I have been cast as a born-and-bred New Yorker, fictitious humor columnist Colin Kitteridge, in Fred Carmichael’s “Coming Apart.” The character is opinionated, often wrong, somewhat self-centered, vain, and more apt to respond with a quip than with a real heartfelt opinion. But that’s the character talking, not the city.
What can you tell me about the differences between someone growing up NYC, and in another part of the U.S.? I don’t want to play “caricature New York guy” but a real (flawed) person who happens to live there.
I grew up in a leafy upper middle class suburb in NJ, my wife grew up in the Bedford-Stuyvesant area of Brooklyn in the 60’s and 70’s. AFAIK it was one of the worst of a slew of bad neighborhoods in NYC. Your character probably grew up in a nicer neighborhood.
One immediate difference was our reactions to darkness. We’d be outside in the middle of nowhere (I’m talking middle of nowhere Utah or Arizona), and I’d be like “ooooh, look at the stars” and she’d be like “RUN!!!” For me, dark=OK, for her dark=get the hell out of there.
She spent most of her time inside. Either her mother or grandmother (another difference: I had mom and dad, she had mom and grandmom) wouldn’t let her out or she’d stay in because the tough kids were either harassing her or stealing her money/halloween candy/whatever. I spent a great deal of time outside in the woods exploring, running around, being a pyro, etc.
When we’re camping out or up at the cabin, she’s convinced some cracker’s going to roll up and kidnap her or the girls or cause some form of mayhem. This doesn’t occur to me at all.
My mom’s side of the family are all born in and about NYC. As a resident of NYC, I have met plenty of born + bred New Yorkers.
What I can tell about people who have lived in New York all their lives is that they tend to be “older” than people of the same age. Like they’ve pretty much seen it all before. To a certain extent, it’s kind of a worldly but at the same time haven’t been past the Hudson River mentality. If you live in Manhattan, there’s an attitude that anything and anyone not from Manhattan is B&T (Bridge & Tunnel)
New Yorkers do everything quickly and with a purpose. We (well “they” since I technically live in Hoboken, NJ now) tend to be, if not outright friendly, at least talkitive. It’s kind of a sarcastic, mocking wit. Think Seinfield or Friends. We do actually sit there at work poking fun at each other.
New Yorker’s world is actually pretty small. We tend to think in “neighborhoods”. I lived in the East Village, my buddy moved to Flat Iron, another friend lived in Hell’s Kitchen. A lot of people also think in terms of ethnicity - Italian, Greek, Asian, etc)
I’m not from New York, but one thing I’ve noticed from memoirs and other personal accounts is that kids seem have a lot more geographical independence, due to the excellent mass transit, than kids in other places who have to be driven everywhere they want to go. From the age of 12 or 13 on, if they want to go somewhere in the city, there’s a subway or bus that goes there. Besides leisure pursuits, they probably take public transit to school and back, just like adult workers–another instance of them being “older”, as msmith537 says, than kids who are driven and picked up by their parents.
That seems to me like it would be so great for kids anywhere; it’s sad theat elsewhere they have to rely on parental chauffeuring and this has come to be accepted and normal.
“World-weariness” may be the word you’re seeking, msmith.
Would it be fair to say that New Yorkers generally are more vocal about their opinions? I’ve noticed a tendency that people I meet from New York are very sure of their opinions, stating them almost as if to defy you to contradict them.
I say this because it seems to me from distant Seattle that if you want to visit the art museum, you can go to the one Seattle Art Museum, or not go to any (because there’s really only one). In New York, you have your choice. MOMA or Guggenheim?
Same with sports: in Seattle you can be a Seahawks fan, or not watch football, or have some other favorite (because you moved to Seattle from elsewhere). The question is, “Did you watch the game on Sunday?” New Yorkers can pick Yankees vs. Mets, Giants vs. Jets, and so on, but this suggests you hold a strong opinion one way or another (and probably be called upon to defend it, because in a big city there’s always somebody who’s going to challenge it).
I grew up in NYC in the mid-80s. I lived in an up & coming type neighborhood. Park Slope is now one of the “fancy” Brooklyn neighborhoods but back then we had crackhouses on the block and a biker bar on the corner (but we liked the bikers, cause they kept the crackheads in line). Depending on the age of your character he has probably witnessed some down & gritty years in the city as well as increasing gentrification over his lifetime. Although, that depends where he grew up as well. The Upper West Side has always been nice, even in NYC’s leanest years.
-New Yorkers usually feel like safety=other people. They prefer busy public places and being in groups. Quiet private places can make them nervous (especially if they are a woman, or alone) because that is where Bad Things Happen. (this is along the same lines as Dark=Bad as stated by a previous poster.) They may think of street noises like buses going by and people outside talking as friendly, comforting noises rather than annoyances. Many native New Yorkers can’t sleep if it’s too quiet.
-New Yorkers like to know something other people don’t. They like to have some special inside knowledge, and disdain anything too well known or famous. For example to get Italian pastries, tourists go to Ferrara’s (located in Little Italy), New Yorkers go to Veneiro’s (located on a side street in the East Village). There’s probably an even better, even less well known place I’m not cool enough to be aware of.
Or the Metropolitan Museum of Art, or the Whitney, or the SoHo Guggenheim, or the Museum of American Folk Art, or the Brooklyn Museum, etc, etc, etc… New Yorkers are more likely to attend specific shows or events than to just go to a Museum to wander around.
I was born in New York City and I live nearby. I get in there every few weeks, and I hope to move back there soon.
Related to a couple of msmith’s points: New Yorkers value competence. I’ve tried to think of a less pretentious-sounding way to say that, but nothing came to mind. What I mean is that New Yorkers get annoyed by people who look like they don’t know what they’re doing. The city is a busy place and everybody’s going somewhere, so dawdling (unless you’re in a park or something) is frowned on as a general rule. This is probably related to Spectre’s comments about independence.
I don’t know if I’d say New Yorkers are world-weary exactly. But they’re not easily impressed. New York has a lot of everything (except trees and clear streets): museums, theaters, culture, sports teams, and so on. I think New Yorkers feel, and like to feel, that you can’t show them anything they haven’t already seen because the great city has everything. So when tourists go wandering around staring at the buildings…
I think the opinionated-ness stems from this. When people value their independence and feel they’ve seen it all, naturally they’re confident in their opinions.
The quipping is just something people do. There’s such a long tradition of New York sarcasm. Part of it might be the desire to look like you’ve got a handle on everything. If you’re playing a writer, he’d probably want to look like he’s quick-witted.
I’m a NYer born, bred, educated, and jaded, but I also need more specifics about your character. One good place to start is WHERE in NYC is he from? A Brooklynite is far different from a Manhattanite, and a Staten Islander is almost nothing like either of them. Within each boro there are absurdly varied neighborhood as well. Give, give.
I’m a NYer born, bred, educated, and jaded, but I also need more specifics about your character. One good place to start is WHERE in NYC is he from? A Brooklynite is far different from a Manhattanite, and a Staten Islander is almost nothing like either of them. Within each boro there are absurdly varied neighborhoods as well. Give, give.
I was wandering the same thing. What religion, what years, etc.
My mother grew up in Astoria, Queens, where her family had settled after moving to NYC from Puerto Rico, in the 50s and 60s.
I’m sure her experience in the city was quite different from say a Jamaican from Bed-Stuy or a Russian from Brooklyn.
Although one thing is true, I think most people in NYC (and major cities in general) tend to know more about other ethnicities/religions/etc. than other areas. The foods, the customs, the holidays and traditions, etc.
I think Lenny Bruce once said “If you live in NY, even if you’re Catholic, you’re Jewish.”
In my first casual reading of the show I didn’t see anything very specific about background or ethnicity other than that he’s a successful syndicated columnist, married to a successful romance novelist, and is in his early 40s. Together he and his wife own a condominium; no kids, no pets.
There is a mention that he and his friend Bert go to drink at a club (not well defined), and sometimes to the Garden to watch hockey (what team plays there?).
I’ll look again for more information on my next reading.
If there are no clues in the play (and there may not be) then how do YOU want to play him? As a spoiled guy who grew up rich, as a streetsmart wise guy, as a sophisticated dabbler in the fine arts?
I appreciate the inquiry, but figuring out how to play a character wasn’t the part I wanted help with. I’m more looking for input on big-city thinking — preferably from New Yorkers, since the L.A. mindset isn’t quite the same.
Not a New Yorker, but a veteran of numerous business trips there.
What always struck me about New Yorkers is that, while they can be exceedingly friendly and helpful, they’re at the same time right in your face.
A typical answer, when I asked for directions, would be something like this:
YOU WANNA KNOW HOW TO GET TO THE SUBWAY??? I’LL TELL YOU HOW TO GET TO THE SUBWAY!!! YOU WALK DOWN TO THE CORNER, RIGHT THERE! YOU SEE IT? THEN TURN RIGHT. GO DOWN TO THE NEXT CORNER. THERE’S A GOOD COFFEE SHOP THERE SO GET YOURSELF A CUPPA, Y’UNNERSTAN? WHEN YOU COME OUT OF THE COFFEE SHOP, TURN RIGHT, WALK A HALF BLOCK AND THERE’S THE SUBWAY. BE SURE AND HAVE EXACT CHANGE FOR THE TOKEN!!! YOU GOT THAT???
Grew up in Queens (Bayside) until I went to college. I’ve lived all over the country since. Here are a few things you might think about.
I agree you need to decide what neighborhood this character grew up in, and ethnicity.
New Yorkers are fast. Speak fast, walk fast. When I lived in Louisiana, I walked twice as fast as the average person.
New Yorkers are not scared of public transportation. They’re more likely to be wary of cars. (But those in the boros aren’t.)
If you live in Queens, you go into the city when you go into Manhattan.
New Yorkers tend to take everything in stide. When I was a messenger I stepped over all sorts of stuff. When my daughter first came into the city to audition, she noticed the trash in the streets. She soon got used to it.
New Yorkers never take the first paper from a stack, always the second. (The first is dirty!) I never noticed I did this until it was mentioned in the Times. It was automatic.
A lot of other characteristics I can list are Jewish ones. I agree with psycat. There is a lot of Yiddish words thrown around by people of all religions. There are also all kinds of jokes that are in jokes - like “Practice, Practice.” I’d suspect your character reads the Times - you should start if you don’t already. One thing I’ve noticed is that a lot of the headlines for the soft stories assume all sorts of knowledge - far more than in any other paper I’ve seen.
Is this a movie or a play? You can tell New Yorkers from tourists on how they cross the street. I’ve always considered Dustin Hoffman as Ratso banging on the car hood and yelling “I’m walkin’ here” as the Platonic New York pedestrian moment.
The hockey team at the garden (ie Madison Square Garden) would be the Rangers.
By the way there are three hockey teams that New Yorkers might potentially follow. The New Jersey Devils, The New York Rangers and the New York Islanders.
The Devils’ home ice is at the Meadowlands. I don’t think Jimmy Hoffa is buried under the home goal, but I could be wrong.
The Islanders’ home ice is Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Uniondale, NY.
Back to your original question: I thought of a few more things.
-Absolutely every restaurant and many businesses in NYC deliver within a 10-20 block radius of their location. Many apartments have very small kitchens, so ordering in is pretty common.
-(and this is one of things that makes it very different from LA) New Yorkers walk a lot. A four or five block walk (roughly 1/4 mile) is not considered a long distance to the nearest subway or bus stop. If you grew up in New York you would have a fairly encyclopedic knowledge of the fastest way to get from one place to another – walking, subway, cab, or bus – depending on the time of day and other factors. Most New Yorkers do not own cars at all, or if they do own them, use them rarely.
-Speaking of cars, if you grew up in New York City you would probably not know anyone from your high school who died in a drunk driving accident (most teens do not have cars of their own, most are not licensed before high school graduation, New York State has a stepped licensing program). Your high school probably did not offer Drivers Education as a class. If you drive at all, you probably got your license during college or later.