In reading this thread it struck me how there is the taken for granted assumption that men wanting to have sex with teenage girls is just plain skeevy and weird. To be specific I’m talking about men who are attracted to 13- 18 year old girls, not young children.
Personally I’ve always liked women the same age range I am or slightly older, but that’s just my taste. Older men chasing after younger girls always seemed to be kind of desperate to me, but I never looked upon them as perverts. Is my preference for women who are at least 40 or older any more perverse?
Other than laws that set the age of consent to some specific number (typically 16 to 18) what is is especially or specifically biologically deranged or perverse about a virile man desiring to have sex with a young teenaged girl who is post menarche? I understand it might be poor social form to desire teenagers in a modern industrial-technological society where young people are increasingly infantilized into their early twenties, but is it really a sign of some sort of mental imbalance to be attracted to fertile young girls?
Because it’s exploitative. A grown man who wants to have sex with another grown man is just two consenting adults doing their thing. Or a grown man who wants sex with a grown woman, or a woman with a woman. It’s adults - peers - consenting to whatever they’re both into.
The problem with adults going after teenagers is that the teenagers aren’t their peers - this isn’t an equal relationship, so there can’t really be meaningful consent. Teenagers are stupid - not their fault, we all go through it, but they are. And they’re also taught to look up to adults as authority figures. An adult trying to get them into the sack is playing on both those things - and that’s what makes it skeevy.
The problem is that the law has to draw a line, and call it the “age of consent”. So if the age of consent is 16 years, on her 16th birthday a young woman can legally have sex with a middle-aged man, but the day before he might go to prison for that. However, she looks and acts much like the same person aged 15 years and 364 days as she does when she’s legal. So there’s nothing perverse about finding her sexually attractive on both days. However, most older men finder her attractive will just say to themselves, “She’s very nice – I wish I were a lot younger, and she was just a bit older.” – and that’s as far as they will go, because they know it’s both legally wrong and crossing a moral dividing line.
A 21 year old guy and a 17 year old girl, not skeevy in my book.
A 40 year old guy and a 15 year old girl, blecchhh. The older I get, the younger these teens look.
I would not be shocked to find out that most guys feel physical attraction to inappropriately young women - but I do think it is creepy when older guys ACT on an attraction to an inappropriately young woman. In modern society, we all have situations where we are attracted to a certain person but can’t act on it for various reasons.
The biggest reason these relationships are creepy is that unequal power balance exists between a teenager and an adult.
Even very “mature for their age” teenagers are likely not at their full potential for adult decision-making. The part of the brain that guides judgment (the frontal lobe) does not fully develop until the age of about 25. So when a 17 year old dates a 30 year old, you have one person who is operating on a totally different level than the other one, and that is a situation that very well could lead to manipulation or taking advantage. Since a manipulative relationship could truly ruin an adolescent’s life (for example, leading to unplanned pregnancy or derailing career/education plans) I think we as a society owe it to these kids to scrutinize if someone is taking advantage of them.
Another reason it is creepy when old guys date younger girls is that it tends to make me wonder what’s wrong with the guy that he can’t have a relationship with a woman who is his peer.
It would be perfectly legal in my state if I (late 20s) wanted to date a 16 year old boy - but I have no interest in doing that because I have nothing in common with a 16 year old’s lifestyle or mental state (even though some 16 year old boys are pretty attractive!). Likewise, I would expect a mentally healthy 30 year old man does not have a lot of common ground with a 16 year old girl (even if he finds her physically attractive).
From observing several men I know who have gone the route of dating teens, it seems like the types of guys who often wind up dating teenagers are often quite dysfunctional in relationships. Sometimes it IS just that the guy is very immature and enjoys acting like a teenager rather than an adult. That is arguably the most benign reason for an adult to be in such a relationship (though I still think the adult has an unfair power advantage due to simply having already lived through their teen years and gaining experience from that).
However, in many situations that I’m familiar with, the guy ends up dating a teen girl because she’s more willing to put up with bullshit in relationships due to her inexperience. It takes some experience to recognize what is and is not okay in a relationship and to know when to put your foot down.
So that’s why I am very suspicious of guys in those kinds of relationships.
Incidentally, my boyfriend is actually a year younger than I am, but thankfully we’re both working adults who are in a similar place in life. That’s why I do not think of myself as preying on his naive youth.
Not inherently perverse, but maybe culturally perverse.
Throughout much of our history, thirteen was marryin’ age, at least for girls. Our modern notion of “childhood” didn’t really develop until the Victorian era.
I’d say it’s a case-by-case thing. Can be creepy and skeevy as hell. Can be downright evil and out-and-out manipulation. Can be cute and sweet. And can be it’s actually the teenager exploiting the grown-up. Or mutual exploitation. Or true love.
For an interesting chart, take a look at this. (age of consent throughout the world)
In the States, we are one of the few places in the world where we have ages of consent of 18 (not all states, but a fair number of them are set at 18 including California), and apparently the only place in the “Western” world with such a high age of consent. In Europe, 14/15 seems to be the norm.
I think our views on this have definitely been shaped by the social mores and legislation which don’t necessarily line up with biology.
Came in here to say this. Our repulsion against this is probably almost entirely culturally-conditioned.**
Biologically, it makes perfect sense for men of all ages to be attracted to younger (and presumably, more fertile) women, even if in today’s society those women are still clearly “girls.”
What I find interesting is the more recent cultural shift towards sexualizing older women, i.e. MILFs/Cougars/etc. Not too long ago, a woman over 30-- let alone 40 or gasp 50-- was considered over the hill and past her prime. There’s been a slow but important shift in male attitudes toward this, however.
If I could venture a theory, just as men are biologically attracted to younger women, they must also be biologically attracted to older women, i.e. the delaying of menopause via hormone therapy and the ability of women to be more reproductively successful in later years than before may have something to do with it. Mix that with other sexual & social changes-- the Pill, financially independent women-- and presto.
**IMO more so than homosexuality-- I know some would disagree, but I find nothing homophobic about physical repulsion to homosexual acts, just as I find nothing heterophobic when homosexuals feel the same way towards heterosexuals. There are cultural modifiers to this sensitivity, but I’m not sure this can be completely eradicated in most men and women.
What pisses me off is that the older I get the more I feel like I’m walking through a bakery and I see delicious cakes all around me, but no, I can’t eat any of those, because they are meant for younger people only. Can’t touch them, only look! Some people even say you are not even supposed to consider those cakes to be delicious. What kind of creepy old guy likes delicious looking cakes anyway!
/rant
This situation is not restricted to age difference though. Even if it is natural to be physically attracted to your friend’s pretty wife, it is socially unacceptable to do anything about it.
So, just because physical attraction is present, society determines that some pairings are a bad idea (e.g. young & old, or you & friend’s wife) and therefore tries to label them as “skeevy” and “creepy” to prevent people from acting on the attraction.
At the risk of being pitted myself. I’m in a situation now where a teenage girl has made it very clear that she wants to have sex with me. I admit to being tempted and yes, I have fantasized about the possibility. If that makes me weird or a perv then so be it.
Reasons I ultimately won’t go through with it:
It does squick me out mainly because I don’t want to feel like a dirty old man.
I’m not about to take her to my house. Way too much potential for unwanted drama and embarrassment if the neighbors found out.
I’m not going to take her to a hotel. In my mind I may as well get a teenage prostitute.
My daughter is the same age as her. ( see #1 )
Not that I’ve given this much thought at all though…
Considering that pregnancies are more difficult and dangerous for young teens than adults, and the babies of young girls are far more likely to suffer health issues, does it make sense biologically to be attracted to someone who is not yet full grown? Keep in mind too that girls are often not full-grown until several years after their first period.
FTR, I find it plenty skeevy when chickenhawks go after teenage boys (or girls), and in my experience they’re similar to the hetero men who exclusively pursue much younger partners – they like to play teacher to someone who’s easily influenced and easily impressed and who’s much less likely to call them on their bullshit, sexual or otherwise, than someone with more life experience.
Briefly acknowledging the beauty of someone much younger than yourself, of either sex? Not skeevy. Prattling on about it to people or hitting on them? Usually skeevy.
Yes, age of consent seems so very arbitrary when the law can change from one day (a birthday) to the next, but if you simply cannot wait to have it stuck to you or to stick it yourself, you are probably not mature enough to be in a relationship with someone who likely needs a little guidance. And an increasing number of 9 year old American girls are getting their periods – biology be damned, they’re not for lusting after.
