Thoughts on Revenge of the Sith (unboxed spoilers)

[Merijeek]

Saw it at the midnight showing, and I've got to say I loved it.

Anyways, some random things that did occur to me.

I loved the look on Dooku's face when Palpatine is telling Anakin to kill him. Priceless.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed that this is the second time we see Palpatine sitting in a throne and watching an apprentice and a potential apprentice battle it out.

I also liked the symbolism that Palpatine was literally tearing apart the Senate in his battle with Yoda. Quite apt.

I think pretty much all the big questions got covered in this movie. Only one I can see is how Leia remembers her mother, and I would guess that it's either Force-type prenatal memories or her thinking Bail's wife is actually her real mother.

I'm sure there's more, but I've only got 4 hours until I need to be at work.

A couple questions.

First off, when Yoda tells Obi-Wan that the Padawan was killed by a lightsaber and Obi-Wan bends down to get a closer look I could swear that the kid in the foreground moved. Anyone else notice that? I'm not totally sure, but I'm certain I'll remember to look next time I see the movie.

Second, when Padme was on her way to her burial, did she still look pregnant? If so, that's pretty clever of everyone involved. But then again, maybe it was just an unflattering dress.

Oh, and a note to George and all the other directors out there...stop with the closeups in melee battles!

-Joe

[Cuckoorex]

Well, they tried to answer the question of why some Jedi can appear again in spirit form, implying that Qui Gon "rediscovered" some secret of immortality and passed it on to Yoda, who in turn passed it on to Kenobi...and yet at the end of ROTJ, Anakin also joins the ranks of the "spirit Jedi"...are we to believe that he, too, "rediscovered" it on his own? I guess so...

[Asylum]

That movie was all that with an order of fries and a large Coke.

Overall I'd probably rank ROTS third in series behind ANH and ESB.

Some of my random thoughts:

Yoda's a badass (thought this during the last movie, but it's nice to have some confirmation in your life).

Lucas still can't write romantic dialogue (I physically winced during the early scene between Anakin/Padme in their apartment).

Lucas must've given more direction to his actors because ROTS had the best acting of any movie he's directed that I've seen.

I would've liked to have seen more of General Grevous (sp?). He was a badass.

After watching this movie I can totally buy Anakin going to the dark side and becoming Darth Vader. After watching the first two movies I had my doubts about whether or not Lucas could pull this off convincingly, but I must admit that if I was in Anakin's shoes I could potentially see myself doing the same thing.

Merijeek, I can't answer your first question, but as for your second, I definitely agree that Padme looked pregnant at her funeral.

[FriarTed]

I just got back from seeing it a little over an hour ago-

Only one complaint- needs more Christopher Lee!

And I do wish Governor Tarkin had more than a distant cameo- they did get a superficially-decent Peter Cushing-type tho.

[Mahaloth]

Originally Posted by FriarTed

And I do wish Governor Tarkin had more than a distant cameo- they did get a superficially-decent Peter Cushing-type tho.

Scorpius!

It doesn't get any better than that.

[Electronic Chaos]

It was alright. There were a couple way over the top scenes though. The first being when Sideous is killing Mace Windu...and directly afterwards. The audience actually laughed.

The second was as Darth Vader raised in his robotic form to learn that "he killed Padme."

"Nooooooooooooooooooooo!"

Also, they needed James Earl Jones for the voice of Vader. Nobody else could pull it off.

And one more thing. I saw this speculated by someone else in another thread, but who else thinks that

SPOILER:

Sideous/Palpatine created Anakin by manipulating the midichlorians, with the intention of making the Perfect Apprentice?

[spectrum]

I didn't see the padawan twitch.

I didn't like the montage ending. Same problem LOTR had. Jesus, just end the movies. We don't have to go visit the hometown of every blasted character in order to be swept up by the gestalt of the conclusion. The end of Attack of the Clones was far less broad, but still far more powerful. I would have ditched Alderaan, and probably Padme's funeral.

The first part of the duel with Sidious (the Windu one), when he wipes out the other three Masters, was fairly lame. The rest of that fight was pretty cool.

I was very, very concerned about the turning. I thought the seduction of Anakin was handled very, very well. You could feel him siding with Palpatine as the movie moved forward. Given the way he'd been treated, I didn't blame him for turning on Windu and the others — except, of course, for Obi-Wan.

Does anyone else think that, on some level, Palpatine truly did care about Anakin? He was very kind to him, even after being revealed as evil. He was very fatherly towards Anakin on Mustaffar.

[sciguy]

Oh....my.....god!

Was definitely a much better movie than the last two prequels. Although I think I may disagree with Asylum, I'm wondering if the better acting we see is due to less directing from Lucas. He's pretty good with story concepts, but I've never been that impressed with the films where he's directed. Although I'll admit I haven't yet seen THX-1138 (it's coming up on Netflix, though) and it's been a long while since I've seen American Graffiti.

It was cute how 3PO got a memory wipe, but R2 didn't.

The construction of the Vader suit was almost worth the price of admission by itself. And Anakin's scarred body was even worse off that I could've thought. :shudder:

The lightsaber battles were most impressive. Sadly, although I tried every jedi mind trick in the book, bladder pressure forced me away from my seat for part of the Anakin/Obi-wan fight. And I missed Yoda's escape through the senate tunnels. But even so, that was probably the fastest piss I've ever taken.

I was hoping for an actual appearance by Liam Neeson as Qui-Gon.

After seeing the film, I'm sticking to my theory (formulated after reading the novelization) that Sidious influenced the "virgin birth" of Anakin. The power he described to Anakin included manipulating midichlorians to cheat death and create life. I think Maul and Dooku were always just placeholders for Sidious's engineered apprentice, fathered by the Force itself.

I think the Jedi were pretty dense about the interpretation of "bring balance to the Force". Even while Obi-wan was fighting Anakin/Vader at the end, the idea that culling the Jedi order down to balance against the two Sith just seemed to bypass him.

Finally I think the storytelling and characterization in the novel was much better than the film. The novel really pulled you inside the heads of the characters, especially during the fight scenes. Although that's probably an unfair comparison, since that kind of introspection is really hard to pull off in a movie.

[Murcielago]

Breif thoughts before going to bed...

Great action sequences, from the opening space battle to the final showdowns.

Though the Anakin/Padme bits still make you drop your head to your hand, Kenobi and Palpatine keep you interested in the characters.

Yoda dropping Palpatine's two red-robed guards was priceless.

[Ender_Will]

Just got back from the west coast midnight show.

Thought it was great. The betrayal of the Jedi was one of the best scenes I've seen in a long time. The scenes with Palpatine converting Anakin were incredible. I'm gonna agree with everyone else that the romantic stuff between Anakin and Padme were horrid.

Yoda is such a badass, it's not even funny. As Murcielago just said, Yoda dropping the two red-robed Imperial Gaurds was awesome. As was his survival of the

Personally, I liked the allusions/duplicates/whatever to the original trilogy, both the Anakin/Dooku fight mirroring the Luke/Vader battle from ROTJ and Owen and Beru watching the twin sunrise a la Luke in ANH. Too many clouds for Tattooine though.

Yeah, Padme was definitely pregnant in the funeral.

Don't know if I'm alone on this one, but it might well have had the best visual effects I've ever seen, especially in the opening space battle.

I could go on about how much I was digging the evolution of the spacecraft into what we're all familiar with from the original three, or how cool Chewie and Tarkin's ultra-brief cameos were, or Obi-Wan taking down Grevious was, but I'm off to bed, try to sleep before my final in seven hours.

And honestly, when it comes to studying or the premiere of Star Wars...No question. Finals come around every semester, but there's only ONE first showing.

[Ender_Will]

Third paragraph was supposed to say something about his survival of the Clone betrayal. Wish there was an edit function...

[GuanoLad]

Originally Posted by spectrum

We don't have to go visit the hometown of every blasted character in order to be swept up by the gestalt of the conclusion.

Yes we did! This is not only the last Star Wars movie that had to tie up a lot of loose ends, and that was almost the only way to achieve them, but they also had to set up the 20 year gap until Episode IV.

The montage was a prerequisite, and handled perfectly.

[galen ubal]

Originally Posted by Electronic Chaos

<snip..>
Also, they needed James Earl Jones for the voice of Vader. Nobody else could pull it off.
<..snip>

Actually, he was - check out IMDB's complete cast list.

[Tracy Lord]

I'll type up a longer response when I'm more lucid, but for now I'm chipping in to say that I didn't think the Anakin/Padme stuff was that bad. Or, rather, that half of it wasn't that bad. Hayden Christensen is a much better actor than I'd given him credit for, and he really holds up in the Scenes of Saccharine Drek. When Padme tells him she's pregnant (terrible delivery by Ms. Portman across the board, alas), he goes through a whole range of "I made a baby!" "Holy crap, this is going to screw our lives up like none other!" "We made a baby!" "Jesus Christ, what are we going to do?!" and ending up on "I love this woman so much" and then sweeping her into this great embrace. When they give Christensen fewer lines and more face-acting time, he's golden.

[Excalibre]

I suppose I'm the only one who thinks so . . . but, sucks, it does.

This movie, to me, is the worst of the prequels, because while the first was nigh-unwatchable, it had a plot reminiscent of a breakfast cereal commercial. The second had no plot to speak of. But this one - it actually had a good story behind it. High melodrama, in my opinion. And despite every other flaw, it could have been good if the two leads had been capable of carrying off their roles. But they weren't. I couldn't sense any chemistry whatsoever between Christensen and Portman. And it's ironic that given the crappiness of these two leads that they had the youngest (second-youngest? Was Jodi Foster younger?) Academy Award nominee ever in the cast - with no lines.

I tried to sit and enjoy it, and some piece of awful dialogue ruined scenes for me time and again. Or some other idiocy: the Wookiee are supposed to be primitive - so they fight with blasters shaped like crossbows. Anakin and Obi Wan are fighting several feet above actively-churning lava. Not only were their bodily fluids not boiled off, but Obi Wan wasn't even visibly sweaty, and Anakin wasn't either until one of the final close-ups. Count Dooku and Chancellor Palpatine were hanging out in the most exposed section of the ship during an enormous space battle, and when the ship crashed into a planet, burning off about half of it in the process, that little spire somehow survived.

I also wonder how the dead baby Jedi made their way into the movie. It happened a few minutes after the scene in which all the Jedi died (one of the few with any pathos, possibly because no one was talking.) Despite my liking that scene, apparently the sadness didn't stick with the audience in the theater, who were laughing moments later as Yoda fought off his attempted killers. I'm thinking - test audiences didn't feel sad enough? Let's throw in some dead children.

I was also rather irritated by the unsubtleness of some of the dialogue - Anakin actually says, "You are either with me - or you are my enemy." Gosh, that's sure something to think about. I wonder what you could have been referencing, George Lucas.

It was sad to see Ewan McGregor valiently struggling against the bad dialogue. Thank goodness Samuel L. Jackson had so much screen time; he's one of those actors with a presence that works no matter what he's saying.

By the end, I was expecting no major character to have any hands left. How many behandings must there be in a movie? If it had happened once in Episodes 1-3, it would have been an interesting parallel to Luke's hand in the original trilogy. But every other seen involved a hand dropping into an abyss. Is this some hamhanded (so to speak) attempt at symbolism? Did Lucas think he was establishing some sort of motif?

That's all I can think of to hate the movie for, at the moment. I have to admit that my irritation was enhanced by the idiot sitting next to me, whose name I believe is Gaspy McGaspalot. Gaspy, it seems, somehow missed the first trilogy. Because every time anything happened, she gasped in shock. Every five seconds. Apparently, she wasn't aware that Anakin Skywalker was going to turn evil. Or that the Chancellor wasn't nice. Or that Darth Vader wore a black suit. Or that he had a Death Star in Episode IV.

Plus, in the scene where Anakin wakes up from a nightmare, did anyone notice the jewelry Padme was wearing, and the strings of pearls sewed onto her nightgown? WTF? She would have strangled herself in her sleep!

I liked a couple bits. I liked when R2D2 squirted oil at the droids and killed them. And I thought CGI-Yoda finally looked pretty good. And I did like the overall story, even if a competent director could have done so much more with it.

Ahh, well, at least I still have my (non-updated) videos of the original trilogy . . .

[Lord Ashtar]

If I had to nitpick things I didn't like, I'd have to go with the fact that we still don't really know why Leia has memories of Padme and Luke does not.

Other than that, my brother and I were wondering why Palpatine's face got all messed up. We were speculating before the movie that maybe he was using the Force to keep his face normal looking most of the time, which weakened him, which was why nobody noticed that he was an ultra-powerful Sith lord. Turns out it was his own Force Lightning.

I felt they could've used a few more minutes in Anakin's actual turn, but it still worked as it was done. I did, however, love the way that Palpatine was telling him (telepathically, no less) that if he died, Anakin would have no way to save Padme. Then, after he turned he was all, "Well, I don't actually know how to keep people from dying, but I'm sure we can figure it out together." So, so evil.

I'm sure I'll have more later. But definately add me to the list of people who thought this movie kicked serious ass.

[Mahaloth]

Originally Posted by Lord Ashtar

If I had to nitpick things I didn't like, I'd have to go with the fact that we still don't really know why Leia has memories of Padme and Luke does not.

Doesn't she just remember her adoptive mother?

[carlb]

Originally Posted by Mahaloth

Doesn't she just remember her adoptive mother?

In ROTJ, Luke asks Leia, "What do you remeber about your mother - your real mother?". I think this pretty clearly establishes that both Luke and Leia know she was adopted. I don't think we can chalk this up to anything but a big, gaping hole of a continuity error on Lucas's part.

I just realized as I was typing this that when Mark Hamill speaks this line, I think he sounds a little like Hayden Christensen.

Speaking of whom, he was much better this time around. I saw him emote! And I really liked Ian MacDiarmid's performance, especially the scene at the "Opera." He goes a little over the top once he's in full-on Emperor mode, but I thought he was really good.

You know, call me a nerd, but Ewan McGregor almost brought tears to my eyes in his last scene with Anakin/Vader. I thought he did anguish very well.

[Excalibre]

Originally Posted by Mahaloth

Doesn't she just remember her adoptive mother?

Couldn't she also just plain mistakenly think so because of grief? You can't take a character's words so literally - movie characters are not reliable narrators any more than people in real life are. People have bizarre beliefs in real life all the time. It's not necessarily a continuity error when the same thing happens in a movie.

[Cuckoorex]

I think that all of the prequels lacked souls. By that, I mean I never got a sense of genuine comraderie between any of the characters that was on any level comparable to the chemistry that we got to see in episodes 4-6 (especially TESB). Sure, the effects are way better, the lightsaber battles are cooler, but I couldn't really bring myself to care about these characters that much. Maybe part of it was knowing that Anakin would become Vader, but I never thought that his relationship with Padme was a deep, mature love — it still seemed like teenage angst and stilted dialogue — which is fine if that's what Lucas was going for, I guess.

I thought that Anakin's conversion was actually done a little too abruptly. I know that they've been building up to it through the previous movies, but he goes from being loyal to the Jedi to vowing to destroy them in about a ten-minute span.

I thought that the scenes of the Jedi being taken out were just wrong. We have by now gotten used to seeing a single Jedi with a lightsaber taking on dozens of battle droids and effortlessly turning aside a barrage of blaster attacks and using the force and so on, but the clone troopers are able to get the drop on them and take them out with hardly any resistance? And don't the Jedi have some kind of Jedi equivalent of Spider-sense or whatever? You mean that they were taken completely unawares? That didn't play out the way I hoped it would.

Yoda gives up because he fell? He tells Obi-wan that they must succeed in destroying the Sith, but he runs away after taking a little tumble? He has the ability, via the Force, to manipulate giant pieces of machinery but he can't slow his own descent? What, if the Jedi willingly jump down from a great height they're OK, but if they fall from that same height, they're screwed?

A good movie, but not great, IMO. I'll take TESB over any of the prequels.

[Merijeek]

Originally Posted by Cuckoorex

Yoda gives up because he fell? He tells Obi-wan that they must succeed in destroying the Sith, but he runs away after taking a little tumble? He has the ability, via the Force, to manipulate giant pieces of machinery but he can't slow his own descent? What, if the Jedi willingly jump down from a great height they're OK, but if they fall from that same height, they're screwed?

Actually, I think it was more a matter of Yoda just plain not winning and knowing it was going nowhere. How much longer could they keep it up before he was facing a couple hundred clone troopers as well?

Jedi can survive falls just fine. How would YOU handle falling a couple hundred feet? Probably not well enough to then crawl through who knows how many ducts.

-Joe

[Merijeek]

Other things that occurred.

1. When we see flame-broiled Anakin right before he gets his surgery I saw that he was missing most of his LEFT arm. When did that happen? Part of his triage or something?

2. I thought we were going to either hear from or see Qui-Gonn. Was it cut? Did I miss it? Anyone who read the book able to shed some light?

3. Regarding Palpatine's story about Ye Olde Sithe Mastere. I very much got the impression that the Sith Master murdered in his sleep was Palpatine's master. True or false? I also got the impression that Palpatine, using Olde Sithe Mastere's trick to get the midichlorians to create life absolutely used them to create Anakin.

4. I'm sure I'll think of more.

-Joe, virigne birthe

[Dob]

I liked it. It was better than the other prequels, but still not close to the originals.

thoughts:

Anakin turned to fast for me. He goes from cutting a hand off, to killing all the jedi, just to much.

The "love" scenes were BAD. Cringe bad.

Ewan is a great Obi-wan! Best actor probably in all the movies. Loved him

Yoda kicked ass. When he knocked those guards out the whole theater laughed and clapped...perfect.

I dont like the fact that Dooku died so easy. I mean he fought Yoda and Yoda couldnt kill him, but Anakin does after Dooku knocks out Obi-wan? But then Obi-wan kicks Anakin's ass...just didnt make sense to me.

[Soapbox Monkey]

Originally Posted by Merijeek

3. Regarding Palpatine's story about Ye Olde Sithe Mastere. I very much got the impression that the Sith Master murdered in his sleep was Palpatine's master. True or false? I also got the impression that Palpatine, using Olde Sithe Mastere's trick to get the midichlorians to create life absolutely used them to create Anakin.

Palpatine was talking about his master. But notice that although he promised Anakin he could teach him the power to manipulate life, once Anakin had turned, we learn that Palpatine really didn't know anything about it.

[Speaker for the Dead]

Originally Posted by Merijeek

Other things that occurred.

1. When we see flame-broiled Anakin right before he gets his surgery I saw that he was missing most of his LEFT arm. When did that happen? Part of his triage or something?

3. Regarding Palpatine's story about Ye Olde Sithe Mastere. I very much got the impression that the Sith Master murdered in his sleep was Palpatine's master. True or false? I also got the impression that Palpatine, using Olde Sithe Mastere's trick to get the midichlorians to create life absolutely used them to create Anakin.

1. I think Obi-Wan cut it off at the same time he cut off his legs.

2. I thought that, but as the movie went on, I also got the feeling that none of it was true, and Sidious was simply lying to Anakin to get him to turn. I think he was very relieved when Padme died (in the kind of neat self-fulfilling prophesy) and he didn't have to figure out something he knew he couldn't/didn't know how to do.

[Stephe96]

Here's my question: why doesn't R2-D2 remember that he can fly in the original "Star Wars?" That would've helped him get away from, say, those Jawas and whatnot....

[Electronic Chaos]

Originally Posted by Dob

I dont like the fact that Dooku died so easy. I mean he fought Yoda and Yoda couldnt kill him, but Anakin does after Dooku knocks out Obi-wan? But then Obi-wan kicks Anakin's ass...just didnt make sense to me.

I'm pretty sure Dooku took a fall purposefully. Granted, I don't think he knew he was going to die. Palpatine probably told him "I need your help turning Anakin, so after you take care of Obi-Wan, make sure to take a dive."

Originally Posted by Soapbox Monkey

Palpatine was talking about his master. But notice that although he promised Anakin he could teach him the power to manipulate life, once Anakin had turned, we learn that Palpatine really didn't know anything about it.

Actually I'm pretty sure he did. He just wanted to make sure that the only thing with any possibility of turning Anakin back to the light side had no chance of surviving.

The Emporer is a magnificantly deceptive bastard.

[Merijeek]

Originally Posted by Stephe96

Here's my question: why doesn't R2-D2 remember that he can fly in the original "Star Wars?" That would've helped him get away from, say, those Jawas and whatnot....

Why didn't the radio work in my 1988 Volvo two years ago?

-Joe

[Patty O'Furniture]

why doesn't R2-D2 remember that he can fly in the original "Star Wars?" That would've helped him get away from, say, those Jawas and whatnot....

He hever got his fuel tanks recharged.

Could I be a writer or what?

[Lord Ashtar]

Originally Posted by Merijeek

3. Regarding Palpatine's story about Ye Olde Sithe Mastere. I very much got the impression that the Sith Master murdered in his sleep was Palpatine's master. True or false? I also got the impression that Palpatine, using Olde Sithe Mastere's trick to get the midichlorians to create life absolutely used them to create Anakin.

I'm certain it was Palpatine's master who died in his sleep. Another thought I had was that his master was the one who created Anakin and Palaptine thought, "If I kill this guy in my sleep, not only will I become Sith Master, but I'll have a really kick ass apprentice." So perhaps it was Palpatine's original master who was Anakin's father.

[drm]

I found the relationship between Anakin and Padme completely unbelievable. I just didn't see how Padme could like him at all. He was a whiney pissant right from the first movie. Despite this, I thought the two characters were pretty well put together. I liked how Anakin was a touch ambiguous. He had a reason for turning besides the ultimate quest for power.

The dialogue, in spots, was terrible and I laughed out loud in a number of places. I tried to be polite though, they were mostly short bursts. There was so much potential in certain spots...

Despite that, I really liked the movie. The middle section during the rebellion and onward I was completely gripped, especially when the Jedi were being killed. I had my heart in my throat.

As should be obvious from my first comment, I found the reason for Padme's death a little unbelievable as, as stated before, I couldn't see how there would be any real feelings there. The real reason should be something along the lines of death because she was ashamed in her taste in a husband. That was only a small quibble really. It really wasn't the thrust of the ending and overall I was very pleased by it. All plot lines were tied together nicely and somewhat believably.

As far as the acting is concerned, Ewan seemed to do the best with what he was given. Sam was pretty good as well (as he always is). Natalie seemed robotic at times but was more than passable. Hayden was okay but that's about all I'll give him.

My mark on IMDB will probably be 7/10.

Oh, ILM and Skywalker Sound did a remarkable job. A little more bass than necessary at times but nothing major.

[AdmiralCrunch]

I don't know if this deserves a new thread, but here are some unanswered Star Wars questions that I have.
1) What's up with Dagobah? Where does the Dark presence come from in the cave? Why does Luke say there's something familiar about this place?
2) Why doesn't R2-D2 use any of his cool powers in the old trilogy? Flying and spraying oil are useful little tricks.
3) Why don't Yoda and Obi-Wan take Leia and Luke to train them? They need all the help that they can get in fighting the Sith. Even if they couldn't train them in the Force for fear of being hunted down, they could still teach them to control emotions and be restrained.
4) How does Leia remember her "real" mother?
5) How long does it take to build the Death Star? The first one takes at least 17 years, but the second is fully operational after only 4 or so years.
Finally, just an opinion. Would Mace Windu have killed the Emperor if Anakin hadn't shown up? I know he had forseen it, but it looked like using all that lightning took something out of him and he wasn't holding back at all.

[Bambi Hassenpfeffer]

General rambling:

Hayden Christensen

[Electronic Chaos]

Originally Posted by AdmiralCrunch

4) How does Leia remember her "real" mother?

Originally Posted by Return of the Jedi

Princess Leia: Luke, what's wrong?
Luke: Leia, do you remember your mother? Your real mother?
Princess Leia: Just a little bit. She died when I was very young.
Luke: What do you remember?
Princess Leia: Just... images really. Feelings.

I'm thinking the real reason is sloppy writing by Lucas. But this could be explained by the fact that Leia is Force-sensitive, and perhaps uses this to divine the past and "remember" feelings about her mother. Maybe things she picked up on in the womb...that sort of thing.

[Chronos]

The one thing cooler than Yoda kicking butt was Artoo kicking butt. Especially since he did it in such an Artoo-ish way. But Yoda just casually felling the two scarlet-robes was great, too.

I thought that the acting was better than I and II across the board; Portman in particular did a much better job in this one than previously. She still didn't come across as a great actress, but I wasn't cringing at her delivery. Even in the terrible romance scenes, one does get the impression that part of the reason they're so terrible is that the relationship (such as it is) is falling apart.

It seemed pretty obvious to me that Plagus was Sidious' master. Plagus taught his apprentice everything he knew... Sidious' mentor taught him everything he knew. Besides, how the heck else would Sidious know of Plagus?

The bit that puzzled me was why a droid would be always coughing and wheezing, and walk with an arthritic hunch. I'm told that Grievous wasn't actually a droid, but an organic with a bunch of droid parts, but in that case, why does the opening crawl say he was a droid? And even if his lungs were original equipment (which would explain the cough), wasn't his musculoskeletal system mechanical? So why can't he stand up straight?

[Bambi Hassenpfeffer]

Well that's embarrassing.

Round 2:

Hayden can't act to save his godddamned life. One of my seatmates is all "Look what he has to work with", but I point out that Ewan McGregor and Sam Jackson had the same crap, but they sold it.

No feminine hygiene commercial in the middle of this one. No giant tick rides. Thank God for that.

It's been almost 30 years, and that man still cannot write a believable love scene. Every time Padme and Anakin were speaking to each other, I was cringing. Deep-seated embarrassment for the poor actors.

The space battles were fantastic this time around and the effects were good. He doesn't have the all-digital set thing quite right yet. The Jedi Temple still looked off to me. Much better than in 1 and 2 though.

Padme had a lot of really (really) bad hair and lighting. She's ordinarily so gorgeous, but during the scene on the balcony, near the beginning, she turned toward Anakin when he says something like "you're so beautiful". She had this nasty hair mess and a really awful hag face, and it was mostly the lighting and makeup. My seatmate was again smacking me -- between Anakin telling her how beautiful she was and her shooting him with her hagface, I was giggling uncontrollably.

Also (because I'm only 12 inside) when Palpatine asked Anakin whether the Jedi Council had done something "to make [him] feel dishonest", the only thing I could think was "SHOW ME ON THE DOLL WHERE HE TOUCHED YOU".

Yoda with the guards? Funny as hell. Everyone cheered that where I was.

R2 with the ass-kicking? Also funny as hell.

Overall, much, much better than the first two. I was dreading what he had for us in this one, but I was pleasantly surprised.

[Merijeek]

Originally Posted by Chronos

The bit that puzzled me was why a droid would be always coughing and wheezing, and walk with an arthritic hunch. I'm told that Grievous wasn't actually a droid, but an organic with a bunch of droid parts, but in that case, why does the opening crawl say he was a droid? And even if his lungs were original equipment (which would explain the cough), wasn't his musculoskeletal system mechanical? So why can't he stand up straight?

Grievous is definitely a cyborg. His meaty bits were shown quite clearly several times.

The exact phrasing in the crawl is "fiendish droid leader, general grievous". More clear Lucas writing - it could mean that he is a droid that is a leader or a leader of droids.

The cough is explained by the meat lungs.

As for the hunch, who knows? Maybe whatever Grievous originally was (before being cyborged) is normally hunchbacked so those are the devices he chose off the rack?

I was kind of disappointed in General Grievous just because, well, he was kind of a wuss. It seems like almost all he ever did was run away. Compare that to the psycho killer from the cartoons...

-Joe

[Rashak Mani]

Originally Posted by Asylum

After watching this movie I can totally buy Anakin going to the dark side and becoming Darth Vader.

YOU CAN ?! I thought it was totally unconvincing ! Pathetic is closer to what I feel about the changing to the dark side.

The romance was unconvincing too... dumb script.

[SpartanDC]

I loved it, and I know that unlike the other two prequels, my love for this movie will not fade once my rose-colored fanboy glasses go away. Here's why: I actually cared about the plot, and found the non-action scenes as interesting as the action ones. When I made myself watch Episode II a couple nights ago, I was pretty much just waiting for the end (I'm like this when I watch ROTJ, too). When I watch this movie at home at some point, the only scenes I'll probably get up to use the bathroom/make a sandwich during is that awful scene that opens with Padme brushing her hair. Ugh, George, what made you think that sounded good?

Also, I thought Hayden did a really good job this time around. Despite having bad dialogue to work with, he tried his hardest to create some chemistry between him and Natalie Portman, and sometimes they even pulled it off (no thanks to her... she seemed intent on delivering most of her lines like she was deliberating in the Senate). And he plays conflicted and downright evil very well, to the point that even though I knew he'd become Darth Vader, I found myself hoping that, somehow, it wouldn't happen. Like, I was genuinely happy he told Mace Windu that Palpatine was a Sith lord. But Palpatine, of course, had to keep f'ing with his mind and heart.

Related to that, loved the wordless scene of Anakin and Padme both looking out the windows. Very, very nice music there that set the mood perfectly.

I've already seen it twice, and I've choked up both times during the Jedi purge montage and the end when Obi-Wan says "You were my brother! I loved you!" Excellent work from Ewan.

Loved the opera scene, too, and all the Anakin/Palpatine scenes. Ian McDiarmid rocked in this movie, and frankly I'm glad he played the Emperor as being ridiculously over the top, because that's how he is in ROTJ, too.

Anyway, a fitting end and a deserving one.

[Balthisar]

Complaints: theater was way the hell too loud. Like painful to the ears at times loud. Not George's fault, I guess. Also, the whole thing was dubbed in Spanish (but incredibly well done; Darth Vader even sounded like Darth Vader!)

So, I went to the 12:01 am showing here, too (we're on Arizona time here, whatever that is). I'll have to go watch Episode IV again, but I'm almost ready to say that this was the best Star Wars ever. Come on, it wrapped up everything nicely, the effects were great, and I have the advantage of not really having to experience the US acting that everyone seems to hate. As soon as I have a chance, I promise to see it in English. Remember that beggers can't be choosers.

As for Anikan's conversion to the dark side: it was completely credible. You know how everyone says evil's so evil 'cos it doesn't know it's evil? That applied really nicely in Anikan's fall. From his perspective, his plotting, Jedi masters are trying to effect a coup d'etat. Compounded with his wife's impending deadly childbirth and the Chancellor's manipulation, I have no trouble sympathizing and totally understanding and possibly even supporting what he did (remember, he's not an omnicient viewer as are we).

[ISiddiqui]

From another thread:

LOVED IT!

What a fabulous movie! As I was saying, all the prequals were leading up to this and it sure did not dissapoint. The CGI which looked somewhat cheesy back in TPM is jaw dropping here. This is the best looking movie I've ever seen. It blows LOTR trilogy out of the water. The action is non stop and the dialogue isn't bad (as good as the original trilogy). McGregor is perfect as Obi-Wan, Christensen plays Anakin well, and McDiamid is excellent as Palpatine.

I would have liked to have seen Anakin's fall more streached out, but the movie was over 2 hours as it was! That said, I was satisfied that keeping Padme alive turned him.

And I like the visual touches at the end. Padme's burial procession shows that they faked the twins dying when Padme did.

And how much fun to see a proto-Death Star?

I'd have to say this is perhaps the best Star Wars movie aside from ESB.

I give it an A!

Also I liked Palpatine's 'aging'. It seemed he planned it way to make him look more weak (the whole goal was for Anakin to betray Mace Windu) and to show the Senate how he'd been betrayed by the Jedi.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Cuckoorex

I thought that Anakin's conversion was actually done a little too abruptly. I know that they've been building up to it through the previous movies, but he goes from being loyal to the Jedi to vowing to destroy them in about a ten-minute span.

Well I thought it was convincing. Anakin brought the news to Windu and then Windu tells him to wait in the Council like a good little boy. Anakin feels the Jedi don't respect his power. And while in the Council he gets scared that the only person who truely knows him (Padme) will die soon. That conglomeration of feelings leads him into the wrong path.

Originally Posted by Cuckoorex

I thought that the scenes of the Jedi being taken out were just wrong. We have by now gotten used to seeing a single Jedi with a lightsaber taking on dozens of battle droids and effortlessly turning aside a barrage of blaster attacks and using the force and so on, but the clone troopers are able to get the drop on them and take them out with hardly any resistance? And don't the Jedi have some kind of Jedi equivalent of Spider-sense or whatever? You mean that they were taken completely unawares? That didn't play out the way I hoped it would.

I think they were shocked and had no idea what was going on. Their own forces had turned against them and they lost focus of battle and where flabbergasted this was happening.

Originally Posted by Cuckoorex

Yoda gives up because he fell? He tells Obi-wan that they must succeed in destroying the Sith, but he runs away after taking a little tumble? He has the ability, via the Force, to manipulate giant pieces of machinery but he can't slow his own descent? What, if the Jedi willingly jump down from a great height they're OK, but if they fall from that same height, they're screwed?

As stated earlier, Yoda realizes the battle cannot be won. Palpatine is too powerful to fall to Yoda. So he decides to fight another day.

[SpartanDC]

Originally Posted by Cuckoorex

We have by now gotten used to seeing a single Jedi with a lightsaber taking on dozens of battle droids and effortlessly turning aside a barrage of blaster attacks and using the force and so on, but the clone troopers are able to get the drop on them and take them out with hardly any resistance? And don't the Jedi have some kind of Jedi equivalent of Spider-sense or whatever? You mean that they were taken completely unawares? That didn't play out the way I hoped it would.

To add to ISiddiqui's reply, it had also been established since Episode II that the Jedi's ability to use The Force had been diminishing. Since this move, Order 66, was totally driven by the Dark Side, it's completely understandable that the Jedi had no clue what was going on.

As wrong as it was for Anakin to turn and help dismantle the Jedi, the Jedi Order did have flaws (namely pride and naivete, or however that's spelled), along with the Republic itself. Anakin was indeed powerful enough to see this, but Palpatine's manipulations ensured that he went about "correcting" those flaws the wrong way.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by SNenc

As wrong as it was for Anakin to turn and help dismantle the Jedi, the Jedi Order did have flaws (namely pride and naivete, or however that's spelled), along with the Republic itself. Anakin was indeed powerful enough to see this, but Palpatine's manipulations ensured that he went about "correcting" those flaws the wrong way.

Quite right! This is why I don't think the Jedi were idiotic to take him on when they thought he'd "bring balance to the Force". There probably were plenty of Jedi who thought things were not going as they should and Anakin would help bring the Force to what it should be and end the arrogance of the Council... unfortunetly they let him be controlled by Palpatine (part of their arrogance and naivety).

[SlyFrog]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

As stated earlier, Yoda realizes the battle cannot be won. Palpatine is too powerful to fall to Yoda. So he decides to fight another day.

Once again showing the ultimate message of the Star Wars films; no matter what is said, in reality the Dark Side is stronger than the Light Side. Strongest Dark Side guy is stronger than the strongest Light Side guy (I don't give a crap about Mace Windu, and there are plenty of theories why he was not stronger).

Corollary - For Light Side to defeat Dark Side, Light Side practitioner must go slightly apeshit Dark Side himself, at least for a period of time, during the fight.

Why oh why must they make the Dark Side practitioners stronger? Wouldn't it be nice to see the example of the true Light Side master whose serenity and quiet strength actually allows him to beat somebody of equal stature? I suppose Obi-Wan, in the last part of the 3rd movie, is a half-way decent example. That's about it as far as I can tell.

[Ludovic]

Originally Posted by SlyFrog

.Strongest Dark Side guy is stronger than the strongest Light Side guy...

In the same way that Sauron was "stronger" than Gandalf (yeah, non-interference, I know...)

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by SlyFrog

Corollary - For Light Side to defeat Dark Side, Light Side practitioner must go slightly apeshit Dark Side himself, at least for a period of time, during the fight.

That depends. After all, you've already talked about Obi-Wan. He didn't flirt with the Dark Side at all during the fight with Anakin, at least as far as I can tell. Palpy is stronger than anyone in the movies though... with the possible exception of Luke (and that's in the Extended Universe).

[Excalibre]

Originally Posted by Ludovic

In the same way that Sauron was "stronger" than Gandalf (yeah, non-interference, I know...)

See, it's an interesting point . . . almost every fantasy epic has opponents stronger than any of the good guys (but then, it's hard to construct a story otherwise.) However, strength is also always implicitly associated with worthiness and "specialness" - thus, the bad guy is always stronger, because he has powers that the good guy is just too damn moral to use.

[MaxTheVool]

Originally Posted by Excalibre

And despite every other flaw, it could have been good if the two leads had been capable of carrying off their roles. But they weren't. I couldn't sense any chemistry whatsoever between Christensen and Portman.

I agree that the love scenes and dialog weren't GREAT. But then, I didn't think they were terrible, either. But more importantly, the Annakin-Palpatine and Annakin-Obi Wan relationships were just as central, if not more so, and I thought they were both fine.

And it's ironic that given the crappiness of these two leads that they had the youngest (second-youngest? Was Jodi Foster younger?) Academy Award nominee ever in the cast - with no lines.

Anna Paquin? Haley Joel Osment?

Or some other idiocy: the Wookiee are supposed to be primitive - so they fight with blasters shaped like crossbows.

A traditional Wookie weapon. Or at least, one that Chewbacca used in Return of the Jedi. It was a bit weird then, and is still a bit weird now, but is doing nothing but carrying over continuity from the original trilogy.

Anakin and Obi Wan are fighting several feet above actively-churning lava. Not only were their bodily fluids not boiled off, but Obi Wan wasn't even visibly sweaty, and Anakin wasn't either until one of the final close-ups.

(a) they're Jedis
(b) they little platforms they were riding were design to be rid around by people on lava, and had little force screens supporting them that you could see from time to time. It would make sense for those force screens to have thermal insulation of some sort

Count Dooku and Chancellor Palpatine were hanging out in the most exposed section of the ship during an enormous space battle, and when the ship crashed into a planet, burning off about half of it in the process, that little spire somehow survived.

Now you're just plain wrong. They found palpatine in the spire, but then (in a lengthy action sequence involving the floor turning sideways and an elevator shaft) brought him back down to the main part of the ship, then were captured and taken to the cockpit where Grievous was.

By the end, I was expecting no major character to have any hands left. How many behandings must there be in a movie?

Four characters get hands chopped off, by my count:
-Dooku
-Grievous
-Mace Windu
-Annakin

If you think about it, that's probably a pretty likely way for a lightsabre-duel-to-the-death to end.

Plus, in the scene where Anakin wakes up from a nightmare, did anyone notice the jewelry Padme was wearing, and the strings of pearls sewed onto her nightgown? WTF? She would have strangled herself in her sleep!

Yeah, that was weird.




Oh, and by the way, back when Episode II came out, there was a tidbit up on starwars.com with a fake news article about how the flying jets on an R2-series astromech droid have only a limited lifetime.

[Dio2112]

Best. Star Wars movie. Ever.

Utterly mind blowing. Now we can forget that Episodes I and II ever happened. 3, 4, 5, and 6 are the complete epic.

Totally different feel from the first 2 prequels. The most Star Wars-y feel since Empire Strikes Back.

Still stunned 14 hours after seeing the midnight premier. Gonna see it twice more tonight.

And those reviewers who said the acting was wooden, did we see the same movie? I thought it was pitch-perfect, only one line I would have changed (the "You're beautiful." "Only because I'm in love." exchange).

Gut wrenching scene at the end with Obi-Wan almost crying his lines over a burning Anakin. "You were the Chosen One. You were supposed to destroy the Sith, not join them. You were my brother." Cinema gold.

The CGI was flawless, totally seamless--way, way, way ahead of its time technically. This movie is like Return of the Jedi in that it will take many years for another picture to look as good in the SFX department.

The montage of Jedi being cut down by Order 66 felt like that part in The Godfather when Corleone has all of his enemies killed in one long montage with epic music playing. When Ki-Adi-Mundi is leading a charge on that cold and barren planet, and turns around wondering why his clones aren't following him, and is then slaughtered in a hail of gunfire--pathos beyond description. What a lonely, sad way to die.

I was very concerned that this movie would make the Dark Side seem "cool". Haha what a misplaced concern. The Dark Side is way not cool. It's sick, twisted psychopathic, "Consume you it will." The perversion, the psychopathic sickness of what it does to you is no fun at all. Watching Anakin carry out his Sithly duties, knowing full well he can't go back, knowing he's made a terrible choice but he can't retract it--the tears he sheds as he goes about the evil he is now required to commit. What a sock in the gut. Wow, just wow.

The emperor. When he's telling Anakin about how he killed his master, Darth Plageuis--shades of Hannibal Lecter there. He almost laughs at how his master taught him everything he knew, and then Sideous casually wasted him in his sleep. Sideous looks down to the right and smiles as if he's fondly remembering the night of his betrayal.

I could go on and on. I'm 37 years old, having seen ANH and ESB in the theater at ages 9 and 12, and never thought it was possible to regain that same feeling I had coming out of those 2 movies. The first 2 prequels let me down so badly, I had no expectations whatsoever for this one. George, I owe you an apology. It is clear that this was the movie you wanted to make all along. Rock on!