Yes, I know that this is an odd question. How could I not know? But sometimes a change in perspective can lead us to new conclusions…
For the longest time, I assumed I lost it to my first love/kiss/screw at age XYZ. But perhaps this was mistaken programming. You see, I had always considered myself heterosexual, at least 90% so. Ergo, no matter what I had done with dudes would not “count.”
Further, according to my mistaken worldview, gays had anal sex. That was “their” sex, and unless they actually did that, they were not having sex with each other. I had never done that either, so I had never had gay sex. Simple.
But two pieces of information have entered my mind since then. One, my gay friend told me, “F*cking is something I do not do.” He said this almost derisively. I found out that many gay men just simply don’t like anal sex. So (and correct me if I’m wrong) a gay guy could say “I had him” even if he had only given him a hand job, for instance.
Two, remember the whole Bill Clinton thing, and the very wide definition they had for “sex”? If he touched her tits, that was sex, according to those rules.
Putting this all together, am I to conclude that I lost my virginity with a male my age–way back when? Or does the fooling around that young people do not “count” either? To me it was a pleasant, non-shameful experience, but I had never thought of it as “sex.”
Gay and straight dopers, please let me know what you think.
If I’m correctly translating your post, you got a hand job from a guy when you were younger and want to know if that counts as having lost your virginity to that guy?
That’s up to you to decide. I’ve gone back and forth on a similar question myself, having done everything but penetrative anal with a guy starting at age 12. But I never had an orgasm, although he did. So did he have sex with me and I didn’t have sex with him? That makes no sense so I gotta go with we both had sex.
I don’t suppose you could contact the guy and see what he thinks about it? That’d be interesting to find out.
Personally? Yuppers, you lost it way back when… but I define sex as an action culminating in an orgasm for a participant. This includes wanker as well as wankee, if one got off, it was sex.
Personally, I find the double standard rather rude. Why should some guy salivate at the thought that if he had his dream 3some, he could have 2 women and in general the second woman may ‘lend a hand’ by taking mr happy and aiming him for best insertion and then lending a little tongue action and he is pretty much normal, but if I want to see a woman with 2 men, and one man lends a hand to get the penetrator in without any other ‘assistance’ oral or otherwise being done to the man that is just wrong and perverse…
I tend to think that people in general may actually tend to be more bisexual than society thinks…and that it is society’s moral conditioning that is screwed up. I have heard of an aweful lot of guys who have had mutual fun when young, and didnt really think anything about it.
I don’t think I had an orgasm. I don’t know if I was capable of having one yet. Then again, maybe I did–this was 25 years ago.
I don’t know about the “orgasm” definition, although I see where you’re coming from (pun intended). If a guy bones a girl and doesn’t come, he’s still clearly had sex with her.
I think for most hetero dudes the definition of “sex” is pretty much in line with Clinton’s logic: if you don’t stick it up and in, it don’t count. But this definition won’t work, otherwise we end up telling large numbers of people that they’ve never had sex at all (non-anal gays and pretty much all lesbians).
The definition of “cherry losing” for a male is kind of up in the air. But I would consider it to mean the first shared sexual experience. Which is what you had.
I’m not sure I agree with this. My first “shared sexual experience” involved mutual hand jobs, and I did not consider this to be losing my virginity. Neither did my boyfriend.
I think virginity is a very personal thing. I think that once you are as physically intimate with a person as you ever plan on being with anybody, then you have lost your virginity. So, if I give somebody a handjob, I’m still a virgin (this is a hypothetical me, btw), because there are things that I could and WOULD do that are far more physically intimate. THere are gay men who never have and never will have anal sex, because they don’t want to. Are they all virgins if all they do is give and receive oral pleasure? I dont’ think so, because there are using their bodies in the most intimate way that they are willing.
Anyhow, this is all just my opinion, and I’m sure my logic (and probably grammar) is flawed, but I’m very tired.
I know a 21 year old male who I believe is intelligent and above all has proven to be reliable and honest. His future however, if he choses to continue to work for me in my boatworks business is limited unless he can make a breakthrough in rudimentary math. I realize he was under pressure, but when asked to divide 70 inches into two was unable to respond. I knew he had difficulty with math and assumed whem left alone that he could muddle through but this latest failure has me really concerned. Any suggestions?
Part of the problem with questions like this is that the word “virgin” is really somewhat antiquated in it’s connotation. At one time its primary meaning was for a woman who had not been sexually penetrated. The breaking of the hyman offered a tangible symbol of lost “virginity.” It was a chauvanistic demarcation designed to protect questions of paternity.
The word doesn’t really mean anything anymore. There is no “official” definition of what constitutes virginity and what doesn’t. That’s what leads to stuff like girls who claim to be “saving themselves” but will engage in oral sex.
I think a better word than virginity would be chastity, and what constitutes a sexual experience can be rather broad.
So, Aeschinesk, I would say that you lost some degree of chastity with your first sexual experience (and you know if an experience if was “sexual” or not), but there really is no factual answer to your question about “losing your cherry,” since there is no good definition for what constitutes a “cherry” for men.
You are right that not all gay men engage in anal sex, in fact I’ve been told by gay friends that most of them don’t- at least they don’t do it much- but that oral sex and mutual masturbation are more common. I would not say that these men are “virgins,” nor would I say that about lesbians who have oral sex with other women but have never had intercourse with a man.
Sex does not equal intercourse.
Maybe the best way for you to define is just to say that you had your first sexual experience with a male. That doesn’t make you gay, by the way. A lot of heteros have early same-sex experiences.
Does the technical virginity matter? It’s very possible to be sexually experienced and retain virginity. Still, if you are polling for definitions, then IMHO penetrating or being penetrated is the determining factor. Handjobs, kissing, rubbing, oral - sexual activity but not loss of virginity. In my opinion.
And whatever you willingly do with guys does “count”. It’s part of who you are. I believe denying or minimizing your sexual inclinations will only cause more problems for you than trying to pass. If you like women, fine. If you like men, fine. If you like both then you double your chances for a date on Friday (to paraphrase Woody Allen).
I also believe it is possible to have had homosexual encounters in the past without being homosexual in the present. There’s a simple litmus test. Ask yourself (and answer honestly) “Am I sexually attracted to members of the same sex?”
In short, if you penetrated him or he penetrated you then yes, you lost your cherry to a guy. If you were just touching, kissing, rubbing, etc… then you had a sexual encounter but remained a virgin.
And, most importantly, if it was consensual it doesn’t matter.
You’ll notice I didn’t say it wasn’t intimate. It is however, not the MOST intimate thing I would do with somebody. That may not be the case for some people though.
Color me surprised. My definition of virginity is different than those in this thread.
Virginity is never having had “that kind of” sex. Unmodified, it assumes the norm: man/woman penetration. But you could still have your oral virginity, gay virginity, lesbian virginity, etcetera.
I mean, just because you’ve given a handjob doesn’t change how your first intercourse is going to go. And that in turn won’t change how losing your anal cherry will be.
I understand. I just think that a lot of people (I’m not including you in this) seem to find technical “loopholes” for what really “counts” or doesn’t.
Some people will call themselves “virgins” if they only give hand jobs or oral sex, but you can bet they would consider it cheating if their husband got a hand job from someone else.
I’m just saying that technical definitions of “virginity” and “sex” don’t truly reflect emotional reality.
I personnally think restricting the definition of “sex” to penetration is pretty weird and hypocritical. But I think too there’s probably something cultural here, because from what I gathered reading the debates on this board, it seems that’s it’s a rather common school of thought in the USA.
On a closely related note, I also noticed that oral sex is apparently not considered as serious or intimate as intercourses in the US, in particular (still my observations on this board, I might be wrong) amongst teenagers who apparently indulge much more easily in it before going to the “real thing”. Which is quite weird to me, since over here, oral sex tends to be deemed more intimate. Your average french teen will have an intercourse long before he’ll get a blowjob, generally (handjobs don’t count, though).
True. Still, if my boyfriend made out with somebody else (or if I did), I would consider that cheating, though I think we can all agree that is not sex. I don’t think you have to have “sex”, whatever your definition, to be unfaithful.