[I’m not sure if I needed to put this in Elections, GD, here or the Pit, so if I’ve screwed up, I’m sorry. Toss it wherever it fits best.]
So I’ve been seeing all over the place that many either voted for Trump, or felt others did, because Clinton is so hated. And I’ve heard a couple of reasons…
They don’t trust her because she’s a liar. Then there’s usually pointing to the email scandal.
They feel she did much wrong during Bill’s tenure and his subsequent sexual shenanigans (band name!).
She and Bill both had Vince Foster killed.
She’s an “elitist” and, um, apparently all that implies.
She has no charisma. ??
And that their charity is somehow fraudulent.
If you throw any facts into the mix (like she’s been under investigation by the FBI forever and there’s been no reason to charge her with anything), they usually reiterate their claims, switch to a different accusation or say they believe Hannity over politifact, Fox over Charity Navigator. Or whatever.
So, I’m asking Dopers what the deal is. It can be from those who hate her and those who don’t. Obviously, rumors are just that and I’d prefer to discuss factual claims against her, but whatever keeps everyone interested is fair game too. Bring what you’ve heard or even thought yourself about “the most hated woman” in politics and we’ll hash it out.
In the beginning it was because she was a strong woman with an educated mind of her own. When asked about her career choice (as an attorney), she made the mistake of answering to the effect that she never had any intention of staying home and “baking cookies”. This set off a shit storm from the right. You would have thought she had said that all men should be castrated.
From that moment on, the right yapped at her heels, criticizing everything from her hair style (and the hair bands she habitually wore) to her clothing, and particularly her zeal for universal healthcare, which was prompted by her work with the underprivileged. When she made that a priority as First Lady and was assigned to work on it by her husband, she was again vilified by all and sundry on the baying right.
Since then, she’s been the target of choice for the right, going from one non-scandal to the next in an attempt to smear her.
Speaking on a broad and hypothetical level, deeply-seated Mommy issues is the most charitable thing I can think of to explain the intense hatred for a perfect stranger. Facts nor truth seem to be able to overcome that ‘gut feeling’ they can’t explain that this woman who wants to be in charge MUST NOT be allowed to do so. There’s got to be something corrupt about her, just has to be - they can *feel *it. They can’t prove it, mind you, or Jason Chaffetz would be President-elect right now. They’ll abandon religious principles they’ve embraced their whole lives in order to soak themselves in this delicious, self-righteous hate that feels so justified.
When a guy says they support a woman POTUS as long as it’s **not **HRC, I ask them who else they have in mind; they can never name any woman b/c their mind refuses to allow the idea.
*She offended traditional gender roles and it grew from there
*Sexism
*Not a conservative
*Remaining loyal to a philandering husband
Does that sound about right? And judging from some of the replies, I get a sense that’s only educated guesses, and not from those who voted for Trump. However, I’m not sure about kopek and if his dislike was strong enough to sway his vote. I do believe that Flyer wouldn’t have voted for her, so then I suppose my question to him is…
Was it simply because she wasn’t a conservative or something else? If it’s the latter, what was it? And why would that qualify as hatred (or dislike)?
I started disliking H. Clinton’s policy positions since she pushed for restrictions on video games offending the first amendment. Since then she continued forays into restricting speech that she disapproved of.
She has been a long time enemy of gun ownership and was involved in the strategy to sue gun manufacturers out of existence in the US.
She wants to repeal the PLCAA.
These have nothing to do with her gender, but substantive policy differences concerning the 1st and 2nd amendment.
You’re right, and reasonable people can disagree about substantive policy differences.
BUT the visceral, almost archetypal hatred of her, again IMHO, goes beyond simply disagreeing with her policies. I sense that your dislike of her and repudiation of her policies is at a reasonable level. That’s what politics is all about and it’s good.
But what about the people who absolutely despise her personally? Would a man who espoused those policies you named above be despised with the gut-level fervor that is leveled at Hillary? Even the liberals who hate Trump don’t hate him the way the alt-right people hate Hillary. The people who hate her at that level don’t even hate Bill that much. What about the sites that said she and Obama stank of sulphur because they were the spawn of Satan? That goes beyond policy disagreements.
I’ve spoken to a lot of people, both conservatives and liberals, who hate her, and mostly I get a frothing variation on “She email Benghazi Bill healthcare woman evil devil Benghazi email jail jail jail penis jail”.
Seriously, I just had a friend and co-worker tell me “If she had a penis, she’d be in jail right now.”
He couldn’t register the look on my face at all.
Having said that, I appreciate your response, Bone. It’s easily the most cogent and succinct list of reasons I’ve ever seen or heard.
From the people I’ve spoken to, it’s the philandering husband. How that’s her fault, I’ll never understand. Should she have stayed with him? That’s a question only she can answer. I think if everyone left their husband over a tryst or long affair, there’d be a lot fewer intact marriages out there.
Because deep down, most men don’t want to be led by a woman. Especially a middle aged-to-older woman who seems like a scold and is not a stand-out performer (didn’t she just coast on her husbands abilities? Hmmm). A woman who looks and sounds like your mom.
If she was a brilliant and sexy cyborg woman, things might be different.
I think in the early 90s when she was pursuing universal health care, and her comment about a “vast right-wing conspiracy” against her husband set her off on the wrong foot with the Republican party. Her posture as not wanting to be seen as a housewife was opposite, perhaps, what some saw as the role of the First Lady (the ideal being Nancy Reagan?). She was this uppity, ambitious, independent woman, and maybe seen as a future threat somehow. As a result I think mis-steps during her role as Senator and SoS, with the Clinton Foundation, etc. since then have been way overblown as a way to tarnish her record and reputation, for the someday future fight for POTUS. Her political enemies kept repeating the “scandals” enuf times that eventually people accepted them as truth, or at least caused people to question and doubt her. Well, all those years of smear finally paid-off in a big way.
It’s easy for me to see why she would be so secretive and wooden and robotic and rehearsed to the public when each and every molecule of her actions would be blown out of proportion if perceived just the right way. Imagine living under a microscope like that for 30+ years.
Her email crimes and her getting off scot-free where other lesser offenders wound up in prison or at least fired shocked and enraged me. She exposed classified material to many people without clearance for her own personal gain with complete disregard for the law. She set up a private server that was completely open to anyone with basic hacking skills, let alone foreign government experts, regardless of the damage it could do to the country. And she did this while she was Secretary of State, at the highest level of US Government. The only reason I can think of that many think this is a non-scandal is that those people also are unconcerned about the damage it could do to the country.
Some earlier threads I posted in for your consideration. I’d be surprised if there were no others on the subject.
No doubt it’s complicated. Thatcher was a crazy genius though. And the US media seemed to assume Hillary had the Hispanic vote sewn up. FWIW, I just couldn’t see hispanic men thinking that Hillary embodied what they wanted in a leader.
