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#1
08-03-2004, 01:52 PM
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I am on the horns of a fashion dilemma
I just found in my foot locker a gorgeous c1960 Ann Fogarty of my Mom’s—very Jackie. I want to get some fabric and have my Little Dressmaker run me up a couple of knockoffs . . . But I am so short of cash. Still, we are talking Enterprising Frocks, made to order, which will last a good ten years . . I'll look just like Jackie Kennedy, if Jackie Kennedy had been a fat old Jew . . .
Looks just like this, only in a cream-colored linen, with elbow-length sleeves and four inverted kick-pleats in the skirt . . . I can give tours of our office! "This is the office of the editor-in-chief . . . That filing cabinet was donated by Mrs. Burton Cohen of Ho-Ho-Kus, New Jersey . . ." 
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#2
08-03-2004, 03:11 PM
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That's a pretty cute dress, all right. They wore much nicer stuff back then.
Why, Eve, you're a big wheel in the fashion industry - you mean to say you can't run up a couple of frocks on your own? (speaking as someone who can't even hem a skirt to save her life)
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#4
08-03-2004, 05:30 PM
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 Definitely a collection of antiques!Yeah, a nice dress, by the way. Ah, to be able to wear pleats again.
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#5
08-03-2004, 05:58 PM
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. . . and that dress is so classic it will look perfectly modern in NYC today. I can go to the Gommint District and pick up, say, three yards of fabric for about $25 (double that, for two dresses), a little extra for zippers and decorative buttons. My Little Dressmaker will charge me about $65/dress, labor.
So, we are running into some money--but still a lot less than I'd pay for something at Lord & Taylor's I didn't like as well . . . And these will be tailored to me, and in colors and fabrics I've chosen.
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#6
08-03-2004, 06:19 PM
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Eve, while you may be Jewish, you sure as hell aren't fat! Remember, we've seen your pics.
Me, I find those just-below-the-waist length jackets unbecoming, but if it's a style you can wear, go for it, dudette! Get one now, and have another one made when you can manage. As you so correctly pointed out, it's a classic style, so it's not like you won't be able to wear it in six months. If you start now, with, say, a nice wool challis or medium-weight crepe, it would be perfect for a fall suit. And I love the idea of it in ivory if, unlike me, you can avoid spilling on yourself for more than a day. (I'm simultaneously pathetic and dangerous - sigh.)
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#7
08-03-2004, 06:23 PM
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Really, Eve, in the long run you're saving yourself money by having this done. As you said, you'll wear them for years, and just having them in your closet will keep you from having to buy something on the instant for some dinner or affair. It's a versatile outfit, so you can wear it to a fairly fancy gathering, or an afternoon garden party, all depending on your jewelry, shoes and wrap. Besides, it will make you happy.
If money's the issue, have your dressmaker make one now, if a lighter fabric so you can wear it right away, and hold off on the second one for a couple of months and have it made in a heavier fabric, for the cooler seasons. You deserve it. Oh, and choose fabric that match shoes you already have. Mustn't be extravagant.
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#8
08-03-2004, 06:27 PM
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You can take the girl away from 1961 but you can't take 1961 away from the girl. . .
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#10
08-03-2004, 06:41 PM
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My mother had a very similar dress in dark emerald green raw silk, with a matching pillbox hat. A ritzy friend of hers used to have parties where all the ladies would pore over fabric samples with a group of travelling tailors from Hong Kong. I loved that dress. Unfortunately I was six inches taller than my mother by the time I was 12, so it wouldn't have done me much good to keep it.
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#11
08-03-2004, 07:00 PM
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Eve consider getting one done now in a fabric suitable for fall and winter, since before long they will be with us. Then, as a Christmas/New Year's treat for yourself, get another one done in a Spring/Summer fabric. That way, you'll have a yummy outfit to look forward to in October and one to look forward to in April or May. What could be better than having two yummy outfits to look forward to?
I just said yummy outfit twice. Og! I am sooooo gay.
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#13
08-03-2004, 08:02 PM
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Well, I already had two summer dresses made up, copied from this dress: One in this floral pattern, and one in a beige and white bamboo pattern.
I'm thinking of the Jackie dress as a spring/fall dress; even winter, with a stole over it (stoles are very in next season--fashion flash!). Barring weight gain (ha!), my clothes usually last a good eight to ten years.
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#14
08-03-2004, 09:03 PM
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You have an imaginary lifestyle to uphold, or didn't you know that? 
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#15
08-03-2004, 09:06 PM
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That raw silk stuff always looks to me like little fabric elves have been making runs in perfectly good material. Avoid the fabric elves at all costs.
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#16
08-03-2004, 09:50 PM
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1) To seamstress, to ask how many yards of fabric I'll need.
2) To Poli's in the Gommint District--they have everything in the way of fabrics. 3) To that wonderful little Russian button store on 6th--they have novelty and designer buttons going back to the 1920s. 4) To the bank, to explain to them why I need a loan.
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#17
08-03-2004, 11:14 PM
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Wow, you may just the person I'm looking for Eve (sorry, I recognize you from your posts but I don't post much myself).
I've been trying to find 50s cocktail dress patterns for yonks. Basically I want a dress pattern that mirrors what Grace Kelly wears when she's feeding Jimmy Stewart the dinner from Le Cirque (or whatever restaurant it was) at the beginning of Rear Window...or maybe somthing Liz Taylorish. Basically I plan to take said pattern to India and have the dress made up using sari fabric (with the beautiful border at the bottom of the skirt and maybe around the sleeves) but I've been having a hard time locating the bloody patterns. I'm also wondering how to make the skirt poof out like theirs would...do you know of any costuming or pattern books of that era that give seamstress like directions or anything? Your seamstress must be very clever to draw it up from just a picture but I don't want to take chances and if I ruin several yards of sari material my mother will throttle me. I've seen some McCall's dress patterns for sale online but I'm looking for a real professional design of the era so I'm not sure if those will do. Labour is pretty cheap in India and again, if I ruin sari silk my mother will have my head so I want it to be just right. If you could help...I would appreciate it. Oh, and by the way, beautiful dress, I'm sure you'll look gorge(ous).
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#18
08-04-2004, 01:54 AM
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#19
08-04-2004, 05:31 AM
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For full length skirts, if you want the bell shape, hoops do the job very well. But I don't believe they were being used during the fifties - that was strictly petticoats. Warning - it is not an especially comfortable look, especially since, to make it work really well, you should be well corseted at the torso.
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#20
08-04-2004, 07:02 AM
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 Picture that! A man with a full beard, a buzzcut, hairy arms and hairy legs prancing around downtown dressed like Jackie Kennedy.
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#21
08-04-2004, 07:18 AM
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I especially love the neckline and "sleeve" of the dress. And it's a timeless cut.
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#23
08-04-2004, 07:25 AM
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At less than $100 each for dresses of this quality, I don't see how you can afford not to do it. I was at the mall yesterday and an ugly polyster rag at Casual Corners cost more than that!
Get the linen in beige and the nubby silk in teal -- I made a suit years ago in teal raw silk and it was beautiful. I got compliments on the color and fabric every time I wore it. I love that Marilyn dress, BTW. My mom had three similar dresses made in the Phillipines back in the early '60s. One was sleeveless and made of white cotton with a pattern of tiny green stick people -- it sounds odd but it was really pretty. The second had 3/4 sleeves and was made of a heavier polished cotton in watered stripes of kelly and emerald green. The third was sleeveless in raw silk in an abstract pattern of rusts, browns and black. Gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous. She also had what my dad calls a "Suzy Wong dress" in that reversible silk -- pink and gold. Absolutely mouth-watering. And they would all fit me and look beautiful on me. Unfortunately she threw them away when they went "out of style!"
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#24
08-04-2004, 08:16 AM
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I love it.
That's all I gots to say. I love the vintage feminine look. HOw in the hell did those women have such tiny waists?
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#26
08-04-2004, 08:46 AM
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corsets n shit. Egads. No wonder the muu muu became so popular.
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#27
08-04-2004, 10:22 AM
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I well remember my mother's horrible nasty girdles -- suckers went amost to the bottom of her bra and came down on her legs like bike shorts. Yuck. I was born in 1960, so by the time I had to worry about this crap, they had invented panty-hose -- a wonderful, wonderful invention!
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#28
08-04-2004, 10:42 AM
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My main problem will be finding a fabric in a color I like—my Little Dressmaker will just be copying my mother's 1960 Anne Fogarty (and changing it from a size 4 to a size 12!).
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#30
08-04-2004, 10:59 AM
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I wonder what a vintage size 16 (with a 34 inch bust) would be today? I'm thinking about a 6!
I have rented Rear Window just to look at Grace Kelly's clothes; I admit it. And hey, can you even still buy girdles today? I'm thinking, post-partum, I might not mind so much, at least until my figure comes back -- if it ever does!
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#31
08-04-2004, 11:28 AM
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Lovely! Thanks so much for your help.
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#32
08-04-2004, 11:49 AM
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I go to Devon Street in Chicago to get saris to make into dresses and such. I am working on a ball gown now, but it is slow going with a toddler in the house. My advice if you are going to have clothes made or make them yourselfout of saris is to get acrylic saris for a test run. Make sure the design has the same directional elements as the silk one, for example if there is a pattern with a 9 inch border and an asymetic pattern running in the middle, find an acrylic one with those elements going in the same direction. It may not look anything like the final one, but it should be the approximate weight and hand. The nice thing about acrylic saris is that they are washable. They feel and look lovely and can be washed at home.
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#33
08-04-2004, 01:13 PM
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I had no idea you could find these old patterns on E-bay. I like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...110700947&rd=1 Especially the one with the fur trim.
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#35
08-04-2004, 01:45 PM
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If you believe the latest issue of Elle, the Victorian look is going to be very "in" this fall as well.
*sigh* finally...other women who understand my need to look like I stepped out of the 30s-50s. lee, your sari evening gown sounds lovely. The acrylic idea is a good one...there are different types of local silk in India that might mirror the drape of acrylic (man, there are some soft, soft silks there that are very local artisan blends...not sure if they carry them on Devon, and if they do, they're probably exorbitantly priced) so I could probably do a test run without making my mom's blood boil in terms of ruining an expensive sari. I am going to investigate how to make the skirt poof without petticoats...my sister has a 50ish prom dress and they made the skirt poof I think by sewing something into several layers of lining. I'll have to see how it goes. Anyway, this is all conjecture...my parents just piss and moan when I talk about going to India being all "let's just go during your trousseau trip!" (I know...trousseau, geez...) but unless I find a groom within the next year I am just going to go for fun...little old spinster me.
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#36
08-04-2004, 01:58 PM
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#37
08-04-2004, 02:13 PM
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Actually, it seems to be primarily a reinterpretation of those blouses women used to wear in the 1970s with those bloody sashes tying under the neck...anyway, the material is usually silky or satiny, it's highnecked with that frilly doily thing going on around the neck and chest area (to top of cleavage). I think I've noticed a slight puff to the sleeves. From what I've seen them paired with-it's usually slim tweed pencil skirts and round toed mary jane like heels in snappy colours like teal. This is of course, runway couture...
The other victoriany thing they seem to be doing is adding demure lace edging to a lot of dresses to make them look more vintage. These are actually really pretty. I don't know how long these ideas are going to take to filter down to the hoi polloi-I'm not so sure the doily shirts are going to look that great on a lot of people anyway but in any case, I fear we will be held to the tyranny of those awful low-slung tiered skirts that make women's legs look unnecessarily thick for longer than I had originally anticipated. The longish pencil skirts are just darling, though and I am crossing my fingers for the return of round-toes.
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#38
08-04-2004, 02:41 PM
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Well, I have been changing my whole look over the last year or so—I used to be a sweater-and-skirt girl, but the older and dumpier I get . . . I need a long, tailored line. Which means Jackie/Audrey-type dresses. Simple, streamlined, pared-down.
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#39
08-04-2004, 03:01 PM
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There was a woman who picked up her kid at school in a different pair of those elf-with-a-whip heels every day. Just too strange.
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#41
08-04-2004, 05:03 PM
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I bought two pairs of those high heeled pointy elf toed boots when they were deeply on sale. Unfortunately, walking in them outside of the cushiony shoe department floor proved to give me several large blisters in the 500 feet from my room to class.
Sadly, I had to give those boots away to a transvestite. Give me round toes anytime. In that vein, has anyone seen what style the dress boots are going to be this year? My trusty beige square-toe boots finally died. 
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#42
08-04-2004, 05:51 PM
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Eve, dear, this is not a fashion dilemma. There is only one answer to this question. Get thee to that dressmaker now.
I'm very sure the bank would understand your need for a loan. Given all the facts the request is not unreasonable.
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#43
08-04-2004, 08:27 PM
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silk saris can be gotten for $45 and up. Acrylic for $8 and up. The acrylic saris that I get for test runs are about $25 to $30. The ball gown is going to be made of three acrylic saris that i found for $20 each. they have the same color pattern. cream base dyed magenta on one edge and teal on the other. The color fade to the cream forming about a 11' border on each side. The fabric is a chiffon with a paisely pattern
in satin brocade patches. The pulla pieces are brocade, but a very soft one. It flows well and is eye catching, both good for competition ball gowns. The dress will be washable, if i ever finish it.
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#44
08-05-2004, 09:31 AM
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Today I'm wearing a pair of BP ankle-strap leather-and suede w/4" heels. They're cute, round-toe, and comfy. Poifect!
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#45
08-05-2004, 09:38 AM
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Oh...and the pointy shoes? Yeah...like all women want their feet to look three or four sizes bigger, right?
I don't know how women walk in the elongated pointy shoes! I had to turn my feet outward just to move in them! I don't mind pointy pumps if they're the old kind. You know...just pointy? But NOOOOOOOOOO! they had to tack another inch and a half of length on them. Because elf toes are so FUCKING attractive. Feh. They need to die.
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#46
08-05-2004, 11:31 AM
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I'm not one of those people who thinks men (you know, ones who are NOT Versace) should be excluded from female fashion decisions (though I suppose I'm making assumptions that you are one)--in fact, Skip comes in handy when I'm on the fence about something (all it takes are the words "You look like a sausage" and it's back on the rack ), but I gotta disagree with you on this one.Silk! Silk! Silk!
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#47
08-05-2004, 11:48 AM
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If I may add my two cents...
The dress is lovely, and having a couple made is a excellent idea. However, I would have your seamstress "tweak" each dress a bit so they're a bit different (apart from just fabric) - same line, same style, just add some different detailing so it doesn't look quite so much like you have the same dress in two different colors. Just a pet peeve of mine - it makes a lovely garment too "uniformy" when you have the exact thing in another color.
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#48
08-05-2004, 11:53 AM
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Well, I had not realised that I *ever* have a mental image of Dopers' appearances, but I really would not have guessed Eve to be a fat, old *anything*!
It seems to me you have had a depressing tiem, lately, Eve so you simply reclassify the dresses into the category of "medicine"  And whence all these "poofs"? And no-one objecting to the term?..................Ah yes, language difference. Tee hee
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#49
08-05-2004, 12:57 PM
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Eve always gives herself a bad rap in the looks department. There are pictures of her around...She's a doll. I'm sure someone will provide a link.
Hmmm...colors. I like the teal idea. I'm not sure about red. Maybe a really deep orangy-red. The silk sounds good. And there are degrees of "nubbiness" on the silk. I'd probably be more drawn to one with slightly less nub.
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