Governor Spitzer caught with his pants down

[ivylass]

Apparently, quite literally.

Why do they always think no one will find out?

[KSO]

The information is changing minute by minute so I won't bother linking to it, but CNN.com is reporting that a wiretap recorded him arranging for a prostitute himself.

[Balance]

Gamepolitics.com has an article on the matter, since Spitzer tried to push anti-game legislation. GP provided a handy quotable piece from the guy:

Originally Posted by Spitzer

Media content has gotten more graphic, more violent and more sex-based… Currently, nothing under New York State law prohibits a fourteen-year old from walking into a video store and buying… a game like ‘Grand Theft Auto,’ which rewards a player for stealing cars and beating people up. Children can even simulate having sex with a prostitute…

It couldn't happen to a nicer hypocrite.

[ivylass]

Is he resigning? The line "I must now dedicate some time to rededicate my trust to my family," while a bit clunky, could be construed that way, but I don't think he's "officially" resigned.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Originally Posted by Balance

Gamepolitics.com has an article on the matter, since Spitzer tried to push anti-game legislation. GP provided a handy quotable piece from the guy:


It couldn't happen to a nicer hypocrite.

[apologist] Well, as long as he wasn't paying his hookers with public funds... [/apologist]

[teela brown]

$5,500 an hour? Yow.

[Bricker]

Originally Posted by Balance

Gamepolitics.com has an article on the matter, since Spitzer tried to push anti-game legislation. GP provided a handy quotable piece from the guy:


It couldn't happen to a nicer hypocrite.

Now, wait a second. I've just posted a GD thread in which I'm critical of Spitzer, but where is his hypocrisy here?

In the quote you offer, he's decrying a video game in which CHILDREN can arrange a prostitution liason. It's not inconsistent of him to inveigh against that and still believe consenting adults should be permitted to hook up with hookers.

And while he prosecuted prostitution rings as Attorney General, you cannout confuse his acts as a professional, enforcing the law of his state, with his personal belief.

[hajario]

Originally Posted by Balance

It couldn't happen to a nicer hypocrite.

I wouldn't say that that statement was hypocritical. He had issues with children simulating sex with a hooker.

[BMalion]

Just another example of Life imitates Sharkey's Machine.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Originally Posted by Bricker

And while he prosecuted prostitution rings as Attorney General, you cannout confuse his acts as a professional, enforcing the law of his state, with his personal belief.

While your ability to separate the personal from the professional is laudable, I haven't noticed you doing this for Republicans/preachers who demonize homosexuals on one hand while secretly engaging in illicit backdoor action themselves on the other.

Quid est distinctus?

[Chefguy]

What is it with Democrats and their dicks, and Republicans and their wallets? Dems can't keep their pants zipped and Repubs can't keep their pockets shut. The whole system needs a fuckin' enema.

[Captain Carrot]

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

While your ability to separate the personal from the professional is laudable, I haven't noticed you doing this for Republicans/preachers who demonize homosexuals on one hand while secretly engaging in illicit backdoor action themselves on the other.

Quid est distinctus?

Well, for one thing, vehemently preaching hatred for gays is not by any means required for clergy, whereas if you're practicing law for the government, you pretty much have to prosecute the cases. To overstretch an analogy, Uncle Sam doesn't particularly care what you believe as long as you do the job (though that's less true nowadays), while the Pope most definitely does want to know what you believe, since it should be church doctrine.

That sound about right to you, Bricker?

Originally Posted by Chefguy

What is it with Democrats and their dicks, and Republicans and their wallets? Dems can't keep their pants zipped and Repubs can't keep their pockets shut. The whole system needs a fuckin' enema.

A lot of Republicans can't keep their pants zipped either, as shown by David Vitter and Larry Craig, among many, many others.

[Bricker]

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

While your ability to separate the personal from the professional is laudable, I haven't noticed you doing this for Republicans/preachers who demonize homosexuals on one hand while secretly engaging in illicit backdoor action themselves on the other.

Quid est distinctus?

Um... are you suggesting in this post that I am giving the Democrats an easier time than I am giving the Republicans?

In any event, there's a distinction between an attorney, whose job it is to advocate for his client -- in this case, the people of the state of New York -- and a preacher, who is announcing a moral rule and urging his listeners to follow it.

The latter case is fairly described as hypocrisy. The former is not.

[BMalion]

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

...Quid est distinctus?

ullamne subuculam geris?

[Wilson]

Can I change my user name to Client 9?

[NurseCarmen]

Dude is an idiot and a hypocrite. As much as I'd like that to be the bastion of one political party, it ain't.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Originally Posted by BMalion

ullamne subuculam geris?

Semper ubi sub ubi.

Originally Posted by Bricker

Um... are you suggesting in this post that I am giving the Democrats an easier time than I am giving the Republicans?

In any event, there's a distinction between an attorney, whose job it is to advocate for his client -- in this case, the people of the state of New York -- and a preacher, who is announcing a moral rule and urging his listeners to follow it.

Ironic, isn't it, that you of all people should be accused of favoritism toward the Democrats?

In this case, though, yes. You know very well that state Attorneys General can pretty much pick and choose what sort of entrenched crime to ignore and which to crack down on. Spitzer apparently made a point of going after hookers, or at least large-scale hooking, while engaging the services of hookers himself.

Don't get me wrong; I love the guy, and frankly I couldn't give a crap what he does with his free time. I just think you can make a very good case that he's a hypocrite.

[Balance]

Originally Posted by Bricker

Now, wait a second. I've just posted a GD thread in which I'm critical of Spitzer, but where is his hypocrisy here?

In the quote you offer, he's decrying a video game in which CHILDREN can arrange a prostitution liason. It's not inconsistent of him to inveigh against that and still believe consenting adults should be permitted to hook up with hookers.

The character in the game is not a child, the game is not written for children, and the game is marked with an ESRB rating that indicates that it is not suitable for children (M--equivalent to an R rating for movies). He is decrying a video game which depicts an adult arranging a liaison with a prostitute. Bashing a piece of fiction for depicting something that you actually do smacks of hypocrisy to me.

I take no issue with the bulk of his professional record--I'm not familiar enough with it to criticize it--nor do I particularly care about his private pastimes. I just find his attempt to wrap his political aims in the now-stained and -tattered "Think of the Children" banner contemptible.

[Mongo Ponton]

I guess that whole "Art Vandalay" thing didn't work out.

[Flander]

The exchanges between RNATB and BMalion remind me of that scene in Tombstone.



Translation please.

[Jackmannii]

Originally Posted by Bricker

...he's decrying a video game in which CHILDREN can arrange a prostitution liason. It's not inconsistent of him to inveigh against that and still believe consenting adults should be permitted to hook up with hookers.

Is hooking up with hookers like pressing up against prostitutes?

Yuh, it would only be hypocrisy if Spitzer was caught arranging virtual gaming hooker liasons. Or betting on the outcome.

Besides, prostitution involving consenting adults is legal in N.Y. State, isn't it?

From Bricker's GD N.Y. Times link: "Though his signature issue was pursuing Wall Street misdeeds, as attorney general Mr. Spitzer also had prosecuted at least two prostitution rings as head of the state’s organized crime task force.

In one such case in 2004, Mr. Spitzer spoke with revulsion and anger after announcing the arrest of 16 people for operating a high-end prostitution ring out of Staten Island.

“This was a sophisticated and lucrative operation with a multitiered management structure,” Mr. Spitzer said at the time. “It was, however, nothing more than a prostitution ring.”

Uh, if that isn't hypocrisy, kiddies, what is?

[Chefguy]

As is usual with these sorts of things, it isn't the fact that he's been frequenting a hooker, it's the fact that he's a high-profile politician who's been frequenting a hooker. It's a career killer for someone who's probably been doing a decent enough job. At least he admitted it, rather than denying it, so we don't have to go through that whole charade; but the hypocrisy will do him in.

On another note: I've been with some pretty frisky women in my life, but NONE of them was worth $5500 an hour, or any part thereof.

[PunditLisa]

Sequential thread:

"Governor Spitzer caught with his pants down"
"I'm a member!"

Another politician being naughty.

[Count Blucher]

Why couldn't he just hit on boys in airport bathrooms like any other self-respecting politician? Or find a good lobbyist and settle down?

[OttoDaFe]

Originally Posted by Count Blucher

Why couldn't he just hit on boys in airport bathrooms like any other self-respecting politician? Or find a good lobbyist and settle down?

'Cause he's a Demo(n)crat.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Originally Posted by Flander

The exchanges between RNATB and BMalion remind me of that scene in Tombstone.
Translation please.

Ask, and ye shall receive...

Quid est distinctus?

"What's the difference?"

ullamne subuculam geris?

"What are you wearing under that shirt?" (I'm not 100% on "shirt" - I've never seen the word subuculam before and had to look it up, and definitions vary)

Semper ubi sub ubi.

"Always wear underwear" (literally, "always where under where")

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally Posted by Jackmannii

In one such case in 2004, Mr. Spitzer spoke with revulsion and anger after announcing the arrest of 16 people for operating a high-end prostitution ring out of Staten Island.

“This was a sophisticated and lucrative operation with a multitiered management structure,” Mr. Spitzer said at the time. “It was, however, nothing more than a prostitution ring.”

Uh, if that isn't hypocrisy, kiddies, what is?

"Revulsion and anger" is a subjective characterization of Spitzer's words. I just see his words as a statement of fact.

This is a worthless "gotcha" story, in my opinion. I can't see that Spitzer did anything wrong. Like I said in a couple of other thread, he should tell the press to bite his ass and soldier right on as Governor.

I said the same thing about Larry Craig, by the way. Politicians need to stop legitimizing this garbage by apologizing for their private lives.

[Leaffan]

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

"Revulsion and anger" is a subjective characterization of Spitzer's words. I just see his words as a statement of fact.

This is a worthless "gotcha" story, in my opinion. I can't see that Spitzer did anything wrong. Like I said in a couple of other thread, he should tell the press to bite his ass and soldier right on as Governor.

I said the same thing about Larry Craig, by the way. Politicians need to stop legitimizing this garbage by apologizing for their private lives.

Bullshit. Elected officials who use your tax money to enact or defend laws must be held to a slightly higher standard than Joe Sanitary Engineer. Of course he did something wrong: he's the fucking Governor and he was engaged in illegal activities. I'm no perfect specimen myself, but paying for sex with a prostitute is completely unimaginable when a mouse, an internet connection, and my right hand would suffice.

[Siam Sam]

They're reporting on BBC that he paid $4000 for a hooker last month. Words fail to express my shock. By my calculations, that would buy him at least 83 hookers over here.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally Posted by Leaffan

Bullshit. Elected officials who use your tax money to enact or defend laws must be held to a slightly higher standard than Joe Sanitary Engineer. Of course he did something wrong: he's the fucking Governor and he was engaged in illegal activities. I'm no perfect specimen myself, but paying for sex with a prostitute is completely unimaginable when a mouse, an internet connection, and my right hand would suffice.

First, I disagree that elected officials are obligated to any "higher standard" (whatever that means) and secondly, I don't think there's anything wrong with prostitution so I can't agree that he failed any "standard."

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

They're reporting on BBC that he paid $4000 for a hooker last month. Words fail to express my shock. By my calculations, that would buy him at least 83 hookers over here.

At the prices being quoted, I can't help but want to see pictures. I mean, how good can one slice be? These chicks must be movie star hot and able to back it up. If he can afford, you can't really blame the guy. What's the point of holding a high elected office if you can't cash in with the primest of tail?

[Muffin]

$5,500 per hour? Boy, did I pick the wrong profession.

[Leaffan]

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

First, I disagree that elected officials are obligated to any "higher standard" (whatever that means) and secondly, I don't think there's anything wrong with prostitution so I can't agree that he failed any "standard."

Well, it doesn't matter at all what you think: it matters that it's an illegal activity. Huge difference.

[PunditLisa]

I guess when you're used to paying $3500 for a toilet seat, $5500 for a hooker doesn't seem out of line....

I don't think Spitzer is necessarily hypocritical. Stupid and arrogant, yes. And if he expensed to the state any of the hotel rooms, and, um services rendered for these little private parties, then I'd say he's not only unethical but he should be tossed in the pokey.

Once again, I'm amazed that these men can cajole their wives to appear with them at the press conference where they give their sordid confessions. I can't imagine a scenario where I'd appear with my husband while he told the world that he paid $5500 to fuck another woman. And, frankly, I'm not sure what would piss me off more: the other woman or the $5500.

[Count Blucher]

Originally Posted by OttoDaFe

'Cause he's a Demo(n)crat.

Any word on whether this Federal wiretapping was linked at all to those warrantless wiretaps the administration has needed to persue its 'war on terror'? The ones that Congress refused to grant the Bells blanket immunity over?

I'd be shocked if those were abused to garner favor/advantage over political opponents, especially in an election year...


not.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally Posted by Leaffan

Well, it doesn't matter at all what you think: it matters that it's an illegal activity. Huge difference.

It's a misdemeanor and a victimless crime. Who gives a shit? It's illegal like a speeding ticket is illegal. The only difference is that speeding might potentially endanger other people.

[threemae]

Where does Spitzer's money come from? I suspect that $4-5,500 prosittutes are not readily affordable on a state attorney general or governor's salary.

[Starving Artist]

Originally Posted by Count Blucher

Any word on whether this Federal wiretapping was linked at all to those warrantless wiretaps the administration has needed to persue its 'war on terror'? The ones that Congress refused to grant the Bells blanket immunity over?

This from ABC News: "The federal investigation of a New York prostitution ring was triggered by Gov. Eliot Spitzer's suspicious money transfers, initially leading agents to believe Spitzer was hiding bribes, according to federal officials." Link.

[Leaffan]

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

It's a misdemeanor and a victimless crime. Who gives a shit? It's illegal like a speeding ticket is illegal. The only difference is that speeding might potentially endanger other people.

Perhaps the fact that he used taxpayers money puts a different slant upon things now?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally Posted by Leaffan

Perhaps the fact that he used taxpayers money puts a different slant upon things now?

Cite that he used taxpayer money?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally Posted by Starving Artist

This from ABC News: "The federal investigation of a New York prostitution ring was triggered by Gov. Eliot Spitzer's suspicious money transfers, initially leading agents to believe Spitzer was hiding bribes, according to federal officials." Link.

Well he wasn't hiding bribes so there shouldn't be a problem.

[Starving Artist]

Originally Posted by Leaffan

Perhaps the fact that he used taxpayers money puts a different slant upon things now?

I don't recall reading that he was using taxpayer funds...only that the sums of money he was moving around made the bank suspicious. I believe (so far anyway) that the sums being moved around were his own.

He apparently had to put down a deposit of several thousand dollars in advance, pay for the girl's train ride to town and back, her cab fare, hotel room and mini-bar (don't know about turn-down service), plus he followed the agency's suggestion that he give the girl an extra $1,500 on top her remaining fee so he'd have 'credit' established for his next visit.

One would think the governor of New York would have sufficient juice to be able to get a hooker without having to put down a deposit first.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally Posted by threemae

Where does Spitzer's money come from? I suspect that $4-5,500 prosittutes are not readily affordable on a state attorney general or governor's salary.

Spitzer is a multimillionaire independent of his salaries. He came from a wealthy family.

[Leaffan]

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

Cite that he used taxpayer money?

OK. I see that might not be the case now. My mistake.

My (personal) feelings of someone in a public office who is on one hand challenging public morality while not practicing it in private is a little disconcerting, not to mention hypocritical.

As for prostitution being a victimless crime, I'm not sure. Perhaps at the $5,000 range you're right. Still, for someone in public office, I still say the bar should be set higher.

YMMV.

[Dewey Finn]

The funny thing is that the tri-state area is now three for three with gubernatorial scandals; first Connecticut Gov. John Rowland went to prison after contractors paid for work on his house, then New Jersey Gov. Jim McGreevey, who resigned after putting a male aide/lover in a job for which the guy was completely unqualified and now this.

And I hope we'll get more details on the $5,500 prostitutes. At least a picture so we can see what that much money buys you.

[kittenblue]

Originally Posted by PunditLisa

And, frankly, I'm not sure what would piss me off more: the other woman or the $5500.

I can answer this one: the money. How I know this about myself is for another thread, but you can trust me on this.

We can't begin to know how this has affected their marriage, or when he told her and how much time she's had to adjust to this. But don't criticize a wife for forgiving her husband, or at the least for not kicking him to the curb in the first 5 seconds.

[Starving Artist]

Originally Posted by Dewey Finn

And I hope we'll get more details on the $5,500 prostitutes. At least a picture so we can see what that much money buys you.

Lots of pics and details here.


ETA: Photos safe for work; text is relevant to subject.

[Radegast]

Folks -- Read the various articles. Unfortunately for Gov. Spitzer, arranging for a prostitute for services that cross state lines involves the Mann Act, and gets one into the realms of trafficking in persons. He could easily go to jail.

[PharmBoy]

As a guy who works for a company that fell victim to one of Sir Eliot's witch hunts several years ago, I can't tell you how much I am enjoying watching this sanctimonious bastard twist in the wind.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally Posted by Radegast

Folks -- Read the various articles. Unfortunately for Gov. Spitzer, arranging for a prostitute for services that cross state lines involves the Mann Act, and gets one into the realms of trafficking in persons. He could easily go to jail.

He did not by any stretch of the imagination "traffic in persons." She travelled of her own free will and he didn't personally transport her (what a sexist and in insulting 19th century concept that is anyway). There's no way any Mann act charges are going to stick. I don't see that they really have anything on him except misdemeanor solicitation.