Mafia: The Conspiracy: The Forbidden Thread

[Pleonast]

This thread is for outside observation on the Mafia: The Conspiracy game.

If you're playing in the game: STAY OUT. Since players can come back to life, I ask recently killed players to stay out of here until I confirm their final demise. Be careful about revealing important information in any case. And since some dead players can still participate, they'll have to stay out until the game is over.

Everyone else, feel free to speculate. There'll be lots of false claims and other potential treacheries, so observation should be fun.

[NAF1138]

Originally Posted by Pleonast

This thread is for outside observation on the Mafia: The Conspiracy game.

If you're playing in the game: STAY OUT. Since players can come back to life, I ask recently killed players to stay out of here until I confirm their final demise. Be careful about revealing important information in any case. And since some dead players can still participate, they'll have to stay out until the game is over.

Everyone else, feel free to speculate. There'll be lots of false claims and other potential treacheries, so observation should be fun.

WOOHOO!

I have been looking forward to watching this game more then most of the television that is starting this week.

I am crazy excited.

[NAF1138]

oh and by the way. If anyone wants to play but didn't make it into Pleo's game, Kat and I need a sub for the off board game.

The board is here: http://psychopathgame.proboards106.c...?board=firefly. PM me or Kat either here or on that board.

Last time I will plug the game I am running (probably).

[USCDiver]

Posting to Subscribe... this game was too complicated for my simpleton brain to grasp, but I may be available for subbing if necessary, so let's keep the information to the minimum here.

[NAF1138]

Hey, so the game has started!

It's Night so nothing interesting is likly to happen for a little while. But who knows, major points of discussion in the Firefly game were generated by people's behaviors durring the first Night.

Anyone other than USC and myself watching this thing?

[Pleonast]

Well, I'm watching. In the same sense a referee watches a game.

So far, it's been rather calm. Do you think Dopers are now experienced enough at these games to avoid the raving accusations? Or, since everyone is a "power" role, will everyone try to lay low?

[NAF1138]

Originally Posted by Pleonast

Well, I'm watching. In the same sense a referee watches a game.

So far, it's been rather calm. Do you think Dopers are now experienced enough at these games to avoid the raving accusations? Or, since everyone is a "power" role, will everyone try to lay low?

That is actually what I am most interested to see. With no vanilla town, and with everyone knowing there is no vanilla town, I am wondering if the "traditional" style of game play, as we have come to know it here, will change.

I think the game won't work if everyone tries to lay low. Laid back playing and "flying under the radar" will hand the game to the scum, because the town will never get any information. So eventually that tendency will break. But my prediction is that we will have a period of more relaxed and quiet play as everyone tries to feel out what is going on.

[zuma]

Idle is on the right track, I think. They're just going to badger people into role claims day 1 anyway. A mass claim, investigators be damned, seems the way to go. I could be wrong though...

[NAF1138]

Originally Posted by zuma

Idle is on the right track, I think. They're just going to badger people into role claims day 1 anyway. A mass claim, investigators be damned, seems the way to go. I could be wrong though...

They only thing that I can see going wrong is it taking too long to sort out the confusion of false claims. Otherwise, I too think it is a good plan.

[Pleonast]

Giving anything away, I'll say the Sides are balanced, even taking into account ploys such as limited and mass Role claims.

[USCDiver]

Originally Posted by NAF1138

They only thing that I can see going wrong is it taking too long to sort out the confusion of false claims. Otherwise, I too think it is a good plan.

Pleonast has mentioned several times that not all roles will be used in the game. All the scum has to do is wait until all the townies have claimed and then either claim Freemason or one of the unused roles. Then the town is fucked.

[zuma]

The proper way to do it would be to set up as random an order as you could, or just use the player list, so scum couldn't wait until the end.

[Pleonast]

Looks like the players are starting to parse the rules carefully. I've had several PMs with questions, two general enough to put the answer in the game thread. I'm archiving all PMs on the secret site, so it'll be possible to see everything at the end of the game.

[NAF1138]

Originally Posted by Pleonast

Looks like the players are starting to parse the rules carefully. I've had several PMs with questions, two general enough to put the answer in the game thread. I'm archiving all PMs on the secret site, so it'll be possible to see everything at the end of the game.

Good idea. Seeing what the players were thinking durring the game is always the most interesting thing.

[Pleonast]

Ah, looks like the voting deadline and the cold realization of what "everyone can role-claim" means has finally started some blood fights.

[NAF1138]

Lord this game is compelling. Nice work Pleo.

Question, I have seen this acronym: BUTTVAASTIAST
a couple of times at this point, but somehow missed the original non-acronym version of the phrase. What does it mean?

[Pleonast]

Originally Posted by NAF1138

Lord this game is compelling. Nice work Pleo.

Question, I have seen this acronym: BUTTVAASTIAST
a couple of times at this point, but somehow missed the original non-acronym version of the phrase. What does it mean?

Hmm, I'm not sure, either! They're keeping me busy with votes and PMs.

[NAF1138]

Interesting about Dio voting in red, not once but twice (once unsuccesfully). I know he knows what the vote colors are because they are the same as in Firefly (where he has voted and unvoted numerous times.) I wonder what it might mean. I don't think it is an accident.

[NAF1138]

Wow, Day 1 was exciting! I thought that Rysto's no lynch movement might have picked up enough steam to work. Shame that the boards going down put a crimp in the towns plans. Maybe they will plan better next time.

[Pleonast]

Well, too bad for One and Only Wanderers. Lynchees cannot come back from the dead, but it's better if he doesn't say much here until his Role is revealed to the Town.

I got to say my early ruling about board outages was rather prescient.

[Pleonast]

The first Night ended and we have two kills. And some investigation results, so the Town is completely in the dark. I wonder how they'll handle toDay.

[NAF1138]

I too find it interesting that amrussel was attacked Blaster, and I would like to hear from the coroner...but not because I think he was telling the truth.

[Pleonast]

Originally Posted by Pleonast

The first Night ended and we have two kills. And some investigation results, so the Town is completely in the dark. I wonder how they'll handle toDay.

"is not completely in the dark"

Well, a Coroner will be easy enough to verify, eventually. At the end of toDay, everyone will see the Side of OaOW. So, if sachertorte is lying, he'll get caught, and they can lynch him on Day Three... A nice two-Day delay if he's scum.

[panamajack]

Originally Posted by NAF1138

Lord this game is compelling. Nice work Pleo.

Question, I have seen this acronym: BUTTVAASTIAST
a couple of times at this point, but somehow missed the original non-acronym version of the phrase. What does it mean?

Near as I could tell,

[Bandwagonning? U?] The? Third Vote[r?] as a Scum Tell Is A Scum Tell.
[Buttering Up?]

I didn't see who actually posted it first, or if someone filled in the phrase?

It'll be interesting to see if there are multiple "lame duck" role claims that can pile up while waiting for results, and if the scum will use it to their advantage.

[USCDiver]

Bringing Up The Third Vote As A Scum Tell Is A Scum Tell

[NAF1138]

Originally Posted by USCDiver

Bringing Up The Third Vote As A Scum Tell Is A Scum Tell

Thanks. I had figured out that it related to the whole third vote thing, but couldn't for the life of me figure out the exact wording. It was driving me nuts.

BTW we need another sub in the firefly game. The newbies keep dropping out.

If anyone over here wants to join up PM me or Kat.

[Pleonast]

From post 684 in the game thread:

Originally Posted by Hockey Monkey

It has crossed my mind that the Coroner is one of the roles not used in the game. Pleonast made the slow reveal a big part of the game dynamic, and to put in a player that can circumvent the system like that....well, I don't think it would be something I would do as a Moderator of this game. However, I am willing to wait until Sachertorte is wrong before lynching him, because if he IS a real Coroner, then his information is extremely helpful and we need to keep him around.

I can't really respond there, but I want to describe my thinking.

The slow release of Side info hinders the Town and makes it easier for false claimers. And the slow release of the Role hinders the scum sides, since it takes them a while to know when they've hit someone important. The Coroner Role was created to circumvent the slow release, but at a cost: both Town and scum will get the information early. To get this information out reliably, a Coroner will have to claim. And then be vulnerable to being targeted.

When/if a Coroner is confirmed, the Town may come to rely on the instant information reveal, only to have it taken away again. There's only a limited amount of protective Roles in this game, not everyone with an important Power can be saved.

Edit: fixed url.

[USCDiver]

Do we get to have an Idle Thoughts freak out now?

[Pleonast]

Originally Posted by USCDiver

Do we get to have an Idle Thoughts freak out now?

It's now or never.

Any observers want to hazard a guess on the truthfulness of either sachertorte or Idle?

[NAF1138]

Originally Posted by Pleonast

It's now or never.

Any observers want to hazard a guess on the truthfulness of either sachertorte or Idle?

My guess would be that sach is telling the truth and Idle isn't buying it, but is also town.

This is based entierly on what I know about how they play, not on analysis of what they are actually saying. (I am starting to think that what people actually say in these games is a distraction, at best, and more frequently a full blown con job.)

Because it doesn't make sense for sach to not reveal more, but it is not out of character for him to hold that info back, just in case. And it is totally within Idle's townie character to attack him for such behavior.

[USCDiver]

I don't think Idle is the Witchdoctor, but I'll admit I can't read his posts. All he does is quote other players and make a one sentence comment after each quote. It's annoying.

[USCDiver]

Ah, here we go with the ALL CAPS!! from Idle Thoughts. And he's bitching about sachertorte posting his Role PM and saying it's AGAINST THE RULES!! even though he apparently didn't read the post from Pleonast saying it was OK.

[Drain Bead]

Well, that blows. I had a damn fine role in that game and got screwed by one vote.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Kat is scum. Her reasons for voting me (and not Idle, Rysto, or Zoggie, who "me tooed" me TWICE) were as weak as American beer.

If anyone wants to know what little I know, PM me and I'll respond.

[Pleonast]

Yeah, sorry you missed the deadline. One and Only Wanderers wasn't happen with his last-minute lynch either. It's the nature of the game, and with everyone being able to make role claims, a hard cut off is the only practical way to do it.

What do you think of sach and Idle?

[Drain Bead]

Originally Posted by Pleonast

Yeah, sorry you missed the deadline. One and Only Wanderers wasn't happen with his last-minute lynch either. It's the nature of the game, and with everyone being able to make role claims, a hard cut off is the only practical way to do it.

What do you think of sach and Idle?

I was relatively sure that sach was town due to the lack of counterclaim, but the disappearance and outright refusal to give one tiny piece of info made him very suspicious. I wanted to be 100% sure. I figured that I was also breadcrumbing my role quite a bit in there, but there are either some really bad players in there or the scum saw an opening in the last couple of days because the vote was split up. I'm not sure about Idle, but my guess up until he claimed was Freemason. After he claimed and sach countered, I honestly didn't know what to think. They BOTH started looking scummy to me. Sach's "new info" was entirely too convenient after the claim. I still don't understand why you wouldn't get that out there immediately, in your original claim. I've always been a supporter of the idea that the town should have as much info as possible. Once you've already roleclaimed, what does it help to hold onto that piece of info?

I definitely prefer the majority rule of voting rather than the plurality. Of all the players in that game, it took five votes to lynch? Ouch.

[Drain Bead]

Also...does anyone want to help me design/mod a Battlestar Galactica themed mafia game? I have a basic framework set up, but would like some help designing roles and balancing.

[Pleonast]

Originally Posted by Drain Bead

I definitely prefer the majority rule of voting rather than the plurality. Of all the players in that game, it took five votes to lynch? Ouch.

I went with plurality because there's four Sides. It's quite possible for the Town to be less than a majority and still not be game over. So plurality voting is needed to give the Town a chance in that case, otherwise it's too easy for scum to stall the lynch.

I put the tie-vote equals no lynch rule to force an actual decision, plus I wanted to keep a fixed Day/Night schedule.

Edit: I can help with the balancing. Pm or email me what you have, if you like.

[NAF1138]

Originally Posted by Drain Bead

Also...does anyone want to help me design/mod a Battlestar Galactica themed mafia game? I have a basic framework set up, but would like some help designing roles and balancing.

I will be happy to look at stuff too if you like. But I would most likely want to play in that game, so don't send me anything you think might be game breaking. But I can help give general advice on balance etc.

Also, be sure to PM JSexton, Sach and probably MtgMan over on the other boards and ask for help. JSexton helped with the Firefly game a whole lot. Before he joined the design process it was an overly complex unbalanced mess. He turned it into the very tightly balanced game it is now; still managing to keep the foundation that Kat and I had worked on in place. It is the same game that we developed, but now it works (rather well I think, when the Mods aren't bungling it up).

Sach was a big help to us as well and helped a lot in making sure our thoughts were clearly defined and that the loopholes were all tightened up.

MtgMan didn't help with our game, but he really seems to know what he is doing when it comes to game mechanics.

[USCDiver]

Pleonast, if a player's alignment is Cabal, what new 'role' information does the town get on the third Day reveal?

[Pleonast]

The Role will be revealed. The Cabal Side has only one Role, so it'll be Cabalist.

The delayed Role reveal (as opposed to the delayed Side reveal) hurts scum more than it hurts Town.

[USCDiver]

Well which faction are we calling scum in this game? Seems like there's several different anti-town groups.

[Pleonast]

I use scum to me all the non-Town Sides: Wolves, Undead, Cabal.

[Pleonast]

Two more dead on Night Two. What will the conversation focus on ToDay? I'm eager to see what Idle and sach do, myself.

[Pleonast]

Originally Posted by Pleonast

I'm eager to see what Idle and sach do, myself.

Apparently they bicker endlessly.

The Town is working itself towards another clueless speed-lynch. I don't think anyone wants to lynch sach or Idle, and yet discussion of lynch options is minimal.

[Stanislaus]

The more I read, the more I think Idle is scum manipulating the town into discussing irrelevancies. But man, they're making it hard on themselves. The percentage of players actually posting is tiny; they've got no strategy to avoid the claim-claim-lynch pattern they've set up for themselves; they're not trying to root out scum.

I know there are up to 3 investigator roles who want to keep out of sight and who should be able to swing things in town's favour if they build up enough info, and the Vicar will want to stay alive as long as possible too, but other roles need to get involved.

[Pleonast]

I need a sub. First to PM me gets the spot.

[Pleonast]

Originally Posted by Pleonast

I need a sub. First to PM me gets the spot.

And dotchan has graciously stepped in for MadTheSwine.

[Stanislaus]

I'd love to know how the various scum factions think they're doing. From out here it looks like the town is just too badly disorganised - but both the Wolves and the Cabal are one down early in the game. Assuming none of our unknown dead are Undead, that's the faction most clearly in the lead.

And in fact, if we do have Witches + Seer + Detective the town could be getting up to three investigations per night (although the Detective presumably won't get a result each night, and will tend to get the same Wolf in any case). If so, a Day 5/6 claim by Witches & Seer could flip things in the town's favour.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

I admit that I haven't been following the game, but I peek at it now and then. This is the first time the Forbidden thread has bubbled up on MPSIMS for me, so I'm subscribing. Yeah, yeah, I could've searched for it. But this is more spontaneous and exciting.

[Stanislaus]

It's almost as difficult to watch this game as it is to play it, so people don't comment very much. Plus, dead people are hanging on, hoping that they've been Witchdoctored - Hal and Rysto, for example, won't want to open this thread yet.