There are a subset of folks, amply represented on the Straight Dope, who don’t tolerate children. To them, a perfect world would be child free. They don’t get why anyone would want to have kids. Restaurants are ruined by the whining, crying and snivelling. Parents are inconsiderate yobs who allow their evil spawn to run wild, breaking items, smearing goo on goods, etc.
This attitude mystifies me more than a bit. I really don’t “get” their point of view. So I’d like some folks with varying degrees of this opinion to come in an enlighten me.
I’m particularly curious about how you managed to survive to adulthood without offending yourself.
I know that some people like this have pets, and don’t understand the distinction. Pets are like children, only generally much less intelligent or complex.
What would a world without children be like? It seems it would soon become gray and dull, and would be terrifically self-centered from the start.
Indeed. I think there are very few people here who would agree with your statement that ‘a perfect world would be child free’.
My issues with children are more about them being in appropriate places and/or behaving inappropriately. But my beef is with the parents, not the kids themselves.
First off, I think you’re setting up a strawman in your OP… and on review, I see Dominic and sandra_nz have already addressed it.
I think most people in their right mind (who aren’t medicated to the brink of unconsciousness) don’t feel comfortable in restaurants or other public places where kids are running around unsupervised, “smearing goo,” and wailing at the top of their lungs. I know I certainly don’t.
And while I don’t plan to have children of my own, that doesn’t mean I don’t understand why others would want to. I quite enjoy being a new uncle.
IANACH (I am not a child-hater. Actually, I find having kids around puts me in a better mood than otherwise), but I second the observation that it’s not the kids themselves that are annoying, it’s their parents.
Two year olds don’t buy their own movie tickets, and babies don’t insisits on staying in the restaurant of church when they cry. Kids are perfectly capable of making their own fun, but it’s the parents who buy them those stupid electric cars that block the jogging path. Etc., etc.
I agree. The problem is with parents who have built up a tolerance for their children’s [mis]behavior over the years and expect perfect strangers to have the same tolerance automatically.
You really haven’t set this up as a “debate” at all, you’ve set it up as an argumentative opinion about people who don’t care to have their lives negatively impacted by the misbehaviour, sometimes bordering on criminal, of other’s children. Perhaps you were looking for another forum?
I’ve never actually met someone like you describe. That said, I am someone who—though my day job is basically all about kids, and I interact with them often (and enjoy it a great deal)—also has zero desire to have kids, and does enjoy child-free dinners out. Obviously, there are different occasions for all of this. Do I begrudge nearby (noisy) child diners when I’m out to breakfast or lunch? No. A quiet dinner? Yes. And when I’m out at a bar? Absolutely. (I occasionally run across pubs to which parents bring their kids in the evenings; it makes no sense to me. I’m in the US, by the way—the culture in the UK, Ireland, Europe may be quite different, and more kid-friendly. Here, it just seems weird to bring kids to a drinking establishment.)
You may be correct. I don’t like having my dinner ruined by screaming kids, either. It’s just that it really doesn’t happen very often. I’ve never been out to a nice restaurant and been bother by children. They seldom irritate me in stores, or in other public places. But others see that meme in a thread and leap upon it. This indicates to me that some people are just more sensitive to this. This is what I’m truly trying to understand. I thought a debate type of discussion versus a bunch of random opinions might be a better format.
I don’t hate kids. I don’t love kids either, in the sense of thinking all kids are great. Like adults, I love some, dislike others, and simply have no use for the vast majority.
But as a rule, kids aren’t a problem. The problem is that the world is full of sucky parents who treat their kids like the second freakin’ coming, and refuse to consider that their childrens’ presence might be occasionally inappropriate, or that anything their children do might be Not Okay.
Parenting is a job, and sometimes requires one to be a big ol’ meanie. Far too many parents are unwilling to do the hard work required to produce people who understand both their own worth *and * the worth of others, that the world doesn’t revolve around them, and that unmitigated adoration is not simply their due in this life.
I don’t care to be around kids very often but I don’t dislike them. I’m just not that fascinated by them. I don’t go all soppy at the sight of a baby. I have done a lot of kid-sitting in my time, but I am always glad to hand them back to their parents later.
I can’t see myself spending much time in Kid World, either, as I don’t care much for theme parks, actively hate Chuck E. Cheese and most fast food places, and the thought of having to sit through a kid tv show or movie makes me sick. My definition of personal hell would be playing taxi-mom to a van full of kids and hauling them to soccer games.
I don’t begrudge others in the slightest. If it brings them joy, that’s fine by me.
Years ago, when we were vacationing in England, we found that children were 100% EXCLUDED from ALL pubs. This may have changed, but when we ignorantly walked into a pub with our two young daughters, it was like bringing a droid into the Mos Eisley cantina. Apparently at that time anyway, the establishment could have had the liquor permit lifted for violating the “no children in pubs” law.
I know a few people who, while they don’t actively hate children, derive no pleasure from their company, and just know they would be terrible parents, so choose not to have any. They are much happier in adults-only situations.
My impression is that for upper-class families in centuries past, young children were considered a nuisance and a bother to the parents, who turned them over to nannies, governesses and boarding schools to be housebroken and civilized.
I myself like children very much – I voluntarily had two of my own. I consider child abuse to be one of those crimes that should be punished by torture, possibly death. However, I also Detest having to endure undisciplined and uncontrolled children. I wish there were children and no-children zones in restaurants and airplanes, just like there used to be smoking and no-smoking sections.
Children are entertaining and sometimes say profound things, I can’t imagine anyone not liking them. As for tolerance, yes, it is necessary. I don’t like patrons who talk down to the waiters or send their food back for minor causes. But I tolerant them. Life is about tolerating others, and I think if you can’t do it you should eat at home.
I kind of feel like I stepped in the middle of an argument, too. Why *should *I like all kids? You tell me. I don’t like all adults. I adore my niece. I like most of my cousins’ kids. I see no reason why I should have any particular fondness for other people’s kids. I feel as though kids should be seen and not heard as far as I am concerned; I didn’t have them so I am not particularly interested in tolerating them. I don’t think kids should be nonexistent. And most places do welcome kids, more than not. I just wish more places were kid-free without the parent offendarati getting all upset.
A few of our friends are obsessed with their babies/children to the point where other parents will tell them to knock it off already, as they’re sick of it too! One coworker of my husband brings in new photos almost daily, and he gets insulted if you don’t coo over each new angle of his baby blowing spit bubbles or squinting at the constant flash. His wife has said she misses having a new baby - theirs is only 7 months old - and keeps trying to recruit their friends into persuading her husband to want another baby ASAP. (He’s an overly-proud papa but knows his limits.) Lady, not only do we not think your baby is the center of the universe, we’re not interested in participating in the production of another one, thanks.
I don’t feel any particular attraction to or interest in children, so things like baby showers are very uncomfortable to me. Everything’s centered around the upcoming baby or other people being expected to have more babies (especially the “games” you’re expected to participate in), and I am childless by choice. I also don’t like holding babies; I feel uncomfortable doing so. Baby smell isn’t pleasing to me, etc. So my interactions with babies are making some little cooing remarks at baby, smiling, and trying to avoid anything more concrete than that. To me, children get interesting once they’re school age, but I don’t put up with temper tantrums or anything else. No biological clock. No “aw, how adorable” about kids doing something “cute.” For me it’s not that I hate kids, I’m more actively disinterested in them unless I happen to know them - it’d be like cooing over some random adult doing something “cute” and how odd that would seem.
I would be a terrible parent. Everyone says it’s different when it’s your child, but I’ve seen enough counterexamples to prove otherwise. Too many parents are insulted at any attempts to rein in their kids, make them use inside voices, and so on. If the behavior isn’t acceptable for an adult, it shouldn’t be for a child (with certain playground-type exceptions of course).
