Batman Vs. Nite-Owl II, both are Prepared, who'd win?

[MacTech]

I just picked up a copy of the Watchmen DVD, and I was quite impressed, I was expecting another formulaic "BatSpiderSuperMan" movie clone, boy was I wrong....

.....I could have done *without* the Full Frontal Doc. M views though....

I tended to empathize with Rorshack out of all the characters, we have very similar views on criminals....

I was thinking, Nite Owl II has a similar M.O. to Bats, lots of gadgets to make up for the lack of actual Super abilities, so....

in a battle, who would win, Bats or NO II, both are appropriately prepared

Battle 1; NO II Vs. Bats, direct conflict between the two of them to see who is superior
Battle 2; direct competition to see who can stop the most criminals

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Battle 1 is one of those "What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?" type scenarios: The universe collapses. Duh.

Battle 2 I cannot comment on, as I have zero knowledge of the Watchmen series.

[The Other Waldo Pepper]

Originally Posted by MacTech

in a battle, who would win, Bats or NO II, both are appropriately prepared

Battle 1; NO II Vs. Bats, direct conflict between the two of them to see who is superior

I'd give it to Batman; the whole point of the "if he's prepared" cliché is that he excels at rigging up specialized counterweapons tailored for particular opponents. Nite Owl doesn't really show any signs of doing that; he's just about having general-purpose gear on hand. (It's excellent general-purpose gear; he could plausibly win a no-prep-time fight against Batman, if neither of them is expecting anything when it suddenly goes down and one guy is behind armor plate ready to blanket the area in sonics or whatever. But he's not really a Batman-style tactician.)

Battle 2; direct competition to see who can stop the most criminals

It'd have to be a pretty unusual situation.

[astro]

Night Owl has some excellent tech, but he's somewhat paunchy and doesn't really appear to be in the same league as Batman re being a fighting machine.

[RealityChuck]

Night Owl is too old to take on Batman one-on-one -- he's in his forties*; while Batman never seems to age to 30. Batman just has to wait until he tires out.

Though it strikes me that Night Owl never gets into a hand-to-hand fight, anyway.

*He's implied to be so in the comic; the reference is to Ozymandias, but due to the structure of the scene it also refers to Night Owl.

[Marley23]

Nite Owl II is a softie. Batman isn't. Advantage: Batman.

[Revtim]

NO2 wasn't really very impressive, Batman would wipe the floor with him.

[enalzi]

Well, we never really saw Nite Owl in his prime, so it's hard to call. Of course, no one beats Batman on the internet so...

[Krokodil]

NIght Owl's DCU counterpart was Ted Kord, who actually gave Batman a good fight once. Generally speaking, bet on Bruce Wayne.

[Johnny Q]

Keep in mind that Bruce keeps himself in top condition and knows seventeen different ways to kill you with his pinky(not that he'd actually use them) Dan's kinda let himself go a bit and seems to be more of a brawler when the time comes to get his knuckles bloody.

Going by the numbers, the Flying Mouse takes it, but probably not easily.

[runcible spoon]

Also, if Batman's prepared, he could just crack impotence jokes, and Night Owl would cry like a little bitch with a skinned knee and shit.

[MacTech]

So, the general consensus is that Bats wins, and NO would be better off competing against Der Fledermaus? (The Tick animated series)

[The Falling Reverend]

If we're talking about NO from the movie, yes he will have his feathers plucked. NO from the novel gets the tar beat out of him until he remembers the laser pen in his pocket.

[shy guy]

Comic book Nite-Owl does tend to carry some fairly lethal gear on him. The Owlship is equipped with a flamethrower, and he attacks Ozymandius with some sort of hand-held laser weapon.

But yeah, he's out-of-shape and out-of-practice. Even in his prime he was much more gadget-based than Batman is. He is a competent hand-to-hand fighter (remember him and Silk Spectre beating up a group of street punks on their own, after being caught unaware), but Batman is one of the most accomplished fighters on his planet.

Another big plus for Batman is that he's used to dealing with foes who are vastly more powerful than he. In his world, he fights supervillains with actual superpowers (Clayface, Killer Croc, Poison Ivy) and all sorts of menaces alongside the Justice League.

Nite-Owl's only experience with a superpowered individual is Dr. Manhattan.

Also, note than when Nite-Owl does get in a fight with his physical superior - even though he gets the drop on him and has backup in the form of Rorschach - he is thoroughly trounced within seconds.

[The Other Waldo Pepper]

Originally Posted by The Falling Reverend

If we're talking about NO from the movie, yes he will have his feathers plucked. NO from the novel gets the tar beat out of him until he remembers the laser pen in his pocket.

NO from the movie has one as well -- it's just that OH MY GOD HE'S FLINGING A CHAIR AT ME, and then it's gone, same as in the novel. (If anything, though, I'd figure the movie version of NO is shown to be a better martial artist than his comic-book counterpart: dropping multiple opponents in rapid succession, effortlessly breaking people's bones, all of it.)

[Munch]

A better match for Batman would be Ozymandius, who's in peak physical condition.

[muldoonthief]

Originally Posted by Munch

A better match for Batman would be Ozymandius, who's in peak physical condition.

Yeah, Ozy took out Nite Owl and Rorschach, using nothing but cutlery, and didn't even break his monologue while doing it.

[Wargamer]

Originally Posted by muldoonthief

Yeah, Ozy took out Nite Owl and Rorschach, using nothing but cutlery, and didn't even break his monologue while doing it.

So Ozymandius is The Blue Raja????? Well, THAt explains a lot.

[The Falling Reverend]

Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper

NO from the movie has one as well -- it's just that OH MY GOD HE'S FLINGING A CHAIR AT ME, and then it's gone, same as in the novel. (If anything, though, I'd figure the movie version of NO is shown to be a better martial artist than his comic-book counterpart: dropping multiple opponents in rapid succession, effortlessly breaking people's bones, all of it.)

I just threw in the dvd and I'll be damned, he does have a laser pen.

But here is the real question, NO got stomped by Onymandias, is Batman faster than Ozy?

[The Other Waldo Pepper]

Originally Posted by The Falling Reverend

But here is the real question, NO got stomped by Onymandias, is Batman faster than Ozy?

Batman, AFAIK, isn't fast enough to sight and catch a speeding bullet. Ozymandias does it some time after casually batting another bullet away with a handy ashtray.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by The Falling Reverend

But here is the real question, NO got stomped by Onymandias, is Batman faster than Ozy?

There are tons of incarnations of Batman and only one, really, of Ozymandias, but I would say the Oz man is quicker and more agile, with Batman perhaps stronger. In turn this is making me wonder what Ozymandias vs. The Joker would look like.

[Number]

Ozymandias kills half the people in the world as part of an elaborate plot to keep the Joker from killing the other half.

The Joker just laughs.

[Superhal]

Try to read the comic book. Everybody except Manhattan sucks.

I found the movie gave everybody quasi-superpowers that they never were supposed to have.

Batman would destroy them all, except Manhattan.

[Hodge]

Look at it from a psychological angle. Even if we assume Batman and NOII have comparable gear and are equally physically fit (a big assumption), it would still be no contest for the B-Man.

Why? Because Batman's on a MISSION. One to which he's fanatically devoted. He. Just. Won't. Stop...Ever. On the other hand, NOII is just in it for the thrills and to get his freak on. When Nixon banned masked heroes, he was perfectly content to mothball the costume and get complacent.

Batman vs. Rorschach would be a much more interesting matchup. Both are badass and equally obsessed. And while Bats has the cool tech, R doesn't have any moral qualms about playing dirty or offing his opponents.

[Superhal]

Originally Posted by Hodge

Batman vs. Rorschach would be a much more interesting matchup. Both are badass and equally obsessed. And while Bats has the cool tech, R doesn't have any moral qualms about playing dirty or offing his opponents.

Hmm, interesting point. While I think Batman would still beat R, R represents the extremes of human endurance. If any particular person fought with R's conviction, how many fights would they lose?

[mobo85]

Originally Posted by Hodge

Batman vs. Rorschach would be a much more interesting matchup. Both are badass and equally obsessed. And while Bats has the cool tech, R doesn't have any moral qualms about playing dirty or offing his opponents.

I agree. I'd be much more interested in a Batman-vs.-Rorschach matchup too- although such a matchup would probably end with Batman dead or seriously injured.

[Larry Borgia]

Nite Owl 2 and Rorschach are the two halves of Batman: The Millionaire crime fighting playboy with superscientific tech, and the revenge obsessed vigilante psychopath. Thus the only fair fight would be Batman against the old Rorschach-Nite Owl team up.

[Orbifold]

Originally Posted by mobo85

I agree. I'd be much more interested in a Batman-vs.-Rorschach matchup too- although such a matchup would probably end with Batman dead or seriously injured.

...

...

Are you mad?

Rorschach is just a guy with a mean streak and under-developed morals. That's all he's got. If being mean, determined, and morally stunted was enough to kill Batman, one of his rogue's gallery would have offed him long ago.

[ZeusRockape]

This might be quite an eye opener. Ive always been fascinated by both characters, generally finding Rorschach to be a more sinister and realistic approach on Batmans character.

http://media.photobucket.com/image/b...ch_sig.jpg?o=1

I find it pretty funny xD

[Idle Thoughts]

Having seen the Watchmen movie (although never reading the comics), I'd say Batman could probably beat any of them, with the exception of Dr Manhattan, probably.

[Bakhesh]

Nite Owl's fighting style would be hampered when halfway through the fight, he gets an erection

[Kamino Neko]

Originally Posted by Idle Thoughts

Having seen the Watchmen movie (although never reading the comics), I'd say Batman could probably beat any of them, with the exception of Dr Manhattan, probably.

Ozy could probably give him a run for his money, but, yeah, most of the Watchmen characters would fall pretty fast.

On the other hand, scenario 2 from the OP? I'd actually give that to Dan. Bruce would probably end up getting distracted by one of his big name enemies, while Dan would just go out and smack around gang bangers and muggers, as usual. Bruce'd win on quality, sure, but Dan'd kick his ass in quantity.

[Chastain86]

There is no Batman equivalent in the Charlton Comics characters used in "The Watchmen." As someone else said, the DC equivalent for Dan Dreiberg was Ted Kord, the former Blue Beetle. The archetype equivalent of Rorschach was The Question. Neither Blue Beetle nor The Question are powerful enough to defeat Batman. I'm not certain Ted or The Question would even stand a fighting chance against Tim Drake or Dick Grayson, much less the man that taught both of them.

Ozymandias against Batman provides a better fight, predominantly because both men are in peak physical condition. However, Ozy is essentially a slightly younger and more spry version of Rah's Al-Ghul, who Batman has fought and defeated many times.

Doctor Manhattan is so ridiculously overpowered that he'd be the only Watchmen character that Batman might have problems defeating -- but, as we saw, Manhattan is only as strong as his mental faculties. I'm not sure how to take advantage of that mental fragility (aside from employing something similar to Scarecrow's fear gas) but you can bet that Batman would use everything in his power to gain the figurative high ground on a man that could level planets.

[Johnny Q]

Keep in mind that Manhattan is a strict determinist and only does what he sees himself doing in one particular timeline. He feels obligated to go through the motions and in the words of Stephen Colbert "he believes the same thing on Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened on Tuesday."

Then again, if one of my stray thoughts could change the nature of reality, I'd probably try to keep my mind on track too.

[Typo Negative]

When Silk and NO went into the prison to spring Rorschach, they were both kicking the asses of rioting convicts with apparent ease. I don't think he is quite the creampuff some say.

BUT, he hung it up when the government outlawed masked avengers. Batman, at least in some versions, was always outside the law. Advantage of Will to Batman.

[The Other Waldo Pepper]

Originally Posted by spooje

When Silk and NO went into the prison to spring Rorschach, they were both kicking the asses of rioting convicts with apparent ease. I don't think he is quite the creampuff some say.

In the comic, NO and SS are each shown dropping a grand total of one guy -- neither of whom is actively rioting -- during that encounter; the emphasis is more on how the bulletproof Owlship can swoop past armed guards and blanket the area with sonics to incapacitate folks who aren't wearing ear protection like our heroes.

[Alka Seltzer]

If they fought in Batman's universe, Batman would easily win, due to the laws of narrative causality. Batman is a grade A hero, while Nite Owl is just a tourist. If they fight in the Watchmen universe, all bets are off, as there Batman would mearly be an unhinged obsessive.

[It's Not Rocket Surgery!]

Originally Posted by MacTech

I tended to empathize with Rorshack out of all the characters

OOOH! OOOH! Mr. Kotter! Ozymandius is gonna blow up Manhattan!

[Tom Scud]

Originally Posted by Alka Seltzer

If they fought in Batman's universe, Batman would easily win, due to the laws of narrative causality. Batman is a grade A hero, while Nite Owl is just a tourist. If they fight in the Watchmen universe, all bets are off, as there Batman would mearly be an unhinged obsessive.

Well actually, in the Bat universe, it would depend on how early in the story it was; the laws of narrative would heavily favor the newcomer if the fight took place in the first 30-40%, say.