I never feel actually _happy_ about anything

[Frylock]

Here's what I mean.

I don't always feel sad.

And I often feel generally, vaguely, "satisfied," as in, I think to myself, "Yeah, things are going the way I'd like them to go, and so I do not feel at all unhappy."

But I never actually feel happy.

For example, I certainly never feel excitedly happy.

Nor do I even ever feel "calmly happy." What do I mean? Like, sometimes, my wife will turn to me while we're doing something nice, and she'll have a big grin on her face, and she'll say, "This is perfect." Or whatever. And its clear she literally is feeling something, which I am quite sure would be called the feeling "happiness." But... I never get that. As I said above, the best is a feeling I would express by saying "Nothing's going wrong, and I don't feel sad, so, okay."

Recently my friends at school and I all "passed portfolio" which means, basically, our department has certified that it likes us, expects good things from us, and will keep us around for a few years. Everyone else was ecstatic on hearing the news they had passed. Big smiley faces, lots of happy laughter and celebration, and so on.

Me? I was kind of sitting in the corner looking around pensively. I just wasn't happy. I was satisfied, but not happy.

So like... is this how it is for a lot of people? Or do I have a problem?

-FrL-

[Care Bear On Fire]

yes I know exactly what you mean. I'm almost always content, but it never really goes beyond that.

Every once in awhile I get a kind of "high" that feels like..."yah, this is life." Which may be what people feel when they are happy.

Also excited. Never feel that one. As far as I know i'm in no way depressed i'm just never happy or excited either. Stupid brain chemicals.

[Quiddity Glomfuster]

Oh gosh! I am happy very often. Lots of things make me happy. I've felt the whole gamut of happy from amused to ecstatic/joyous. In fact, I've felt sometimes that I was so happy I could literally burst, which is why my post-death plan is to have my ashes be part of a firework - finally that exuberation will be expressed.

I know I'm lucky in this and it's obvious to me that it's chemical because one day in my cycle is pretty much guaranteed to be euphoria day. I'm not manic and don't suffer from wild swings, but I am easily moved and will tear up at sad music and various other things.

Have you ever had a psych evaluation?

[fessie]

How did you feel in anticipation of Christmas (or something equivalent) as a child?

[Sage Rat]

There are different levels of sociopathy in the world. But lacking being able to be exuberant yourself doesn't mean that you're screwed. Vicarious joy gets better the more people you can effect. And that's probably a better thing to be able to get than first-person joy.

[Frylock]

Originally Posted by fessie

How did you feel in anticipation of Christmas (or something equivalent) as a child?

My childhood memories are always pretty fuzzy, but I do remember that my brother and sister would go kind of nuts, and I did not. But I do think I was happy, even excited, when I got something I really wanted.

I don't really remember TBH.

-FrL-

[Caridwen]

I think your probably normal. Everyone reacts differently to situations.

[Yag Rannavach]

Originally Posted by Frylock

So like... is this how it is for a lot of people? Or do I have a problem?

That's how it is for me, though I don't really feel sad, either. I probably would have responded the way you did to hearing that I passed portfolio. As for whether it's normal or not, well, I have no idea, but it seems like a waste of time to worry. If it starts to have a negative impact...you can always fake it.

[Alan Smithee]

Sounds like you could have dysthymia. It isn't likely to change in a big way, but therapy and/or drugs could have some effect.

I am not a doctor or psychologist.

[sugar and spice]

Well, as for your example, I have to say that I don't think you're reaction is unusual at all. I mean, it would be really upsetting if you did make the cut, but passing really just means that you made it to the next level -- the game is still going on. Keep in mind that in a small group emotions tend to resonate. One person gets excited and it bounces off of everyone else. It might be that you don't pick up others emotion that easily (and don't feign enthusiasm, which is what a lot of people do instinctively).

But what about here? I mean, you seem pretty excited.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

I kinda feel the same way. I don't get really happy or sad. I think I'm just very meh. I think I'm a happy person (at least I don't feel like a drag). Maybe it's my social awkwardness...then again, I'm good with people.





Meh.

[Bootis]

I suggest taking up high stakes gambling, with more than you can afford to lose. Youll probably end up being quite unhappy in the end, but somewhere along the line you'll experience the euphoria you're lacking once or twice.

[Bobotheoptimist]

In the immortal words of Mr. Waturi -
"So what! Do you think I feel good? Nobody feels good. After childhood it's a fact of life. I feel rotten. So what? I don't let it bother me. I don't let it interfere with my job."

Then again, you might have a brain cloud.

[Bootis]

more seriously though,

Originally Posted by sugar and spice

I mean, it would be really upsetting if you did make the cut, but passing really just means that you made it to the next level -- the game is still going on.

perhaps this is the reason? take for example, a football game. some players joyfully celebrate all the good things that happen throughout the game, fewer others do not because the game is not over.

or maybe you hold back happiness because you know it would be temporary and you dont want to have to "come down"

Or maybe you hold back happiness, because in the movies (or books) whenever everyone seems happiest, they are most vulnerable to the inevitable peril/bad news/shark ramming their boat

[Frylock]

Originally Posted by sugar and spice

Well, as for your example, I have to say that I don't think you're reaction is unusual at all. I mean, it would be really upsetting if you did make the cut, but passing really just means that you made it to the next level -- the game is still going on. Keep in mind that in a small group emotions tend to resonate. One person gets excited and it bounces off of everyone else. It might be that you don't pick up others emotion that easily (and don't feign enthusiasm, which is what a lot of people do instinctively).

But what about here? I mean, you seem pretty excited.

Key word "seem" if you see what I mean. I can do whatever I want in writing.

-FrL-

[BarnOwl]

I get absolutely ecstatic about my identical twin grandchildren.

I can get that way in their presence or not - just thinking about them. I mean I was whomped out with pneumonia, feeling rock bottom rotten because it was night time, I was lying in bed, and couldn't sleep. Then I thought about those kids, how wonderful they are and my very being was swept through with such happiness my heart went pitter patter and I felt right with the world. I don't know if I fell asleep soon after, but I remember that things weren't so bad, after all.

Grabbing a cigarette outside of work on a summer day, I looked at my gorgeous little Miata and experienced untrammeled joy at the sight of it. And it's a used car!

I took my brand new RWS Model 48 air rifle out in the back yard, loaded it, closed the breach and took my first shot at a dead-ish tree. The whole experience was a study in joy for me.

Frylock, you and all the others who are like you in this regard need help—i think.

Like has wonderfully joyful moments. Smell the flowers and let your heart go pitter patter, for crying out loud.

[Heffalump and Roo]

Originally Posted by Bobotheoptimist

Then again, you might have a brain cloud.

You must have a story behind your username, but the posts that I remember most (perhaps selective perception) have been pessimistic ones. It always cracks me up to see a pessimistic post by Bobotheoptimist.

[Heffalump and Roo]

Frylock,

Your OP interests me greatly. I've been reading on the subject of happiness lately and the book Stumbling on Happiness by Daniel Gilbert is interesting me greatly. In the book, the author tries to explain from a scientific and neurological point of view why achieving happiness is so difficult. But as far as defining it, he talks about the subjective feeling of happiness. As far as quantifying it, he says this:

If we were to reserve the word happiness to refer to that class of subjective emotional experiences that are vaguely described as enjoyable or pleasurable, and if we were to promise not to use that same word to indicate the morality of the actions one might take to induce those experiences or to indicate our judgments about the merits of those experiences, we might still wonder whether the happiness one gets from helping a little old lady across the street constitutes a different kind of emotional experience--bigger, better, deeper--than the happiness one gets from eating a slice of banana-cream pie. Perhaps the happiness one experiences as a result of good deeds feels different from that other sort. In fact, while we're at it, we might as well wonder whether the happiness one gets from eating a slice of banana-cream pie feels different from the happiness one gets from eating coconut-cream pie. . . .How can we tell whether subjective emotional experiences are different or the same?
The truth is we can't. . . .

So from that, I think it's difficult to quantify the subjective experience both from one person's point of view but also between different people.

And here's another quote that might be helpful. In Scientific American Mind in the Feb/March 2007 issue, there's an article Why It's So Hard to Be Happy by Michael Wiederman. He suggests, "Instead of equating happiness with peak experiences, you would do better to think of happiness as a state of contentment and relative lack of anxiety and regret."

So it seems like this is already working for you.

[jsgoddess]

Originally Posted by Alan Smithee

Sounds like you could have dysthymia. It isn't likely to change in a big way, but therapy and/or drugs could have some effect.

I am not a doctor or psychologist.

That's what came to mind for me too. I am also not a doctor or anything. My husband has been diagnosed with dysthymia. I'd say he's not as likely to call himself "content" though.

[Yag Rannavach]

"Instead of equating happiness with peak experiences, you would do better to think of happiness as a state of contentment and relative lack of anxiety and regret."

I would have to disagree with this. Existing in a constant state of contentment is...hard to describe. The best I can think of is "nothing". There's no reason to get out of bed, no reason to stay in bed. There is a lack of anxiety and regret, but there is also a lack of everything else. This isn't depression, as there is no associated sadness, and it's not like you want to stay in bed, it's just that you have nothing better to do.

That is not a state of being that is desirable to anyone except those who haven't been there.

If we were to reserve the word happiness to refer to that class of subjective emotional experiences that are vaguely described as enjoyable or pleasurable, and if we were to promise not to use that same word to indicate the morality of the actions one might take to induce those experiences or to indicate our judgments about the merits of those experiences, we might still wonder whether the happiness one gets from helping a little old lady across the street constitutes a different kind of emotional experience--bigger, better, deeper--than the happiness one gets from eating a slice of banana-cream pie. Perhaps the happiness one experiences as a result of good deeds feels different from that other sort. In fact, while we're at it, we might as well wonder whether the happiness one gets from eating a slice of banana-cream pie feels different from the happiness one gets from eating coconut-cream pie. . . .How can we tell whether subjective emotional experiences are different or the same?
The truth is we can't. . . .

This strikes me as a repeat of arguments in the philosophy of language. However, he seems to be aruing that I cannot know if my subjective experiences are the same between eating a banana pie and helping an old lady across the street. Accepting this argument as provided raises some very thorny issues. The first is that, if we extend this, then we cannot know whether or not feeling we get from, say, being attacked in the subway is the same as the feeling we get from helping a friend. This is an absurd conclusion, so the answer to this question "how can we tell whether subjective emotional experiences are different or the same?" is not "we can't".

We can easily tell if we are feeling the same thing between events. With this assumption we have a basis for explaining to others what those states are. Obviously, descriptions aren't going to be perfect, but this launches us solidly into the realm of language. Assuming we accept that communication is possible, there is no reason not to assume that communication of emotional states is outright impossible. Perhaps we need better words to describe certain things, but lacking the ability to communicate perfectly does not mean we lack the ability to communicate.

[pokey]

When I was a kid I was happy sometimes I think but I know that around the time I was ten I stopped feeling it and couldn't remember for sure if I was even happy as a kid or just sort of pleased. Then one day in my late 20s one day I was lying on the couch and I became really happy. I know it was the pot but I'd smoked pot before and never had that reaction. So that really made me realize what I'd been living without. I was disturbed to find out how it felt to be happy and felt more than a little ripped off. However, it was an isolated incident. For another 4 years or so it never happened again. I only smoked pot maybe 5 times in my life and I think that was actually the last time I ever did. It's not a habit of mine.

Then a couple of years ago I started to feel happy on a regular basis. I don't really know why. I would just be looking out the window and feel really happy, or be making dinner and feel good and feel happy that I feel good. Now I just feel happy a few times a day. It's a weird feeling like maybe something good is going to happen and I don't know what. I don't try to think about it too much or that would ruin it. Like if I think it through, what's going to happen? I don't know why this happens but it's really nice.

[jsgoddess]

Originally Posted by pokey

It's a weird feeling like maybe something good is going to happen and I don't know what. I don't try to think about it too much or that would ruin it. Like if I think it through, what's going to happen? I don't know why this happens but it's really nice.

I get the opposite one. All of a sudden, something terrible is going to happen and I can't stop it. It doesn't matter that the bad thing has never happened yet. (At least, when I'm expecting it.)

Blah.

[Yag Rannavach]

I get the opposite one. All of a sudden, something terrible is going to happen and I can't stop it. It doesn't matter that the bad thing has never happened yet. (At least, when I'm expecting it.)

The bad thing is just preparing itself. You'll see, in about 20 years all of the stored up bad things will happen at once.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Originally Posted by BarnOwl

I get absolutely ecstatic about my identical twin grandchildren.

I can get that way in their presence or not - just thinking about them. I mean I was whomped out with pneumonia, feeling rock bottom rotten because it was night time, I was lying in bed, and couldn't sleep. Then I thought about those kids, how wonderful they are and my very being was swept through with such happiness my heart went pitter patter and I felt right with the world. I don't know if I fell asleep soon after, but I remember that things weren't so bad, after all.

Grabbing a cigarette outside of work on a summer day, I looked at my gorgeous little Miata and experienced untrammeled joy at the sight of it. And it's a used car!

I took my brand new RWS Model 48 air rifle out in the back yard, loaded it, closed the breach and took my first shot at a dead-ish tree. The whole experience was a study in joy for me.

Frylock, you and all the others who are like you in this regard need help—i think.

Like has wonderfully joyful moments. Smell the flowers and let your heart go pitter patter, for crying out loud.

It's not that I don't get the little joys in life. I'm happy with all the little joys in life, but I'm not really referring to that. If I were told that I accomplished something I were working on, it'd be a very temporary and fleeting euphoria followed by "okay, let's get back to work and make it better".

Meh?

[BarnOwl]

Originally Posted by Least Original User Name Ever

It's not that I don't get the little joys in life. I'm happy with all the little joys in life, but I'm not really referring to that. If I were told that I accomplished something I were working on, it'd be a very temporary and fleeting euphoria followed by "okay, let's get back to work and make it better".

Meh?

Your reaction to the smaller things in life are normal.

But suppose you make a MAJOR accomplishment. You wouldn't be riding a big high all day long? You couldn't sit back and say, "Damn! Life is great!!" ? I hope so.

But poor Frylock doesn't know what it's like to be ape shit happy. I feel so sorry for him and others in the same boat.

[Squink]

Originally Posted by BarnOwl

But suppose you make a MAJOR accomplishment. You wouldn't be riding a big high all day long?

Post accomplishment letdown is pretty common.
Here it is in athletes

Even with the best preparation, however, there will be a natural motivational lull. When you’ve spent months working toward a specific event and you’ve reached the finish line of a significant physical test, even the most focused athletes experience a psychological letdown. The challenge has motivated you to be regular with your exercise, to keep pushing your endurance limits on long runs, and to reach down deep for motivation and the strength to go on. Like any almost unique lifetime accomplishments, the day of achievement is an emotional peak day, followed by a downturn.

and soldiers

Following the ground war in Iraq, mental health personnel were proactive in facilitating and conducting post-battle and post-trauma debriefings. They taught leaders how to recognize and deal with "cease-fire letdown," a reaction to the decrease in tension after combat in which some soldiers engage in daredevil behavior. This behavior, which led to death and injuries, was identified for the first time following the Gulf War.[14]

It happens in grad school, and real life too. It sucks when it happens too fast.

[Quiddity Glomfuster]

Originally Posted by Yag Rannavach

I would have to disagree with this. Existing in a constant state of contentment is...hard to describe. The best I can think of is "nothing". There's no reason to get out of bed, no reason to stay in bed. There is a lack of anxiety and regret, but there is also a lack of everything else. This isn't depression, as there is no associated sadness, and it's not like you want to stay in bed, it's just that you have nothing better to do.

That is not a state of being that is desirable to anyone except those who haven't been there.

I don't believe that's what's meant by contentment. Contentment includes a peaceful, comfortable feeling. If you don't go someplace, it's not because you have nothing better but because you are happy where you are.

I would look into getting checked for depression. You don't have to actively be sad to be depressed; being unmotivated is a symptom.

However, some people with depression don't feel depressed at all. Rather than sad, they feel lifeless and empty. In this apathetic state, they are unable to experience pleasure. Even when participating in activities they used to enjoy, they feel as if they're just “going through the motions.”

From here

[Yag Rannavach]

Originally Posted by Quiddity Glomfuster

I don't believe that's what's meant by contentment. Contentment includes a peaceful, comfortable feeling. If you don't go someplace, it's not because you have nothing better but because you are happy where you are.

Ah, I was using it to mean satisifed with the way things are. And taking satisfied to mean that your desires are met (and they are, since you don't have any).

I'm not sure how else to describe it...it isn't depression. There's a lack of motivation, sure, not because everything is hopeless, but because you have no reason to do anything. Not "if I do this it won't matter", but "I don't care if I do this or not".