Question on omnipotence

[aldiboronti]

Could an omnipotent God create an immovable object?

[furt]

You're a charter member. There are 357 threads on this.

[C K Dexter Haven]

I dunno, but a bunch of immovable objects (read: fundamentalists) have created an immovable God.

[BrainGlutton]

I think St. Augustine once wrote that it is sinful to doubt God's omnipotence just because God cannot do logically impossible things, like dividing something into three equal halves.

[Contrapuntal]

It seems to me that it is really a meaningless question, in the sense that no meaning can be attached to it. Kind of like asking if a tree can be alive and dead at the same time. Universes that have omnipotent Gods in them do not have immoveable objects in them.

[Harmonix]

Assuming there is an omnipotent god, sure why not? An omnipotent God could surely cause himself to not be omnipotent by creating an object which he has no control over. I don't see the problem with that.

[Contrapuntal]

Originally Posted by Harmonix

Assuming there is an omnipotent god, sure why not? An omnipotent God could surely cause himself to not be omnipotent by creating an object which he has no control over. I don't see the problem with that.

Well if he caused himself to become "not omnipotent", how would he become omnipotent again? Would he really give up his omnipotence just to move an object? And at any rate you no longer have an omnipotent God moving an immoveable object, which is the question in the OP.

[SentientMeat]

The question boils down to whether God is constrained by the laws of logic. If not, there would appear no means to examine the truth of the satatement "God exists and does not exist, simultaneously".

I did away with all this nonsense by becoming a physicalist.

[Harmonix]

Originally Posted by trandallt

Well if he caused himself to become "not omnipotent", how would he become omnipotent again?

Why would he have to?

Would he really give up his omnipotence just to move an object?

Why not? It's not like he's really giving up anything. If I were the God in question i'd make the rock a tiny pebble traveling outwards along the edge of the expanding universe. It'd never bug me there, and I can still do ANYTHING else but move that object. Big deal.

And at any rate you no longer have an omnipotent God moving an immoveable object, which is the question in the OP.

No. The question was could an omnipotent God MAKE an inmovable object. That is totally different from "Can an omnipotent god MOVE an inmovable object." The former I find no problem with. The latter as others have said is a logically impossible task.

[Contrapuntal]

[quote=Harmonix]

Why not? It's not like he's really giving up anything. If I were the God in question i'd make the rock a tiny pebble traveling outwards along the edge of the expanding universe. It'd never bug me there, and I can still do ANYTHING else but move that object. Big deal.

How can a tiny immoveable pebble travel?

No. The question was could an omnipotent God MAKE an inmovable object. That is totally different from "Can an omnipotent god MOVE an inmovable object." The former I find no problem with. The latter as others have said is a logically impossible task.

Yuo're right, I misread the OP. However, if he MADE himself not omnipotent then once again you are not answering the OP. The question was not whether a God who USED to be omnipotent can create an immoveable, it is whether a God who IS omnipotent can create one.

[Contrapuntal]

Originally Posted by SentientMeat

The question boils down to whether God is constrained by the laws of logic. If not, there would appear no means to examine the truth of the satatement "God exists and does not exist, simultaneously".

I did away with all this nonsense by becoming a physicalist.

That looks very interesting. Thanks for the link.

[Metacom]

I prefer Homer Simpon's phrasing of the question: Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself could not eat it?

( Wikipedia has a good overview of the omnipotence paradox.)

[Harmonix]

Originally Posted by trandallt

How can a tiny immoveable pebble travel?

I created it with a velocity. I, nor can anything else change its velocity thus moving it in its own frame of reference.

Yuo're right, I misread the OP. However, if he MADE himself not omnipotent then once again you are not answering the OP. The question was not whether a God who USED to be omnipotent can create an immoveable, it is whether a God who IS omnipotent can create one.

I don't see the problem. I'm omnipotent until I make the rock. After which I am no longer omnipotent.

[The Great Sun Jester]

Originally Posted by aldiboronti

Could an omnipotent God create an immovable object?

There are not enough parameters. Most importantly the question does not define the God's existence relative to the universe in which this object would be created.

Some of us believe that this universe IS God. As such, God is omnipotent in that nothing can happen unless it is (The Will Of God = Possible). In this case, the question is flawed in principle because the creation of such an object would involve merely the restructuring of God. Any object, once created, would move in accordance with God's wishes. An immovable object in this scenario would have to equal the size of the universe and thus could not be moved (no room to move it). It does not impeach God's omnipotence.

Some of us believe that God exists outside of this universe. Again, is this object to be created within our universe? Then the immovable object would be the size of this universe and thus immovable.

Some of us believe God exists within this universe. They need to watch that Star Trek movie where God is shown to be just a super being, but not a diety.

[Contrapuntal]

[quote=Harmonix]

I don't see the problem. I'm omnipotent until I make the rock. After which I am no longer omnipotent.

I think you have a problem with the timeline. The immoveable object cannot exist at the same time as the omnipotent God. He would have to renounce his omnipotence (or whatever) before creating the rock.

[Harmonix]

Why must god renounce his omnipotency BEFORE he creates the rock? Even if he did so what? God may say he's not omnipotent, but by definition, and barring the creation of the rock, he is still omnipotent.

It is the act of creating the rock which causes loss of omnipotence.

The question is can an omnipotent god create an unmovable rock? God was omnipotent until he made the rock. I don't see the problem here.

[Ramanujan]

Originally Posted by Harmonix

Why must god renounce his omnipotency BEFORE he creates the rock? Even if he did so what? God may say he's not omnipotent, but by definition, and barring the creation of the rock, he is still omnipotent.

It is the act of creating the rock which causes loss of omnipotence.

The question is can an omnipotent god create an unmovable rock? God was omnipotent until he made the rock. I don't see the problem here.

an omnipotent being could renounce his omnipotence, but then get it back. he's omnipotent, after all. in fact, he could be both omnipotent and not omnipotent at the same time, which brings us back to the question "can god do things that are logically prohibited?"

[Ethilrist]

I believe he could make it. I also believe he would, then, be able to move it.

If you're going to believe in an omnipotent god, you can't stop halfway.