mind.