It’s easy to say like penis in vagina = sex, but would you really consider a straight couple who rubbed the penis on the vagina a tiny bit during foreplay less virginal than a gay couple who have had anal sex hundreds of times?
Personally I’d say if you have had vaginal or anal sex and it went all the way in, there was thrusting, etc, that’s what I’d consider virginity. For lesbians it’s somewhat more complicated though…
No. Let me try to explain it to you in a different way…
Need answer fast?
Since there is no longer any legal reasons to define virginity, each person can define it how they wish. It’s not like we are promising virgin daughters in exchange for land these days.
I go with any sexual contact between two or more people that results in orgasm or would normally result in orgasm. This would include vaginal sex, anal sex, falattio and mutual masterbation.
The P’S definition would mean there would be an awful lot of gay men who have had 30+ partners who would be shocked to learn they are still virgins. Ana sex is not an activity all gay men participate in. There are many who never do.
Heterosexually, I draw the line at penis in vagina intercourse.
Homosexually, I don’t really care I guess.
That said, “virgin” is an interesting reflection even on modern sexuality. Suggest that someone with 100 homosexual partners is a “virgin” because they never had heterosexual sex and suddenly the word becomes super-important and people start getting offended. We still obviously put a lot of importance on it.
some consider more than one
orifice or activity
It’s probably useful to start dividing up virginity for different acts. “I’m an anal virgin, but…”
Why do you care? Why does it matter whether someone “counts as a virgin” or not?
I remember the first time I had sex. We were together for several hours, and on the walk back home, I remember thinking “I feel like a different person. I feel like I’ve experienced something profound, and it has changed me in a fundamental way.” The thing is, there was no actual penetration on the part of either of us. But there’s no doubt that I had lost my virginity.
Anything done with another person of appropriate gender that can be reasonably expected to produce an orgasm. Whether it actually did the first time does not matter.
On preview, I agree with post #4.
So, if you found out that your girlfriend had been giving head to your best friend behind your back, would you feel that she had been sexually faithful to you?
At some point I realized “virginity” is a politically-loaded construct, by which I mean it is both hetero-normative and that it has, not just its historical roots but chunks of its definition embedded in patriarchal concerns about reproduction and property and female-as-commodity.
** rethinks this approach, climbs off soapbox **
Let’s cut to the chase with a different knife, shall we? Suppose I was a lesbian. What behavior can I engage in with my lesbian girlfriend that will make either of us a nonvirgin?
Now let’s suppose I’m not a lesbian. If I engage in that same behavior am I somehow no longer properly de-virginated?
As a guy whose attraction was towards female people, I did things with girls in junior high and high school that were erotic and resulted in orgasms. Like everyone else, I was handed a definition of “virgin” (and of “sex”) that specified that on the basis of those activities alone I was still a virgin who had not had sex.
Why is that relevant? If we were all 14 and I learned she had done so much not had penetrative vaginal sex, I’d be mad but I wouldn’t say she lost her virginity.
Likewise, plenty of people would be mad and consider it infidelity if their partner engaged in group (non-mutual) masturbation with someone else but no one would sanely say that’s how you lose your virginity.
De-virginated?
How about this: You cease to be a virgin when you “go all the way” with someone. What constitutes “all the way” varies depending on your imagination, your anatomy, and that of your partner, but if there’s something you’re still “holding back”, or “saving for the right person”, or “just not ready for yet”, or whatever, you’re still a virgin.
Having an orgasm in the presence of another person. That’s the only definition I like. The ones in the OP are very phallo-centric.
Using this definition would mean that most women I know didn’t lose their virginities til their late 20s, and generally with someone they had a meaningful connection with.
Does the other person have to be aware it’s happening?
It’d also make the phenomenon of virgin birth a lot more common.
Consensually having an orgasm in the presence of another person, with them helping you achieve it. I like to think someone whose only sexual experience was rape is still a virgin.
Elaine: Hey Jerry when do you consider that sex has taken place?
Jerry: I would say when the nipple makes its first appearance.
There you go. Nice fine-tuning to my definition which leaves room for creepy jacking off in a closet or whatever.
And that Jerry! You know that means Elaine had sex with all those people she sent that Christmas card to!