I Pit the Hatred of Hillary

The BBQ Pit
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I Pit the Irrational Hatred of Hillary.

I am not Pitting the ordinary hatred — “Hillary’s laugh sounds like a witch’s cackle” — “She had to murder Vince Foster because he knew too much” — et cetera. To paraphrase somebody, God must have loved stupid Americans becuase he made so many of them. In a country where 49% think that Trump would make a great President, it should be no surprise that 35% think Hillary fornicated with Satan; that Chelsea is the Devil’s Lesbian vampire spawn; and that Hillary spends $200,000 per month on skin-lightening creams to hide her own Kenyan birth.

No, I’m Pitting the Dopers who are smart enough to know Trump really is an abomination, and yet have so much irrational hatred for Hillary Clinton that they’re happy to work, directly or indirectly, for Trump victory.

Both Clintons are extremely intelligent. There’s not a single Doper denouncing them who has an IQ approaching either of theirs. Do you know how much money a smart lawyer can make in private practice? And yet both Clintons chose public service. Bill Clinton rose to become President of the United States; yet has always maintained that his own wife was more qualified than him. The Clintons collect royalties on the books they’ve written. Do their detractors think they should give all that money to charity and move to a trailer park? Is that what Dearest Trump does? They’re paid money for giving speeches? Should they negotiate those fees downward? ("$300,000 is too much! Can you just take me out for brunch afterward? I promise not to order the expensive lobster.")

One can quibble about “qualifications” for President. Eisenhower was “only” the 5-star General who commanded the 5 million soldiers who liberated Western Europe, but I think he was supremely qualified. John F. Kennedy and Barack Obama were among the least qualified ever, but are each judged to have done quite well. Unlike JFK, or GWB, or Obama, we’ve seen Hillary in action. She’s been a tireless advocate for children’s and women’s rights throughout her life, made good impressions in Arkansas and the White House, successfully fashioned bipartisan alliances in the Senate, and was a very successful Secretary of State admired around the world. Those who call her inexperienced have only contemptible ignorance.

Especially frightening is that I have no idea where all the hatred comes from, and neither do the Haters. I suspect it’s partly a “contact high” from all the right-wing Kool-Aid. “Well, maybe she didn’t need to kill the Libyan Ambassador because he had the inside scoop on the Vince Foster murder, but she could have personally ordered in the Seals if she weren’t busy at a lesbian soirée with campaign donors.”

The usual charge by the idiot Dopers — the only charge, really — is that she stood up and said Yea" when the vote was taken on S.J. Res. 45 “A Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq.” It’s a safe bet that none of these morons ever actually read the speech she gave in the Senate discussing her vote:

Is Hillary particularly charismatic? Many who know her find her intensely likeable one-on-one but she’s not good on the big TV stage. So let’s throw her under the bus and put Donald Trump in the White House. :smack:

All the Dopers condemning Hillary make me want to puke. Keep prattling your pathetic ignorance — I’m sure you were far too smug to read the speech extracts I just gave. In the unlikely event any of you imbeciles has anything intelligent to say, please say it soon as I’m tempted to set all y’all to “Ignore.”

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Oh. And BTW, for those of you who admire the highly progressive agenda of Bernie Sanders, guess whether he or Hillary would actually have the best chance of implementing progressive policies as President?

[SPOILER] Did you figure it out? If not, please click the appropriate box
[ul][li] I’m still in Junior High School[/li][li]I’m in High School, but not very smart.[/li][/ul]
Read respected magazines for a few days instead of comic books. If you still can’t figure out the answer, go ahead and peek.

[SPOILER]Hillary, of course, would have a better chance than Bernie to actually implement better worker benefits, education subsidies, Wall St. regulations, etc. I admire Bernie for changing the debate, but we need a pragmatic leader who knows how to build alliances to actually implement programs.

If Bernie were President, he’d quickly become a Quixotic laughingstock. Any of his proposals would have the necessary huge tax increases stripped out and could only balloon the deficit. And his total lack of foreign policy experience would make him a real danger as President.

I sincerely applaud Sanders and admire the energy he created. The Millenials who supported him are the best hope for America’s future! But the idea that he would be a better President than Hillary is just idealism unrooted in any reality.[/SPOILER][/SPOILER]

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So, your defense of her action in approving the war in Iraq is to detail a speech in which she highlights her own very bad reasoning for voting for it? A speech that highlights her bad judgement? You really think that makes her look better??

In that case, go ahead and find a speech that clears up her bad judgement in voting for the Patriot Act or any of the other horrible choices she’s made. I’m sure those words will be just as useful.

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I admit to not being HRC’s biggest fan in the recent past. But watching the convention and reading more extensively about her background as an advocate for various causes, I found a new admiration for her.

But even if I hadn’t known what I know now about her, there is absolutely no contest given the choice between Hillary and Donald (that petulant buffoon). She is unquestionably qualified for POTUS.

That said, Obama set the bar very high, and I am less than enthusiastic about her state of the union addresses. Much as I love Bernie, being berated by him for the next four years is an even less attractive proposition.

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I don’t think the conservative hatred is real, they’re just pissed off the Clintons destroyed the GOP electoral lock that existed from 1968-1988.

The leftwing hatred of her really is the problem; that Hillary is a “neocon,” that she’s not a true “progressive” because she doesn’t demonize bankers, that she was too tough on crime in the '90s, etc.

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Then don’t vote for Trump/Pence. Because Pence made that very same mistake. Or do you blame Clinton alone despite the fact that Bush was President at the time?
Her biggest mistake was not the vote but trusting Bush/Cheney not to do something stupid.
And she wasn’t alone in her vote. Are you demanding that everyone who voted for the resolution be thrown out of office?

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I am humbled.

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Out of that speech, the only thing I see that shows bad judgement on her part is

which, with Bush having less than 2 years in office, and pretty high public support after 9/11, I can understand and forgive.

Patriot act also enjoyed widespread support. It certainly was rushed and pushed through, but her choices were to vote for or against it. 9/11 implied that we did need to increase our security, and Patriot Act was an over reaction. It has been at this time, stripped of most of it’s more noxious provisions. It did do some good things in reorganizing security bureaus and improving communication between departments.

What other horrible things do you hate her for?

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Furthermore, she admitted to it being a wrong decision. As she has with respect to other poor decisions she’s made in the course of 25+ years of life in public service.

Nobody is making the claim that she is the perfect candidate.

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What, in what I’ve written here, makes you think I’m going to?

I blame Hillary for Hillary’s actions. And I’ll judge her based on her actions, rather than her words, because talk is cheap and her votes cost Americans their lives and their freedoms.

And she’s made a point throughout the campaign thus far to talk about how she’s got great judgement. Her record shows that she has horrible judgement.

I’m not demanding anything. I’m just not going to vote to send someone who shows such horrible judgement and such blatant disregard for the rights of Americans into the highest elected office in the country. Is that really such an unbelievable stance to take?

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I maintain that the Clintons are Americana at its very best. Not what we pretend to be or want to be, but what we are!

Their marriage has lasted over 40 years.
Their daughter Chelsea turned out fine.
Bill Clinton’s Presidency turned out fine, and don’t tell me his wife wasn’t his co-President.

And AMERICA NEEDS A FEMALE PRESIDENT, and Hilary is the best qualified!

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Bernie lost. Let it go already.

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WTF?
And I assume you’ve never made a mistake in your life.

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I’m certainly not a Hilary hater: I plan on voting for her, and I have reasonable hope that she’ll be a good president. But to play Devil’s Advocate:

You know who else was extremely smart and extremely well qualified? Richard Nixon. I think some of the more reasonable “haters” think, or at least fear, that Hilary has the same flaws as Tricky Dick.

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Nixon probably would have gone down in history as a pretty good president if not for being found out about Watergate and subsequent cover up.

Hillary won’t make the same mistake, she won’t record everything that happens for her memoirs as he did.

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Hillary voted for Iraq because it was politically expedient. Fuck her.

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Why are you trying to make this about anyone but Hillary?

Assuming this is about the part you bolded, have you taken a look at her record? She has a record of being against the First, Second, and Fourth Amendments just off the top of my head.

I’m not running for President, so how is that relevant? And it’s not just about “a mistake.” It’s about a history of bad choices and bad judgement that make America a worse place.

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I assume you meant that Hillary voted for the Authorization of Use of Force in Iraq. If that’s the case, I disagree that political expediency was the only factor in her decision. I doubt it was even a major one. I’d say she voted to give Bush the tools he claimed were necessary because she believed it was the best step in preventing a nuclear armed Iraq, given the information and intel presented at the time.
How that makes her a war hawk, I have never understood.

Her fault of believing Bush does show some error of judgement. But it is also a teachable moment. Most of us did not realize what lengths and lies the republicans would go to to get their war. She did not either. She knows now to never again “misunderestimate” the republicans.

I cannot fault her for this vote, as, were I in her position, given the same information and circumstances, I would have voted the same way, with the same reservations she had.

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The Obamas are a far better example.

Mind you, I’m old-fashioned enough to think that people should actually be faithful to their wedding vows.

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How is that a factor? She’s not the one who cheated.