This was touched on in a couple of threads, but kind of died on the vine since it was a sidetrack. So I thought I’d start a new thread:
I’ve been seeing a lot of invective leveled at Hillary, and I would like those who hate her to explain why. I’d appreciate as much specificity as possible. For example, don’t just make a vague reference to Pres. Clinton’s health-care proposal, but explain exactly what was wrong with it, and how Hillary was responsible for what was wrong. Or if you objected to her being involved in politics when she was First Lady, explain exactly how that would make her a poor choice for President or Vice-President now. Or if it’s something she’s done more recently in her political career, tell us what it was. I’m hoping to avoid vagueness such as “She’s too liberal”, and the like.
To be honest, I haven’t followed her career all that closely, so here’s your chance to convince me that she’s a lousy politician and would make a terrible President and/or Vice-President. Just for fun, I’ll assume that people hate her for purely partisan reasons, and/or because they are men who are threatened by a strong woman. Your job is to convince me otherwise.
Let’s travel back in time to the year 2000… Well, I was none too thrilled to hear about her coming to NY to run for the open Senate position. I considered her rather a carpetbagger, not a New Yorker, only coming here to my great state to live because of a statutory requirement. I’ve been a New Yorker all my life, born here, educated here, I’ve lived in the NYC suburbs, Albany area, Rochester, (now NYC, but not then) and crisscrossed the state so many times I couldn’t think to count, my roots here run deep, and it pisses me off that a damn tourist is going to “represent” me in the Senate. If she had a better chance to win a Senate seat in Kansas, she’d have moved there instead.
On top of that, I did not see anything in her personal history to suggest that she was in any way qualified for a Senate position. Other than her association with WJC, what experience in politics and governance does she have? I checked out her bio, and the bio of the other NY Senator, Chuck Schumer at their respective senate websites. Her history says
That’s it for pre-2000, Chuck?
Note the difference. One is a lifetime NYer, whose been pursuing a career in politics for the last 30 years, the other… Born in Chicago, lived in Arkansas and DC, married to a prominent politician, just moved here 6 months ago to meet the legal residency requirements.
My dislike of her is beginning to soften, since I haven’t felt completely embarassed by her presence in the Senate, but the carpetbagging thing still grates on me.
The country would be a better place if the Senate was composed of farmers, accountants and teachers. I understand your point, but I fail to see the relevance. If she was not qualified, she wouldn’t have won, no?
Considering that Ashcroft lost a senate election to a dead guy, I’m not convinced that the voters take “qualifications” into account. Lots of people get elected on name recognition, so I don’t take a successful election to mean a person is qualified.
And, it’s true that things might be better if we had a lot more Regular Joes in the government, but I don’t think she fits that moniker either. She’s this weird conglomeration of being well connected politically, but not actually having been the person elected, nor having the responsibility of an appointed position.
Apropos of nothing, I am reminded of a bit from SNL’s “Weekend Update” segment from the time of Bill Clintons inauguration in 1992: “And, following the inaugural, Hillary Clinton will check into Walter Reed Hospital, where she will finally have her Rodham removed.”
It did get a laugh from the studio audience, for what that’s worth.
Hill always comes off to me as the stereotypical slimy, say-anything-to-gain-public-acceptance politician.
This was solidified when, during her Senate bid, she donned a Yankees hat and claimed to be “a life-long Yankee fan.”
Especially since I’d seen her wearing a Cubs hat a few years before, and saying how she was “a life-long Cubbie fan.” :rolleyes:
Add to this her smug, self-serving “It Takes a Village” attitude, and she comes off like the lovechild of Martha Stewart and Leona Helmsley, with political aspirations.
I greatly admired her until her recent “I intend to mug you” speech. I had thought that conservative claims about her communist leanings were deliberate exaggerations. As far as I’m concerned, she may as well have announced that she eats live babies.
Repealing tax cuts for the rich is a long, long way from communism, Liberal. In fact, it just barely qualifies as liberalism. In old FDR’s day, you weren’t a liberal unless you publicly acknowledged that the American tax system absolutely should not allow millionaires to exist at all. (No cite, but I’m sure I’ve read a period quote to that effect.)
Was your choice of username intended to convey irony?
Ashcroft didn’t lose to a dead guy, he lost to the dead guy’s wife, obvious sympathy vote. As for Hillary, I can’t stand her, and most other professional politicians as well, because they think we’re all so stupid that we’ll believe the dog doo they spoon feed us without thought. This is true on both sides of the political spectrum and the propogandists as well (Michael Moore has said this explicitly while speaking in Europe).
Thanks for a well thought-out and well presented answer. Maybe I’m over-generalizing, but I’ve noticed that here in California, conservatives are falling over themselves to get behind Schwarzenegger, even though the same criticism (no political experience) could be leveled at him. The “carpetbagger” charge doesn’t apply to him, of course, but as far as having less experience than his competitor, conservatives thought it was a plus in his case. Do you think there’s a double-standard going on here, or do you think I’m just assuming all conservatives are of like-mind when it isn’t warranted to think so?
Yeah. You’ve always been her biggest fan until this one slip up.
Your posting history has several other examples that suggest you have, well, less than the highest regard for her, but this one has a certain je ne sais quoi.
I’m comforted by my suspicion that you do not also “greatly admire” me.
His username used to be Libertarian. He changed it as the result of a disagreement as to the meaning of the word “liberal”, IIRC. I don’t think he’s trying to be ironic, although the result certainly is.
Well, can you blame her? I mean, really! You never call, you always expect her to be free on a Friday night with no warning whatsoever, when you’re with the popular crowd, you either ignore her or poke fun at her. And I know what you’ve been trying to talk her into and I can only say that in my day, no girl would have done that, and no young gentleman would have asked for it.
I don’t quite know why I don’t like her. Maybe soem part of the back of my head is still Republican. For one, I don’t trust her. She just screams “politician” - but on the other hand, she had the opportunity to get a huge following after Clinton’s affair, but she didn’t take it. So I guess I don’t understand her. She’s like a strange dog.
OTOH, I haven’t spent much time trying to understand her, so that may be self-fulfilling.
One thing I never understood is why so many people hate Chelsea. I mean, what the bloody hell did she ever do? How blindly partisan do you have to be to hate some guys kid, then go out of your way to make fun of her? (From recent pics, she seems to have magically filled out anyway, so I guess she gets the last laugh)
My impression is that most people didn’t like her because she refused to play the subservient wifey role. She’s educated, well-spoken, opinionated, and successful in her own right, which grates on those who still think a woman’s place is to be barefoot chattel.
She’s a carpetbagger? So what? King George I was born in MA and ran as a Texan. George II was born in CT and grew up in TX. She seems to be up on the NY issues, which is what is important.
She can’t be a lifelong fan of both the Yankees and the Cubs? Says who? Only diehard fans of either club. A poor reason to dislike someone.
