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#1
02-13-2006, 02:09 PM
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Why is vaginal penetration the only definition of sex for some people
So a friend and I are discussing a topic which I'm sure was discussed here back in the days of Bill and Monica ... but why do some people consider vaginal penetration to be the only definition of sex? And I'm not talking dictionary definition but more ethically.
Why do some people only consider it to be cheating if vaginal penetration occurs? If two people are in bed, naked together, experiencing orgasms etc without vaginal penetration, isn't it still cheating (if one or the other of them is married to someone else)? (I guess this belief is the same reason that has lead to the purported increase in oral sex and anal sex among girls who make vows to remain virgins ... sure they are technically virgins, but they seem sexually active to me.) 
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#3
02-13-2006, 02:21 PM
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I think it's up there with the folks who believe that French fries off someone else's plate don't have calories.
 That said, I was raised with this belief (re sex, not calories). Not that oral etc wasn't cheating (heck, looking with the idea of finding is cheating in my book), but that intercourse was penetration. Sex=intercourse for me; any other sex is qualified by the adjective in front of it, oral, anal, car, phone, cyber or mutual __________(fill in the blank).
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#4
02-13-2006, 02:49 PM
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I was actually about to post an IMHO thread on this.
I was going to ask: If someone asks you if you had sex with someone, what acts would constitute a 'yes'? People keep saying that other things should constitute sex, but when it comes down to it, if John asks Bob if he had sex with Cindy, and Bob and Cindy just got each other off with no penetration, should/would he say yes? And what did John mean? In spite of protestations to the contrary, I think when most of us ask about sex, we only mean vaginal penetration.
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#5
02-13-2006, 02:49 PM
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Not so much "definition" as "defense."--"We didn't have sex blegal ecause the privates didn't come in contact." At one time, penetration was the only definition of "rape," a crime that has since been changed to "sexual assault."
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#7
02-13-2006, 03:01 PM
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Some ladies don't count it (oral or mutual masturbation) because it means their total number of sex partners number goes WAAAAAAAY up.
 I've heard from that from three different girls.
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#8
02-13-2006, 03:07 PM
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Obligatory Clerks Reference:
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#9
02-13-2006, 03:21 PM
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Cheating---if he kisses someone else I'd consider that cheating
Sex--I personally don't count it as sex unless penetration has occurred. It's just a satisfaction thing for me. Manual or oral orgasm doesn't equal the satisfaction I get from sex.
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#11
02-13-2006, 05:57 PM
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In my book, if you're playing with genitals, it's sex. Different kinds of sex, different kinds of virginity, but doing any of it with someone else while you're seeing someone is still cheating.
I think some people use the "it wasn't real sex" justification when they're in trouble, or when they don't want to look slutty.
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#12
02-13-2006, 06:02 PM
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#13
02-13-2006, 06:11 PM
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I have a friend who claims that everything except vaginal isn't sex. Meaning that oral, anal, hands, and booby-lovin' is not counted under "sex"- heck, she doesn't even count these as "sexual relations" or "sexual acts". Seriously. What does she label them as? Making out, of course.  In her case, I think she is just trying to justify her sluttiness. I know many girls that don't want to be labled as whores, so they actually, vaginally fuck a low number, but let the entire neighborhood titty fuck them. It's not slutty- afterall, it's just making out!
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#14
02-13-2006, 06:15 PM
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"Did you have sex." can be answered "no" innocently enough even as you recall getting under someone's bra for a 15 minute romp in the broom closet.
The question's too narrow. Sure, the intent of the question is known, but 'that's not what you asked.' Might as well ask, "Did you eat hog's eyes at lunch?" Sex is sex. If you're interested in a more broad spectrum of behavior, ask about that.
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#15
02-13-2006, 06:15 PM
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Well to the grand majority of the populace to grand majority of the last couple of centuries I think it would go that:
Vagina = Sex Mouth = Felatio (which looks mispelled...?) Hiney = Buggering As to why it should be okay to do one and not another.... I believe that the loophole probably existed even before the first law was ever chiseled into stone. AKA, people lie to themselves, and enjoy it immensely.
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#16
02-13-2006, 06:15 PM
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The drum remark was IF we had actually had vaginal sex. Preview is my friend.
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#17
02-13-2006, 08:41 PM
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 Count me in with Indygrrl and eleanorigby. Romantic overtures towards anyone other than your partner is cheating, even if there isn't any physical affection. I tense up even at the idea of flirting. Admittedly, though, my threshold is set pretty low in light of recent experience. In fact, I'm gonna go start a thread on the subject. I'm real damned curious as to how anyone can see physical displays of romance as anything BUT cheating and not be in denial. As for what constitutes sex, I would say that the various forms of diddling constitute intimate sexual behavior and are distinct from "going all the way." In terms of morality and *ahem* accounting purposes that distinction still stands. But discounting blow jobs or cunnilingus as being in some sort of "gray area" is akin to saying that charcoal is the same as light gray by virtue of neither being black nor white. Alternatively, one could say that an analogous situation would be fighting in terms of a couple arguing versus fighting in terms of two drunks slugging it out. They're both forms of conflict, but still different.
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#18
02-13-2006, 08:48 PM
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#19
02-13-2006, 08:49 PM
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#20
02-13-2006, 08:50 PM
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Historically, the Virgin Test, as applied to females, invovled the inspection of the hymen, which, it was assumed, was only broken by penetrative intercourse.
Pragmatically, the reason for defining "actual sex" as being only penetrative sex is to enable the other stuff to be viewed lightly, as in "just fooling around." STD-wise, any mutual involvement of genitalia and mucus membranes represents significant risk for many STDs. From a disease standpoint, any of it can lead to disease.
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#21
02-13-2006, 08:51 PM
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#22
02-13-2006, 08:55 PM
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#23
02-13-2006, 09:14 PM
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Any form of romantic interaction with someone that is not your partner is cheating, especially if it involves physical contact. When it is not physical, it's harder to define because in that case you have to take intentions into account. Personally, even flirting upsets me because of my recent experience. And in order to avoid hijacking this thread, I'm going to start my own about that experience.
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#25
02-13-2006, 10:06 PM
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#26
02-13-2006, 10:07 PM
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#28
02-14-2006, 12:52 AM
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wow, i've had the triple posts before..but that's rather impressive.. keep up the faith, brother
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#29
02-14-2006, 12:54 AM
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and um...in WHICH neighborhood do you live in again? *grabs pen and paper*
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#32
02-14-2006, 09:14 AM
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How can I put this?
Vaginal intercourse is the only "real" sex for me, because the quality of the connection (emotional and spiritual as well as physical) I can make with my partner is several magnitudes greater than from any other activity. Yes I can have orgasms and give my partner orgasms from any number of other activities, but nothing gives me the same level of connectedness with my partner and that sense of completeness. Having said that, I'd consider anything more than mild flirting to be infidelity. Just because I don't put oral sex etc on the same level, doesn't mean that I find it any more acceptable for my partner to do those things with anyone else!
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#33
02-14-2006, 10:35 AM
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Cheating — Nothing is "cheating" unless you violate a promise that you made and then keep silent about having done so. If you don't promise exclusivity, having sex with other people isn't cheating.
Answering the OP —It's obviously a plot to keep from having to acknowledge that lesbians have sex with each other! Seriously (or semi-seriously, at least): much of the activity that is discounted as "not really sex" between hetero folks would be found on the list of entree options on the lesbian menu. While I don't really think there's a conscious conspiracy ("Hmm, I know how we can discredit dyke-sex! Let's define sex in such a way that what they do doesn't count!"), isn't it interesting how the cultural attitude towards lesbian sex is that it's hot, and sexy, but somehow unimportant (if the same female also has sex with guys, or even more so is part of a menagé a trois, the stuff she does with another gal is perceived as part of the build-up or foreplay)? For perspective, reverse the sexes. If Tom and Harry and Sally are sharing a romp in a big bed, and Tom and Harry have sex together and then they each do Sally, do we think of the boy-boy action as a prelude, or is Sally still kind of a garnish to a mostly gay male-bonding experience? And also: does it make a difference if the sex between Tom and Harry involves penetration? Does it make a difference what orifice gets penetrated?
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#34
02-14-2006, 11:38 AM
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The friend with whom I have been having this discussion has recently had too much experience with the attitude that 'the only real intimacy is sex' or 'it's only cheating if you have intercourse'. I thought the best way to give my friend a wide perspective on this attitude was to ask the teeming masses. I think that that Antigen hit the nail on the head by saying it is just a way to justify behaviour.
I can relate to irishgirl in that I find vaginal intercourse as the 'best' kind of sex for me - I find the orgasm during intercourse to be the most complete/full/intimate as opposed to any orgasm from masturbation/oral sex. (Mr. Amethyst and I agree on this - the orgasm from masturbation/oral sex is perhaps more physically intense but not as intimate/complete). What I find most enjoyable notwithstanding, I personally believe that cheating includes more than just intercourse ... I would consider cheating to include a whole gamut of things including romantic kissing or flirting with intent/sexy flirting.
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#36
02-14-2006, 06:35 PM
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